Chicks On Lit discussion

Our December book will be Ask Again, Yes by Mary Beth Keane
Ask Again, Yes
All are welcome to join this discussion.

I finally started this a few days ago but I won’t say too much as I’m not sure if others have started yet. I have been busy recently and not read a lot so I’m not sure if I was taking time to get back into reading but I didn’t enjoy the prologue and fist couple of chapters. It didn’t really capture my interest and I found it dragged a bit. I thought I’d made a mistake requesting this book but then I soon found myself getting sucked into the story. I am about 30% in. If anyone else has begun we can discuss some more - there is a lot to think about so far.

I hope to start tonight. Thanks for the encouragement to keep reading if the opening pages don't grab me.

I started it last night. I am a little bit past the 1/3rd mark. The two young characters are considering college. What got you thinking in this story so far? What would you like to discuss?

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I appreciate that the author is taking on the topic of mental illness in a family. I think that the way the family tries to hide what is going on was realistically depicted. I expected more issues to show up in Peter. How do you live with a psychotic mother, live through your mother's incarceration, have your father abandon you and stay so even and placid? I realize that he is channeling much of his negative energy into his running, but still, I am not sure Peter is completely realistic. He is very likable and so is Kate, but I don't think they are completely realistic. I am seeing the reader being set up for a Hallmark ending, but maybe I am wrong. Everyone is just too sympathetic and likable. I was surprised to see Brian walk out of Peter's life. I saw him as a more caring father prior to that moment. It seemed out of character. I was surprised that Francis walked across that street into that potentially violent situation so carelessly. We already knew that Anne had taken Brian's service gun. Police say that domestic violence calls are the most frightening and dangerous. He knew that Anne had serious problems, even to the point of being taken away in restraints. He was an experienced cop. It made no sense to me that he did not take more precautions. It also made no sense that Brian would keep the gun loaded and insufficiently secured knowing his wife's mental health issues.

(view spoiler)[ I agree with so much that you said. I found it incredible that Francis went over to the house. As they'd mentioned about working a rough beat and the bad things they saw at work, coupled with, as you said, knowing the previous issue with Anne and taking Brian's gun. Both Francis and Lena had made comments about being aware there was something 'wrong' with Anne. It made no sense to me that he wouldn't wait for the police to arrive.
I also agree the way they have handled mental illness is realistic. I know in my own family years ago especially (but even to a degree more recently) it was common to ignore these kind of issues or play it down as something else and not serious. Obviously there was much less awareness and it was a much more taboo subject years ago. It made me sad though reading it. The times when Peter was taking care of things in the house, it wasn't particularly awful but just sad that he wanted to be out with friends but his mum was in bed and he was making dinner. However, it seemed very realistic.
I agree but I am thinking that maybe more will come out as they get older? they do seem to be handling everything rather well. I think though Kate and her relationship with, I've forgotten his name...the guy who is older at her in school and is going off to college. I think in some way this is perhaps showing she is not dealing with things as well as we think. As she seems to not really be interested in him and getting pushed along in doing things she doesn't really want to. It's not super dramatic but I did think maybe this is something simmering under the surface.
I hope to read more tonight. (hide spoiler)]

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Kate's ambivalent romantic relationship seems less about the trauma of her father's injuries and more about hanging on to her love of Peter. She keeps waiting for him to return into her life. Of course, that relationship has been frozen at this idealized moment, the first blush of admitted love, this sense that they would overcome all the opposition of the adults together. It was a bit Romeo & Juliette. In the real world, that declaration of 14 year old love would be tried by all sorts of adolescent angst. Most early teen loves don't last the test of time as both individuals mature in ways that surprise themselves and as new people come into their orbit. But, for Kate and Peter, they are carrying around this idealized and untarnished image of the other and every other person will fall short of that ideal. So, Kate has the normal physical and emotional drives to date that every other teen has. The most eligible guy in the high school picks her. Her social circle encourages the relationship. And the guy is quite nice and considerate. But she won't let herself fall completely for him because it will be a betrayal of Peter. Her taunting of the little neighbor girl struck me as a bit odd. On one hand, I understood that the author was trying to depict the depth of the commitment to Peter. But, this is not a character that was shown as mean before that. I understood her desire to get that shoebox, but I did not understand the taunting.

I finished the novel and enjoyed reading it. I liked the authors use of different characters telling their stories. I agree that Brian is worthless as a father and I was shocked that he didn’t do anything to protect his son or seek help for his wife when he clearly knew both needed him.
I don’t want to say more until everyone is finished, but I was pleasantly surprised by this book as there is a little more depth to it that I expected.

I was not surprised that Brian did not get help for his wife since this is taking place in the early 70s, isn't it? People often did not talk about mental health back then. Resources were less available than they are today. Actually, I am surprised by how humanely Anne is treated after the incident. There is some mental health issues in my immediate and extended family. Institutional care for those with mental health diagnoses were often scarey. People blamed themselves if a family member displayed psychotic symptoms. And I am not aware of any services available for a child of a parent with problems. As long as he was not being abused, was clean and fed, society did not intervene. Therapists were more rare than they are today and I am not sure most working class families could have afforded that even if they were not too embarrassed to get it.

It’s so interesting b/c I feel like more people were institutionalized back then than now (especially housewives) for mental health issues. Both of my grandmothers had “nervous breakdowns” and one received electro-shock therapy for depression. I am skeptical about the whole thing b/c they both seemed perfectly normal, happy and engaged, to me.
I may be way off base, but feel Brian could have committed his wife if he wanted in that day and age. Maybe he was worried about cost or damage to his reputation. In retrospect, maybe he had no interest in being responsible for Peter’s upbringing and until it was out of his control, was happy to let his wife parent Peter.
I agree, In my opinion, Kate romanticized her relationship with Peter and readily responded to him when he re-initiated contact vis sending a letter how many years later. She didn’t even seem mad at him for not contacting her earlier.
As for her parents relationship, I think the mom is truly a saint like figure. More later…

I am slightly beyond the half way point. I see that I am 20 years off in the time frame. This all happened in the early 1990s. That 20 years does shift how I see the resources available to Brian. By the 1990s, there was a move to deinstitutionalize mental health patients. ECTs had moved out of favor. School counselors were more available. At the same time, insurance was not covering a full range of mental health services. She could have gotten some visits with a psychiatrist, but Peter would not have been covered for child therapy nor would Brian have had access to much. Plus, the stigma against mental health was and still is pretty strong. I am not of Irish descent, so I don't know how much the cultural background influenced the perception of psychosis. Although I did not pick up on it during Peter's childhood, George has just told Peter that his father was an alcoholic. How much did this play into not addressing Anne's problems? Was he masking the problem with drink? He obviously can't cope with life which is obvious when he runs. He seems to need as much therapy as Anne. I am still amazed at how humanely Anne is treated. I had a much more negative image of incarceration of mental health patients. And Anne is a typical patient with psychosis. She won't take the meds. And she is smart; she knows how to hide it. Even in hospital settings with trained professionals who know how to monitor patients that won't comply, many find ways to avoid the drugs. I want to be compassionate toward those who carry the burden of this awful disease. At the same time, it is pretty scary to think that someone with potentially violent episodes, with paranoia and delusions could be caring for vulnerable sick people.

Irene, I agree with you. I went back and looked at dates and Kate was born in 74. For some reason, I thought all this was happening in the 60’s.

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I am 3/4 of the way through the book and I hope to finish tonight. Brian's alcohol abuse seems to be playing a bigger role in Peter's life than Anne's psychosis. And the little glimpse into Anne's childhood implies that Anne's issues are the result of childhood trauma. But Anne looks more like a person suffering from schizophrenia than the lingering impact of childhood trauma. I almost wish the author had not stuck that in. It makes mental health look like it is the result of trauma rather than an organic illness. Of course, mental health problems can have root in both just as physical health can have roots in both.

Finished. The ending was a bit sweeter than I generally like.

I liked the overall message of forgiveness and the idea that grace is found in all of us, but it is annoying when everything is all tied up in a neat little bow and everyone is a hero.

I agree. Even Brian gets redeemed in the end as he leaves everything to Anne and Peter. And Anne and Peter share their inheritance with the new girlfriend. I watch families split over inheritances and it does not involve abandonment or the new girlfriend. I thought Peter's reconciliation with his mother was a bit too easy. Shouldn't there have been some anger, some distrust, some recriminations, especially when she refused to see him? I realize that the author wants the reader to understand that much of Anne's behavior was the disease, not her malicious or selfish choices, but still.... Peter is a kid who has lost both parents, his school, his home, pretty much everything and he continues to make the heroic effort to visit his mother who refuses to see him. An adult would be expected to struggle with negative emotions in that situation, let alone an adolescent. I am also surprised that Francis is more concerned about Brian's alcoholism than Anne's psychosis when it comes to Peter as a husband. I was also wondering how a person who had to leave an alcoholic spouse in order to protect him/herself and their kids would read this novel. It implies that Kate's fidelity was what enabled Peter to overcome his addiction. Love never gives up and it triumps in the end. But far too often, love is not enough to enable an addict to overcome their addiction.

Hey guys, sorry I havent chatted much, the time has flown past. I finally finished this the other day. To be honest, I found it a bit dull and I kept struggling to pick it up and continue, so I took a while to finish. I really found the story idea interesting but for me I felt it didnt have too much depth. You would get a part of a characters story, thinking and feelings and then it would go to another character but it would've jumped forward in time and you just got told what had happened to the others and didnt get to experience it fully with them, if that makes sense. So I found that I didnt feel a great deal of interest in any of them or what happened. One small example is Kate's mum gets cancer and then it's never mentioned again. I felt the alcoholism story was brushed over and I personally didnt feel it caused a great harm to their relationship or life in general, because we didnt really get caught up in it. When Kate dropped him off at therapy or when he returned I didnt feel particularly emotional or worried either way. I also agree with Irene that it would've been interesting to see the mental illness from a view point of being that, an illness rather than a result of something bad happening to her in her childhood. And the happily every after, and everyone getting along felt unrealistic. It was ok but overall I think I'm not the best at choosing books! :)

*sorry when Kate dropped him off at rehab, not therapy!

I agree with much of what you said. There were some deep themes in this book, but they were treated too lightly. Not only was Peter's alcoholism not shown in its impact on the family, neither was Brian's . I would not have known that Brian was an alcoholic if his brother had not told Peter. We had a discussion earlier about no one getting help for Anne until it was too late, even after she is taken by ambulance from the store. But we could only guess at what was behind that: shame, fear, ignorance, selfishness, irresponsibility? We never watch enough of Brian with Anne or with Peter to know what is going on with him and what motivates him. The same was true of the gun shot and the cancer. Parents get critically ill, spend months in debilitating conditions, the other parent gives care and all goes on. But when a parent can't parent, it has a profound impact on the kids. And, in the case of Francis's injury, it also consumed Mom completely leaving the girls de facto orphans for a while. But we don't see any impact on them; life just goes on for them. These characters all have major life storms swirling around them and they all seem to just float slightly above the waves, only enduring a little bit of spray.