Victorians! discussion

Eight weeks already, and we’re at the end of our group read of The Old Curiosity Shop. And while our ending is to an extent tragic, which we had some hint of when reading the last couple of weeks (in fact even earlier), in typical Dickens style we also get a satisfying end with the villains getting their just desserts and every little thread neatly wrapped up.

At the opening of the segment, Richard Swiveller wakes up to find that he hasn’t been simply sleeping but very ill and on the brink of death for 3 whole weeks and it is only thanks to the Marchioness’s constant and diligent care that he has survived.

But this illness has also meant another problem, for just before he had fallen ill, Dick had meant to go to poor Kit’s aid. But these complications have meant that Kit has not only been tried but convicted and sentenced to transportation (a rather horrible sentence, for many who faced it saw great hardships, torture, and even death, even when the ‘crime’ they were convicted of was not that severe and at times when none was committed at all). But luckily, Swiveller has recovered before it is too late, and from the little Marchioness has definite proof that the Brass siblings had conspired against Kit. It is once again the Marchioness who helps by fetching Abel Garland so that he can be made aware of the circumstances. I was glad that Kit’s suffering and the heartbreak that his family and friends would have suffered took place off the page for while we can well imagine it, this approach was very subtle and well done.

The Garlands and the Notary, Mr Witherden are made aware of the truth, and this brings much-needed aid for poor Dick in the form of a lovely hamper, and also a plan to tackle the Brass siblings. But as Dick indicates, Sally Brass is probably far harder to ‘break’ than her brother, but the Garlands, Mr Witherden and the single gentleman still make an attempt. Luckily for them, Sampson Brass is far weaker and confesses all, even making the statement they need in writing, while Sally makes her escape.

Kit thankfully is released, and reunited with his family, the Garlands, Barbara and also the pony Whisker. He also realizes finally that Barbara cares for him and him her, so there is some good news in that direction. At the end of course, the two are married and go on to have children.

Meanwhile Sally Brass has informed Quilp of the danger he is in, and he makes plans to evade capture. But this once, his schemes work against him, and he falls into the water and loses his life. What did we think of his end? Fitting, or too easy an escape? Mrs Quilp remarries, and hopefully this time, will have a happier married life, with Mrs Jiniwin well away.

Dick Swiveller and the Marchioness have some good news for Dick has been left a reasonable income by his aunt and he is able to provide an education for the Marchioness whom he names Sophronia Sphynx; he also goes on to marry her when she grows older--interesting that she turns out to be roughly the same age as little Nell. We never do get confirmation who the Marchioness really is, through there are some hints left open for us to interpret.

Coincidence plays a role and Nell and her grandfather’s whereabouts are discovered again, as the ‘Bachelor’ in the village turns out to be Mr Garland’s brother while we also finally learn who the mysterious single gentleman/lodger is. Once again, a journey is made, and Kit is taken along, but the single gentleman and Kit are too late, for when they arrive, Nell has already died, while her grandfather refuses to accept this keeping vigil at her grave till he himself passes away.

Nell’s exertions and worry for her grandfather, and attempts at keeping him away from temptation put her through heavy trials, and these finally proved too much for her. Her grandfather’s heart breaks and he too dies, but I wonder if even then he realizes that it was he who was responsible for what she went through? But on Nell’s account, we may at least feel some relief for even though she went through much hardship and finally lost her life, she had at least found a comfortable home, got her grandfather to safety, and was able to live her last days in peace surrounded by friends.

So what did you think of this final instalment? And what about the book as a whole? Which characters did you like best? I hope everyone enjoyed reading it!

I am so happy for Dick and the Marchioness. This is the story of Dick and Kit, in the same way as it is Nell's. The transformation and moral growth of Dick is one of the best things in the book and Dick is the character I liked best and I will remember.

It is very sad that everything Nell did, every fight, every privation, all the cold and hunger, were to arrive to this, to end in this way. But this is life, Dickens says, and I think that the page about the loss of our beloved ones is one of the best of the book. 

Except for this sad event, everything else did wrap up nicely, also Quilp's body is found so poor Mrs. Quilp knows for sure that he is dead and she has the possibility to marry again.

Daniela wrote: "I am so happy for Dick and the Marchioness. This is the story of Dick and Kit, in the same way as it is Nell's. The transformation and moral growth of Dick is one of the best things in the book and..."

I agree Daniela - Dick needed good people around him to bring out the goodness in him. I hadn’t realised that the Marchioness was so young, probably younger than Nell. They way that Dick invested his new annuity in the Marchioness’ education and welfare rather than squandering it on himself shows how he had matured and gained the courage to do what was right. They ended up together which for me was even more heartwarming than Kit and Barbara - but I was also happy for them and the way the two families supported each other.

Quilp and the Brass siblings were finally vanquished, probably in a rather less dramatic fashion than I was expecting. Nevertheless Quilp was claimed by the murky Thames and Dickens’ evocative description of his final resting place in the swamp was a satisfactory conclusion. It was interesting to hear the rumour about the stake and the burying where four roads meet, raising Quilp even higher into the realms of the supernatural.

Nell’s story was tragic but probably very typical of that time and I finally understood why Dickens decided upon such an ending. As he himself said, Nell’s death was hard to take but the people around her were already describing her as an ‘angel’ even before she died, as if she did not really belong to a world inhabited by humanity and all its evils.

I agree with both of you Daniella and Trev, with good people around him, Dick's better side came through--in fact we did see bits of compassion in him coming out all through but being with people like Fred Trent and Quilp could hardly have allowed these qualities to develop.

Like you Trev, I hadn't realised the Marchioness was so young; I guessed around Nell's age, slightly younger since at the end of six years' education she was 19.

Nell's death was something that was portended from early on I think; the meeting with the school master and the little scholar's death; the frequent exertions and extreme conditions Nell had to bear, and then of course all the references to angels and such

Lady Clementina wrote: "Mrs Quilp remarries, and hopefully this time, will have a happier married life, with Mrs Jiniwin well away.
."

I was worried that Mrs. Quilp might marry Fred or another undesirable gentleman who just wanted her money. She needed a great deal of consolation after the horrors of Quilp and to quell her feelings of shame when forced to connive with Quilp over Nell. I don’t think being rich would be enough, she also needed someone who showed some genuine love. I would have liked to know more about the man she married and how he was chosen.

I think this last part really highlighted some of Dickens' strength as a writer. Chapter 71, which describes the travelers finding the grandfather was especially powerful. Although you suspect that Nell is dead, I kept a tiny bit of hope when the grandfather described has as sleeping. And the end of the chapter -- with the repetition of 'she was dead' felt like the tolling of a bell. Very moving.

Although I was saddened by Nell's death, it wasn't unexpected with all the foreshadowing. Also, from the beginning of the book, Nell is described as this perfect person, not only in appearance, but also in manner and action. The other characters had their odd quirks -- the Marchioness, Dick, Kit, and even the pony -- which really made me like them better, not only for their odd little flaws, but the way they developed in the story to become heroic. I'm glad that their endings all took good turns.

Lady Clementina -- thank you so much for moderating this discussion. You gave such excellent summaries and did a fabulous job encouraging comments and discourse.

We will never forget the pony :)

Me too, Daniela. He was good fun🐴🐴

Thanks so much Julie🙂

Glad you enjoyed the read.

I agree, Nell's death was indeed foreshadowed from pretty far back. Her 'perfection' in every way might have been a clue (likening her to an angel) but Dickens does have most of his heroines bordering on the angelic.

Re the other characters, they do have more shades and give us much to think about in their actions, growth and adventures

Thanks so much Lucia🙂 I can understand your reaction to Nell. Victorian fiction has its share of such characters, and I think more so in instances where a character was based on a real-life character who had died young as in this case; they are cast as especially angelic. While it wasn't the case for me with Nell since Dickens did get me to feel for what she was going through, there are characters like her who do have the same effect on me including little lord fauntleroy.

I agree on Dick's development. In fact all the additional cast were perhaps much more interesting and gave us much to think about as well.