Play Book Tag discussion

A group of us will begin reading The British Are Coming: The War for America, Lexington to Princeton, 1775-1777 in February. If you want to join, you are more than welcome.

This will not be a rushed read, due to length and content. We will be discussing along way. Please start your conversation box off with a heading indicating which chapter/section you are commenting on.

Example: Prologue/Chapter 1

We do this so that anyone who has not reached that point in the book can avoid reading it.

Got my copy! I should be able to start in a few days.

Yay! I am ready to start. I am glad we are not pushing through too quickly.

I will be ready to start as well. Will read this and another book at the same time.

I downloaded this when I saw your schedule. I would love to read it in little portions.

I am excited so many want to join in! Feel free to comment whenever you have something to say. Just be sure to head your post as noted. Joy, Steven and I read his Liberation Trilogy and as we all read at different paces this format worked well for us.

Will start today.

Prologue: This is going to be a slow read for me but a fascinating one. I am so glad we went ahead and decided to do it. Thank you, JoAnne. The parts about King George III and how the books begins with him was a bit of surprise but it works. George’s library must have been amazing with its 65,000 books. For anyone interested, there is a recently published biography about him and from the author interview, which I listened to the other day, it sounded excellent. It comes in at over 700 pages so quite a commitment if one is interested. Here is the link, The Last King of America: The Misunderstood Reign of George III

Just a couple of tidbits I have found thus far – using squirrel tails as paintbrushes – I did not realize I have plenty of paintbrushes scrambling about among my backyard tree branches. Also, that it took over 2,000 mature oaks to build one large English warship – hard to imagine all the craftsmanship that went into its construction.

Also, there is Atkinson’s wonderful way of relating history and use of language. He called Lord North’s ability to remember things, as an “adhesive memory.” We all could use one of those.

Prologue

Steven, I was pleasantly surprised to see the English side of things. I had read that Atkinson took this approach but was not expecting so much. I like seeing the other sides view and I have a feeling that will continue.

As always Atkinson's story telling and writing is stellar. He makes it all come alive.

Prologue

I agree that Atkinson is a splendid writer. I loved the opening with George III. It sets up the context for the coming Revolution, and the reasons behind it in passages such as:

George’s resolve helped his ministers rally around three critical assumptions, each of which proved false: that most colonists remained loyal to the Crown, notwithstanding troublemakers in Massachusetts capable of inciting a rabble; that firmness, including military firepower if necessary, would intimidate the obstreperous and restore harmony; and that failure to reassert London’s authority would eventually unstitch the empire, causing Britain to “revert to her primitive insignificancy in the map of the world,” as a member of the House of Commons warned.

Joy, thought this was an excellent summary as well. I have cut and pasted it so can have it on hand down the road.

I have always been interested in Dr. Joseph Warren and glad to see Atkinson discusses him early. If I am not mistaken, he was killed during the Battle of Bunker. I have always wondering if he was not killed so early on in the war, would he have become one of the more famous of our Revolutionary War heros. Someday I am going to read a good biography of him.

Yes, he was killed at the Battle of Bunker Hill. I know he was highly respected. I need to learn more about him.

Steven wrote: "Joy, thought this was an excellent summary as well. I have cut and pasted it so can have it on hand down the road.

I have always been interested in Dr. Joseph Warren and glad to see Atkinson disc..."

Steven, I wonder if you have read Philbrick's Bunker Hill: A City, a Siege, a Revolution. He discussed Warren quite a bit in that one. Of course it is not a biography.

I've finished the prologue and was happy to see Ben Franklin in it.
Quite a different representation than McCullough gave him in his biography of John Adams.

Yes, I did read Philbrick's Bunker Hill back in 2015 and that is where I first came across him. I had sort of forgotten about him over the years and this refreshed my memory.

I don't think any of the books I have read, on the Revolution, have mentioned Warren, or else I do not remember him. He peaked my interest though. I know this will be one of those books where I learn about people I did not have prior knowledge of.

I have Bunker Hill on my TBR. Good to know that others have read it and liked it.

Prologue

I have just finished the Prologue and found it very interesting. I haven't read that much about the Revolutionary War since high school and usually choose European, and particularly British history, when reading history or historical fiction.

I realized I had a very negative opinion of King George III. I'm assuming it comes from the American point of view that all my books usually were written from. He seems utterly baffled at the attitude of the Colonials. I did appreciate learning more about his family history and marriage. I thought the recruitment of soldiers going to America was funny. "Each regiment was permitted to take sixty women, twelve servants, and eight-six tons of baggage". And my husband thinks I pack too much!

I plan to read a chapter or two every day but I'm already feeling anxious to get back to it.

I should get to this after this weekend. It has been a busy busy work time for me.

One thing I really appreciate are the maps - they are terrific. The lack of maps, or not very well drawn ones, is often a criticism I have of history books. Atkinson has done a great job here.

If I ever get to Boston, I am going to make copies and bring them along with me so can compare them with what is on the ground today.

Steven wrote: "One thing I really appreciate are the maps - they are terrific. The lack of maps, or not very well drawn ones, is often a criticism I have of history books. Atkinson has done a great job here.

If..."

I agree with you about the maps. I am a map person and need to envision with a map where I am. When reading fiction, I always look up on a map about the location.

So I was thrilled to see the maps included in this. I liked that there was a map of the British going to Concord and Lexington and then one for their retreat.

Also a fan of a good map. As I was reading the Concord/Lexington section I flipped to that map every few minutes.

Joanne wrote: "Also a fan of a good map. As I was reading the Concord/Lexington section I flipped to that map every few minutes."

I'm doing the same thing with Bunker Hill part.

The maps are also in the e-book - ability to zoom in is awesome!

Joy D wrote: "The maps are also in the e-book - ability to zoom in is awesome!"

Oh, lucky you-I was thinking a zoom-in feature would have been so much better!

I can remember when I was younger, those wonderful maps one would get with a National Geographic magazine subscription. I would spend hours with them. I think at one point, I had collected probably 30 or 40 of them. Wonder what happened to them. Lost I guess along the way of life.

I love maps in books! I have been known to pull up maps for books set in real places. I even keep my Plan de Paris and London A to Z at hand.

On the other hand, bad maps in fantasy sci fi drive me crazy. The one in The Name of the Wind doesn't even seem to relate to the book. Of course I once heard Rothfuss comment on how much he hates maps and begrudges having to create one for his books.

I have been wondering about Atkinson's use of the epithet "Jonathons" I had never heard or read about this name for the Rebels. Anyone else in th dark about this one? Of course I had to research and this is what I found:

The term dates at least to the 17th century, when it was applied to Puritan roundheads during the English Civil War.[3] It came to include residents of colonial New England, who were mostly Puritans in support of the Parliamentarians during the war. It probably is derived from the Biblical words spoken by David after the death of his friend Jonathan, "I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan" (2 Samuel 1:26). As Kenneth Hopper and William Hopper put it, "Used as a term of abuse for their ... Puritan opponents by Royalists during the English Civil War, it was applied by British officers to the rebellious colonists during the American Revolution".[4]

A popular folk tale about the origin of the term holds that the character is derived from Jonathan Trumbull (1710–85), Governor of the State of Connecticut, which was the main source of supplies for the Northern and Middle Departments during the American Revolutionary War. It is said that George Washington uttered the words, "We must consult Brother Jonathan," when asked how he could win the war.[5] That origin is doubtful, however, as neither man made reference to the story during his lifetime and the first appearance of the story has been traced to the mid-19th century, long after their deaths.[6]

The character was adopted by citizens of New England from 1783 to 1815, when Brother Jonathan became a nickname for any Yankee sailor, similar to the way that G.I. is used to describe members of the U.S. Army.

Thank you JoAnne. I saw this as well but failed to look it up. I would go with the first one, derived from Puritan Roundheads, as it makes the most sense. Now I have to go look up why the Puritans were called Roundheads during the English Civil War. (ha)

Well it is good to know that I was not alone in not knowing this!-

Thanks for the info! I had no knowledge of the term "Jonathans," either.

I have heard of roundheads - the name originated from their haircuts, sometimes even shaving the tops in the manner of monks.

I am about half way through chapter 5.

Although I know that Washington entered a real mess when he
came to Boston, it still always makes me shake my head when I read about it again. I love this description of Atkison's

He quickly saw that unlike the fantasy army that existed in congressional imaginations-grandly intended as Washington's commission declared "for the defense of American liberty and for repelling every hostile invasion thereof-" this army was woefully unskilled; bereft of artillery and engineering expertise..

It seems our first congressional representatives lived in a dream world, as some of our present day occupants do.

I am not always sure where I am in the e-book, but am currently reading about Washington.

I loved this description of Washington - Atkinson has a wonderful way of providing the basic info while also illuminating a personality:
"He was a talented administrator, with a brain suited to executive action, thanks to a remarkable memory, a knack for incisive thinking and clear writing, and a penchant for detail, learned first as a young officer and then practiced daily as suzerain of his sprawling, complex estate on the Potomac River at Mount Vernon. His fortunes, personal and pecuniary, grew considerably in 1759 when he married Virginia’s richest widow, the amiable and attractive Martha Dandridge Custis. Over the years, their convenient business arrangement had become a love match."

Prologue: Finally starting. As I read about King George III and his procession to review the fleet in the prologue, all I can think and hear is:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ERYukmb...

Well I did see it live 3 times and watched the film a few times....

Prologue: I am enjoying what I'm reading and hope to wrap up my day in a few minutes, eat some dinner, and settle in to a few hours reading it. Tea has been dumped, and the Brits are passing Intolerant Acts, and all is tensing up.

I loved this bit:
There was much they did not know or understood imperfectly: that the American population, now 2.5 million, was more than doubling every quarter century, an explosive growth unseen in recorded European history and fourfold England’s rate; that two-thirds of white colonial men owned land, compared to one-fifth in England; that two-thirds were literate, more than in England; that in most colonies two-thirds could vote, compared to one Englishman in six; that provincial America glowed with Enlightenment aspiration, so that a city like Philadelphia now rivaled Edinburgh for medical education and boasted almost as many booksellers—seventy-seven—as England’s top ten provincial towns combined.

I can't help but contrast to France on the brink of the French Revolution and the chaotic Reign of Terror that followed. I remember from my French history classes in the mid-70s how the success of the Americans in rebelling against the Brits as well as the writings of the American leaders (and of course French Enlightenment writers like Diderot who also inspired the Americans) served as inspiration for the leaders of the French Revolution. But of course it rebelling against a royal rule and nobility on the same ground as the rebels was a whole different revolution.

But I found those statistics quite interesting and had not knwn them before.

I also enjoyed the brief description the Stamp Act on p. 8 -- you know there are still tax stamps on deeds and stock certificates in NYS. In fact, the history of these tax stamps dates from the Dutch in the 17th Century. According to NYS history, after the Brits took the colonies from the Dutch, the Crown gave each state of the colonies the authority to impose such document taxes. For the states this was a key source of revenue, and the ability to impose a stamp tax and collect it was jealously guarded. No doubt the colonists were outraged at the Crown's sudden change.

Chapter 2 – There is a prophetic quote from Noah Parkhurst (1775), “Now the war has begun and no one knows when it will end.” This holds true for most wars I think: Afghanistan 2001 – 2021; Vietnam War 1955 – 1975 (includes French all the way till the fall of Saigon; the Korean War 1950 – right up till today in many ways; WW I 1914-1918; WW II 1939-1945, The American Civil War 1861-1865; Russia – Ukraine 2014 – present; If we knew how long wars would be fought, would we still fight them?

I am in Chapter 5, about page 160, hardback edition (the Canadian Campaign). Just wondering how far along everyone else is.

Theresa, Certainly did not know about the NYS stamp tax. A little bit of excellent trivia. When is NYS going to revolt again? (sorry - couldn't resist)

Steven wrote: "If we knew how long wars would be fought, would we still fight them?"
You're right - this is the case in all the war-related books I have read. I remember quotes from the American Civil War saying "it will be over by Christmas" (it started in April 1861 and was over in April 1865). The same thing happened when British troops went off to fight in WWI.

Steven wrote: "I am in Chapter 5, about page 160, hardback edition (the Canadian Campaign). Just wondering how far along everyone else is."
I am also in Chapter 5 (it took me a while to find outsince I have a Kindle that is packed with books and is very slow to respond). I tend to go more by percentages completed.

I've reach chapter 9, in part 2. I found the Canadian campaign really interesting.

Steven wrote: "Theresa, Certainly did not know about the NYS stamp tax. A little bit of excellent trivia. When is NYS going to revolt again? (sorry - couldn't resist)"

Yeah, we are overdue for a revolt! We didn't even protest mask or vaccine mandates. We do great protests though for causes like Black Lives Matter and Me Too. NYC even has a vegan mayor!

Prologue: Has everyone picked their sinecure yet? My first choice is master of the jewel office. Master falconer is a close second.


Further, the king had purchased additional loyalty by sprinkling lucrative sinecures and patronage appointments among members of both houses, including eleven grooms of the bedchamber, a master of the jewel office, a master falconer, an usher of the exchequer, rangers of the royal forests, seven equerries, and various masters of the harriers, buckhounds, and staghounds.

Steven wrote: "Theresa, Certainly did not know about the NYS stamp tax. A little bit of excellent trivia. When is NYS going to revolt again? (sorry - couldn't resist)"

Also, the stock certificate stamps are actual stamps at 5 cents per share with glue on the back that you affix to the front of a certificate being transfered and then 3 lines are penned through to cancel the stamps affixed. Quite ritualistic.

Deeds no longer get a physical stamp, not even one using an inkpad. Now a computer generated sheet when deed recorded includes a line describing the amount paid for the deed tax...which is based on a formula linked to consideration. All pageantry lost.

Prologue:

I really am trailing here but will likely catch-up soon and read more at same pace. In meantime I just finished the Prologue and agree with all your comments. Atkinson writes so engagingly, I smile and nod and highlight happily. Even make a side comment.

I love starting on the British side, showing what lead to so many policies, laws, and decisions that launched a war that resulted in independence from empire - a first - and in hindsight was ill-conceived from the British perspective.

Since I tend to read more Peninsular War set books, I am far more familiar with the Mad King George and the Regency than with King George as able monarch. Atkinson portrays a ruler who simply did not have the ability, sophistication, to handle obstreperous colonials. All severely underestimated the grit, skill, and determination of the colonists, forgetting the nature of those who made up the colonists in the first place.

@Olivermagnus - that whole section describing packing for war just had me smiling! Next time some airline clerk makes some comment about my overweight luggage when returning from a trip abroad (should I ever take one again thanks to COVID), even when I already told her/him I will pay the added charge, is going to hear me quote that passage!

I also was delighted to encounter Franklin and learn of his London years, again new information.

I think my favorite passage though is this:

The odds were heavily stacked against the Americans: no colonial rebellion had ever succeeded in casting off imperial shackles. But, as Voltaire had observed, history is filled with the sound of silken slippers going downstairs and wooden shoes coming up.

Voltaire just knows how to turn a descriptive phrase!

Steven wrote: "I am in Chapter 5, about page 160, hardback edition (the Canadian Campaign). Just wondering how far along everyone else is."

I finished chapter 5 last night Steven.

Booknblues wrote: "I've reach chapter 9, in part 2. I found the Canadian campaign really interesting."

As did I BnB! A lot of things I did not know about. Once again Atkinson's writing got to me, as he described Arnold's trek though the Canadian wilderness.

Theresa wrote: "Prologue: Has everyone picked their sinecure yet? My first choice is master of the jewel office. Master falconer is a close second.


Further, the king had purchased additional loyalty by sprinklin..."

I am thinking I would like the Master of the bedchamber position-probably lots of downtime for reading at that post 😁

I will take one of the Ranger of the Royal Forests positions - this would suit me nicely. Where do I sign up.

Joanne wrote: "As did I BnB! A lot of things I did not know about. Once again Atkinson's writing got to me, as he described Arnold's trek though the Canadian wilderness., ..."

I know, I loved that part and reading it I thought "Someone ought to write a novel about this."

Booknblues wrote: "Joanne wrote: "As did I BnB! A lot of things I did not know about. Once again Atkinson's writing got to me, as he described Arnold's trek though the Canadian wilderness., ..."

I know, I loved that..."

Right? Everything I have ever read about Arnold boils down to his treason

Chapter 1

I started last night but didn't get far before falling asleep. However, I realized after Atkinson's mention of Margaret Kemble Gage and her possibly being the source of leaks to the colonists, that what is so effective about his writing is that it creates images and scenes in my mind, often using just a few sentences, that make my reading feel like I'm watching the action either live or in a movie. I could see and hear Margaret listening at dinner table conversations then sharing the info surreptitiously. I could see and hear King George III procession to Portsmouth. I was in Parliament for the votes. I could see Franklin and his household taking leave of London.

That is Atkinson's writing gift for me.