Brain Soup Goes Gilmore discussion

Do you like Henry and Clare as individuals? (There's another thread to discuss their relationship.) Do you find them to be interesting/compelling characters? And how are your favorites of the supporting characters?

I did like Henry and Clare as individuals, though I also feel they are so equally defined by the other, and by their long & complex history/relationship, that it is very difficult to think of them as Henry and Clare instead of Henry&Clare.

Of supporting characters, I often disliked Gomez. While he was perhaps not wrong to warn Clare off Henry at the beginning on their relationship in the "present," I can't separate that warning from his selfish obsession with Clare. However, as a compelling supporting character, I'm glad Gomez was included and involved, and had a complicated, close friendship with Henry, as well.

The relationships in this novel are all complicated and selfish, which is how a lot of adult relationships are, whether or not that's how they should be.

Then there is Ingrid, who... I don't even know what to think about that narrative woven into the larger love story. It's messy, which I appreciate, and practically haunting -- she's the ghost of Henry's past he cannot escape thanks to the time-travel. Yet something about her story line fell flat for me, and I either wanted something more or something less, but I don't know what either of those would look like.

I *think* a lot of Alba's acting on it & going with it has much to do with /when/ she was born with it, and much to do with having loving, supportive, caring parents. When we meet 10-year-old Alba, she flat-out names her genetic disorder, and when she uses this term with her teacher, her teacher understands that, possibly, this man is Alba's dead, but not continuously dead, father. Whereas Henry only had himself to learn from -- the scene with him and his own 10-year-old self, and his younger self realizing this older Henry is just, in fact, him made me ache for him; for the loneliness and uniqueness that he faced all his life -- Alba always had her father and her mother whose own lives were so impacted by this strange genetic disorder, and they could support her, and so her future self could also be supportive to her past self.

I think Alba is a very interesting counterpoint to Henry.

I agree, too, Charisse deserved better than Gomez, but I appreciate that adult love and marriage is more complicated than that, and this book captures that in their marriage. I don't think Gomez didn't love Charisse, I think everyone just knew he loved Clare more; that's tragic, but complicated, and it happens. It's terrible, but it's realistic; and I definitely have complicated feelings of dislike for Gomez. I didn't like him, but I like that his character existed within the narrative, and I think his character added a lot to the depth of the various love stories, even if none of that depth was definitively good.

YES. To all you said here, yes, but also: as a feminist, I want the most for women in their lives and their relationships (all around, romantic, platonic, familial). However, I also see the great value in books representing these flawed relationships -- sometimes turning out better, sometimes always a let-down -- because it forces us to have the conversations you and I are having right now: where does it go wrong, and how, and why, and how do we do better for ourselves & other women?

If you only see the good, it's very easy to say: "Oh, that's good, fantastic!" and never speak about it again; or about how not everything is that way, or about how good can be improved upon still.

As a woman who is not actually very romantically inclined, I agree /a/ problem with romantic love can be a loss or surrender of self, but it's not a guaranteed effect of it. It's also not always a true "loss or surrender," something negative, especially in marriage. Marriage is about romantic love, to be sure, but it's also much more than that: it's about friendship, and creating family (even if it's always just two partners), and being in a partnership, and learned to sacrifice for others, and when to ask for others to sacrifice for you, as well.

In full disclosure, I sort of think that about all relationships, no matter if they are romantic or not: that relationships are at their best when they are a symbiotic agreement between persons about simultaneously lifting yourself up and someone else up, and negotiating the power balance that inevitably comes with being vulnerable with another human.

I'm pretty sure I am not even on topic any more, BUT I think the complete mix of marriages & relationships in this book made it all the more fantastic; it's about Henry & Clare's love story, but there are also many love stories (failed, successful, sad, and happy) that interact and balance with the main love story so, so well. It's all enriching, if not all pleasant or best for the characters.

And yes, again, YES, to wanting more or different for Charisse & Sharon & Celia & sometimes Clare.