Victorians! discussion

First Period Ch. 8-15
In the days before her 18th birthday, Rachel & Franklin spend time together in various pursuits including the decorative painting of the door to her dressing room. Franklin gives up smoking & has trouble sleeping as a result. Another cousin, Godfrey Ablewhite, is introduced and while Betteridge seems him the more likely suitor, both young men are suspected of asking for her hand and being rejected over the course of this section.

Rachel receives The Moonstone and it is hinted that John Herncastle May have willed it to her as a revenge on his sister, Julia. The family doctor, Mr. Candy, and a world traveler, Mr. Murthwaite, join the birthday dinner, at which three jugglers provide entertainment. These jugglers from India (and a prescient boy) have made a series of appearances and it is hinted that they may be the priests dedicated to returning the diamond to its rightful place.

The Diamond disappears during the night and the police are summoned, including Superintendent Seegrave and Sergeant Cuff from London. Interviews are taken and clues gathered, putting several characters under suspicion including Roseanna Spearman and Rachel Verinder.

Questions
1) What merits or defaults do you find in Sergeant Cuff as he is so far presented?
2) What do you make of the behavior of Roseanna Spearman?
3) What about the behavior of Rachel Verinder?

I'm interested to know what everyone thinks of Rachel Verinder. I remember being puzzled by her behavior after the "moonstone" was stolen.

I felt the same way.
Was that part of the curse of the Moonstone? To destroy happiness or relationships?

Rachel’s behavior is definitely unusual.
But then Betteridge does seem to indicate that she was always a bit different from other girls her age.

Sergeant Cuff’s character was heavily based on Jack Whicher, one of the first detectives to be employed by the Metropolitan police.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Wh...

Jack Whicher became famous for solving a series of baffling crimes and becoming embroiled in a notorious (for a time) unsolved murder which sullied his reputation for many years. This case was described in the book The Suspicions of Mr. Whicher by Kate Summerscale, a fascinating read I have just completed with my local library reading group. Both Charles Dickens and Wilkie Collins as well as other famous authors used Whicher’s characteristics in their novels.

Sergeant Cuff’s love of roses even coincided with that of Mr Whicher. I think the main differences between Cuff and the Superintendant so far are his awareness of the importance of personal realtionships as well as his attention to detail.

Roseanna is obviously in love with Franklin and is also in some way involved in the theft. Cuff does not think she has taken the diamond but she either is an accomplice or knows something and is afraid she will be accused.

Rachel’s reaction to the theft seems unusual. Her refusal to talk or let her things be examined could mean that either she herself is involved in the theft or, like Roseanna, knows more than she is willing to admit to. Betteridge described Rachel as very truthful but also willing to take the blame for others so this might have a bearing on her behaviour.

I found it interesting that only the servants were searched - at first, but when Cuff wanted to search the other inhabitants he had to use a trick (imo) to ask the Lady of the house to set a good example and let everyone be searched. Only when Rachel refuses he gives up. He´s got too much respect of the gentry.

These are implied to be accurate representations of Rachel's character:
- independent
- secretive
- stubborn
- honest
Hmm.

It is my understanding that the police (at the time of the setting) were at a disadvantage when investigating anyone of the upper or landed class. Scotland Yard (The Metropolitan Police) had only been created in 1829 by Sir Robert Peel and an act of Parliament.

I think Collins does a subtle job of showing this, since the investigators are there by invitation and everything they do has to get clearance from Lady Verinder or her agents.

I think it’s really interesting to look at how investigations & investigators are portrayed by writers like Collins, Dickens, and Braddon. And how they interact with characters of different social strata.

Brian wrote: "These are implied to be accurate representations of Rachel's character:
- independent
- secretive
- stubborn
- honest
Hmm."

I’ve also read descriptions of her as loyal although we don’t yet know to whom or what.

The description "loyal" suits Rachel. It's obvious that she is hiding something. For someone who had just lost a great valuable, her behaviour is quite peculiar. I don't think she is involved but she is certainly protecting someone. It seems that she has some knowledge to which we are not privy.

Piyangie wrote: "The description "loyal" suits Rachel. It's obvious that she is hiding something. For someone who had just lost a great valuable, her behaviour is quite peculiar. I don't think she is involved but s..."

Like Trev, I keep coming back to Betteridge’s description of her as a young girl and how they may be a foreshadowing of what might be her true motivations for her unexpected behavior.

I’m adding a link here to a portion of our 2016 discussion of The Moonstone. There are some interesting comments on the history of Scotland Yard and also on Collins’s use of characters names and physical characteristics.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Piyangie wrote: "The description "loyal" suits Rachel. It's obvious that she is hiding something. For someone who had just lost a great valuable, her behaviour is quite peculiar. I don't think she is involved but she is certainly protecting someone."

I was also confused by Rachel’s behavior this week. The only reasonable explanation for her behavior seems that she is covering for someone she really cares. But I should be honest I was a bit annoyed with her indifference. I couldn’t understand Roseanna as well. I think these are the two characters that piqued my interest every time I saw their names on the pages.

It's interesting to hear that Sergeant Cuff is based on Jack Whicher. I read Kate Sumerscale's book a few years ago, and read another Victorian true crime, Mr Briggs' Hat, last month that briefly mention Mr Whicher. If that's true, I have high hopes for Sgt Cuff!

I don't trust Roseanna or Rachel, and would be suspicious of both of them if I were investigating this crime. Rachel in particular seems very shifty. I worry that Roseanna might be a scapegoat or accomplice to a bigger crime due to her past.

I feel sorry for Roseanna since her life is so hard. I don't know what to make of Rachel at times.