Book Nerds :D discussion

How did God come to exist? I know that God created the earth or something similar to that, but who created him? Had he always existed? But that wouldn't be true because everything would have existed and God couldn't have created them.

this is one of those questions that I try to think about but it just hurts my brain XD I want to know so bad but I guess I won't find out for a looooong time

This is the view from Catholics (my faith)*:

*copy-pasted from a Catholic article online

The Church’s belief about God starts with creation. God is Creator of all that exists. (Gen 1:1; Ps 33:8-9; Ps 124:8; Ps 146:5-6) Yet for the Catholic, God is not merely a Divine Craftsman who works with pre-existent eternal matter, but is the source on which all contingent reality, including matter, depends for its existence. (Acts 17:25: Col 1:16-17)

Because God is the Source of all contingent reality, and thus not himself a contingent reality, he must by nature be self-existent, meaning he has the attribute of aseity. In short, God exists necessarily. Unlike the universe and everything in it, nothing is required for God to exist. He simply IS.

Link to what aseity means

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aseity

Ok I agree fully with the above. thank you. ****NOT TO SOUND RUDE**** but why is this convo here? if God was created that means there is something out there with more power than Him, and how could anything but an all-powerful being create a world as fine-tuned and meticulous as ours? He did not wink into existence one day, He has always been here, and will always, and just because it doesn't make sense to our human brains doesn't mean its not true. (wow that sounded mean)

@sophie,I'm not sure I fully understand your question (I mean, who can XD) but I will try my best. yes, God did create the world. He created it to be a perfect world and did it one day at a time, starting with light and ending with us. He called everything good, and the earth was in perfect balance. (#anime) He put the earth the perfect distance from the sun, put the earth on a perfect tilt, put planets and stars around us to protect, sustain, and amaze us, made the temperature perfect for the growth of plants, etc.... all of this points to a greater power, or creator, behind the world, because something like evolution or the big bang could not make a world as perfect as ours. yes, God has always existed. He is outside of time and so it is harder for us to comprehend, but there never has been or will be a time where God doesn't exist. He is fully self-existant, and going back to what I said before, you need an all powerful being to create something like this. if He was created, He would not be all-powerful. (aladdin,anyone?!) as for your last question, I dont really understand it but the world has not existed forever.God has. He chose a time to create the world, and before that, He was "living" in nothingness. He created the world to love and be loved **NOT IN A NARCISSISTIC WAY** you said that "everything would have existed and God couldn't have created them." again, the earth is not that old. if you even go read the first chapter of the bible, you see God creating the earth. it talks about nothingness, then he says, "let there be light" and there was light. again, the earth is only a few thousand years old. God is older than our brains can comprehend. the earth has not existed with God. they are not interlinked. God existed without it and picked a time to create it.

hopefully that somehow answers your question/at least helps. it is 11:15 and is too late for theological discussions XD. I go to a private Christian school so we talk about theological stuff a lot like this so lol hopefully it helps somewhat, I kinda enjoyed it ngl

TheKaleChip wrote: "@sophie,I'm not sure I fully understand your question (I mean, who can XD) but I will try my best. yes, God did create the world. He created it to be a perfect world and did it one day at a time, s..."

This pretty much sums up my point to a tea

;)

TheKaleChip wrote: "@sophie,I'm not sure I fully understand your question (I mean, who can XD) but I will try my best. yes, God did create the world. He created it to be a perfect world and did it one day at a time, s..."

Well, I think that's really interesting...what i mean by the "everything would have existed" is that if god had always existed then everything would have too. And if God created them (which is what happened), then how did God come to existence? Perhaps he had just..always existed. And...it's just like a loop....you know. I'm not trying to be rude to your answer, that's just my opinion...

TheKaleChip wrote: "Ok I agree fully with the above. thank you. ****NOT TO SOUND RUDE**** but why is this convo here? if God was created that means there is something out there with more power than Him, and how could ..."

the convo is here...because I think it's kinda like a debate, perhaps? It kinda doesn't fit fully but the convo is going to be here for the moment...

Sophie Nguyen wrote: "TheKaleChip wrote: "@sophie,I'm not sure I fully understand your question (I mean, who can XD) but I will try my best. yes, God did create the world. He created it to be a perfect world and did it ..."

God is self-sufficient. He just needs himself to exist. However, living things (like plants, animals, planets, stars, life that isn't God) need God in order to live. We aren't self-sufficient enough to create life from nothing like God can. That would be how it works.

Yeah and God has always existed. its not a loop or anything, our brains just don't comprehend it. we don't understand forever because its not a part of our life. and don't worry about it ur not being rude

Sophie Nguyen wrote: "TheKaleChip wrote: "@sophie,I'm not sure I fully understand your question (I mean, who can XD) but I will try my best. yes, God did create the world. He created it to be a perfect world and did it ..."

What you have to remember is this: Time doesn't necessarily pass the same to us as it does God. It was said that Earth was created in 6-7 days, however, science dictates that Earth developed over the course of billions of years. Many people think that science and religion (particularly Catholicism), however that isn't true. After all, I see very little difference in the Creation of the Universe by God and the Big Bang Theory, which states that everything in the universe can be traced back to one speck of matter. Who's to say that that speck of matter wasn't God? Besides, as humans, we can never truly understand God. And quite frankly, we aren't meant to. That would mean trying to attain godhood, in a way. It's just something we're not meant to understand and instead have to accept if we choose to believe in God

Alexandria wrote: "Sophie Nguyen wrote: "TheKaleChip wrote: "@sophie,I'm not sure I fully understand your question (I mean, who can XD) but I will try my best. yes, God did create the world. He created it to be a per..."

Alright :)

TheKaleChip wrote: "Yeah and God has always existed. its not a loop or anything, our brains just don't comprehend it. we don't understand forever because its not a part of our life. and don't worry about it ur not bei..."

I’m not a Christian (or is part of any religion that includes the Bible) but I have read the Bible. So I really don’t understand this as much as you guys 😅

Lol if I'm being honest I dont really understand it either, kind of comes with the property. but I go to a Christian school and have learned how to debate these things to death XD

I’ve actually never read the Bible in its entirety, and I don’t go to a Christian or Catholic school either. But I live in a highly Catholic family and grew up attending church and listening to the e priest read Bible passages and explain them. My mom and I have discussed religion a lot. This discussion in particular is never one we’ve had, but we’ve had other ones in a similar vein 🙂

Alexandria wrote: "I’ve actually never read the Bible in its entirety, and I don’t go to a Christian or Catholic school either. But I live in a highly Catholic family and grew up attending church and listening to the..."

TheKaleChip wrote: "Lol if I'm being honest I dont really understand it either, kind of comes with the property. but I go to a Christian school and have learned how to debate these things to death XD"

My dad said that our family are "independent", which means that we don't exactly follow any teachings. My mom likes to listen to Buddhist teachings, and I read the Bible a couple times so I kinda understand the concept.

Sophie Nguyen wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "I’ve actually never read the Bible in its entirety, and I don’t go to a Christian or Catholic school either. But I live in a highly Catholic family and grew up attending church a..."

Ahh...my mother is Roman Catholic, and my father is a Protestant (however he kind of converted to Catholicism; he was baptized Protestant though I think and he isn't fully recognized as a member of the Catholic church). My sister and I are also Roman Catholic

●Sophie● wrote: "TheKaleChip wrote: "@sophie,I'm not sure I fully understand your question (I mean, who can XD) but I will try my best. yes, God did create the world. He created it to be a perfect world and did it ..."

Hi, I just found this and although I'm now an agnostic, I was raised Catholic and read alot of books about this stuff and think aobut it a lot. Think about like this. So if you believe in the Big Bang, nothing existed before then because space and time did not exist. So Catholics and Christians in general believe that God existed before than, as he is infinite, so he exists out of time. This would mean that there was no loop because you wold need time to allow for something to repeat. Also I disagree slightly with TheKaleChip, just on the concept of the age of the universe and when God "created" it in the sense that he said "Let there be Light." I believe in the Dinosaurs and Evolution, and I don't believe that they directly contradict the Bible necessarily, as since God is outside of time, 7 days for him could have been 4 billion years for us, so evolution could have been influenced into humans and such. I love these kind of discussion/debates, and I hope to talk more about it in the future.

ParadoxSnowie wrote: "●Sophie● wrote: "TheKaleChip wrote: "@sophie,I'm not sure I fully understand your question (I mean, who can XD) but I will try my best. yes, God did create the world. He created it to be a perfect ..."

Interesting take Snowie. When it comes to evolution I strongly disagree because of of my religion as well as I don't think humans have learned enough to make such bold statements on the universe. I'd love to hear why you believe in it though. This is why I don't:

The equations that are used to calculate how long life has existed. Math is not the answer to everything. Think of Fahrenheit and Celsius. If you set an oven to 400 and bake a cake for 20mins. If its 400F your cake will be baked to near perfection. If it is 400C your cake will be burnt. I believe is it the same situation for evolution. I think the equations are expanding the numbers way out of how long we have actually existed. My big problem with this is that (to my knowledge) there are no active projects to challenge evolution. For the most part it is just assumed to be correct.

ParadoxSnowie wrote: "●Sophie● wrote: "TheKaleChip wrote: "@sophie,I'm not sure I fully understand your question (I mean, who can XD) but I will try my best. yes, God did create the world. He created it to be a perfect ..."

Also, I know Catholics and Christians have different views on how long exactly God created the universe. But how I see it, He did create it in six days (seventh day he rested) because in my Bible it says the sun set and rose, marking x day. He was working on Earth, so he had daylight cycles such as we do now.

Scooooooodles wrote: "ParadoxSnowie wrote: "●Sophie● wrote: "TheKaleChip wrote: "@sophie,I'm not sure I fully understand your question (I mean, who can XD) but I will try my best. yes, God did create the world. He creat..."

Huh, interesting take Scoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodles(xD). currently my brain cant work so icant say much else lol

COPY AND PASTED FROM AN ARTICLE

In Hinduism the universe is millions of years old. In line with the Hindu belief in reincarnation, the universe we live in is not the first or indeed the last universe.

For Hindus the universe was created by Brahma, the creator who made the universe out of himself.

After Brahma created the world, it is the power of Vishnu which preserves the world and human beings.

As part of the cycle of birth, life and death it is Shiva who will ultimately destroy the universe. This is not necessarily as bad as it might sound because it allows Brahma to start the process of creation all over again.

Personally? I don't believe in God. But through perfectly logical reasoning? He just is. Plain as that. Just like how love just is. He just... is.

He always always always was. Nothing can change my mind of that.

@maura, agreed with that. even though we as humans cannot comprehend infinity, God is infinity. He is, was, and always will be, just like we always will be. just because it is outside of our perception of time doesn't mean its not possible.
also, @paradoxsnowie, I'd love to hear your argument for evolution if you're ok with providing one! I personally do not believe in evolution but I would be interested to see your take!

Scooooooodles wrote: "ParadoxSnowie wrote: "●Sophie● wrote: "TheKaleChip wrote: "@sophie,I'm not sure I fully understand your question (I mean, who can XD) but I will try my best. yes, God did create the world. He creat..."

Lol a month later i was going through this folder and found this argument. I have never heard an argument for evolution quite like this one before but scooodles its very well put😉

If I’m going to be honest, and I am, then I’m going to say, I’m okay with not knowing. As a Christian, I’m just happy that God is there to love and support. This may not be a great thing to say in this topic but, this is my point of view :)

Audrey wrote: "If I’m going to be honest, and I am, then I’m going to say, I’m okay with not knowing. As a Christian, I’m just happy that God is there to love and support. This may not be a great thing to say in ..."

I kinda agree.

My belief is that God is the Alpha and Omega, Beginning and End. He is not bound by time. He's always been here and always will be. It's one of the things that we'll never truly understand until (if we're believers) we get to Heaven ya know?

Kara wrote: "Audrey wrote: "If I’m going to be honest, and I am, then I’m going to say, I’m okay with not knowing. As a Christian, I’m just happy that God is there to love and support. This may not be a great t..."

Yes! I kind of think of it like this: God hasn’t (as far as my knowledge goes) told anyone where He came from. Perhaps He doesn’t want to. Or maybe, one day, He’ll tell someone. And maybe your right also, Kara, maybe when we are in Heaven, we get to know. But for now, I’m just being happy that He is there for me, and for all of us. :)

TheKaleChip wrote: "Scooooooodles wrote: "ParadoxSnowie wrote: "●Sophie● wrote: "TheKaleChip wrote: "@sophie,I'm not sure I fully understand your question (I mean, who can XD) but I will try my best. yes, God did crea..."

ahh thanks Kale

Yep! anytime! I kinda enjoyed it ngl

I watched a documentary on Netflix about the FLDS church and I assume it is like that.
Someone created it and it just became mainstream.

back then people didn't have the science to logically think about what happens when we die so we created something mythical. I understand why though, its pretty depressing the truth of it all.

if you need something to believe in I think that's fine, as long as you aren't hurting yourself or others.

Wait wdym by the first two paragraphs

obviously its more complicated than that but I mean that someone probably came up with a religion to explain what happens when we die for sanity reasons or for power and over time we have picked and choosed what we want to believe from said religion if you choose to follow one (clearly we aren't following them the way that they were intended to be followed because most likely if you did you would be committing a crime or we have come to see that it isn't important).
I personally view religion like politics, the house that you want to represent you is what most likely lines up with your beliefs.

god was created at the center of the universe, we created it.

...i will point out that Christianity (or whatever it was called back then) was "created" because of God directly communicating with Adam and Eve and the prophets throughout the Bible, including what happens after death. There is pain and sin and sadness in the world because of us, but it actually gives us a way to be with God after death, as God says to Adam and Eve in the third or fourth chapter of the Bible. Absolutely none of Christianity is made up, it all comes directly from God, who created the world and everything in it and is the final authority on everything. We may not be following God the EXACT way we're supposed to be, but as Americans we have the freedom to and it's not committing a crime. In countries like China, it is a death sentence to even be seen with a Bible. Yes, society nowadays has changed Christianity to what they want it to be and followed that, but if you go back to the source, it has everything you need to know.

By the way, how could man have created the universe? We absolutely do not have the power of the reach to do that, and how could God have been created? Who would He have been created by? Us? If we have that much power, why would we even bother to create a god figure? Wouldn't we just worship ourselves? It would be much more fitting.

To summarize: no, we did not "make up" what happens after death (i mean, some religions might), but some people have chosen what pieces of Christianity to believe. Now, that's no one's fault but theirs, but it by no means changes the meaning of the religion overall. No, we're not following as intended, but even if we were in America (specifically) we wouldn't be killed for it, thoguh in other countries you woiuld be no matter how correct it is. Religion has indeed become like politics, but it was never intended to be that way. And finally, there is no way we created the universe; none of ushave that power and if we did, we'd just get rid of all sin, and there'd be no purpose for a god figure.

Hopefully this helps and aplologies for the extensive typos, i know you didnt expect to get hit with that.

"We" as in life was what I was trying to say.
We are apart of life just as much as the beginning of time.

You are right, man could not have created "god" but we can create a god ( or gods if your religion has multiple). You know what they say " knowledge is power" and people are easily influenced.

Why would we bother to create a god figure?
To answer that would be impossible because there are so many reasons but at the top of my head I would say that fear, power and a sense of belonging come to mind. Fear of the unknown, power because of control and the benefits that come with that and maybe its just in our human nature to want to feel like we belong I suppose.

We are literally on a website that is for books and majority of the books we read on here are fictional and you think that someone couldn't have came up with god.

you could worship yourself if you wanted to, there's no one stopping you (but to be fair that is a bit narcissistic so I personally won't be doing that)

Melanie wrote: ""We" as in life was what I was trying to say.
We are apart of life just as much as the beginning of time.

You are right, man could not have created "god" but we can create a god ( or gods if you..."

hope you don't mind but i'd like to jump in.

What about all the people who witnessed Jesus? And The Flood? And Creation?

Yeah scoodles jump in whenever!

@melanie imma try to keep this short bc I hafta go to bed soon, but I will point out that it is human nature to worship ourselves, if we had enough power to create the universe why would we "lay" it on an inanimate object? no matter how fearful someone would get, they wouldn't give that up. yes, it is in our human nature to want to belong, but it is also human nature to want to be better than everyone else.

to your other point, yes, authors are very creative. but there is literally no way that a single person could make up Christianity and back it up with all the history that is in the Bible, and provide the reach that Christianity has, and honestly, if it was written by a human being a thousand years ago, it wouldn't be regarded as true. imma try to have an example (its gonna be bad) so jk rowling, in 1991, released the first harry potter book. the series kept expanding and it was a smash hit internationally, although some people hated it (like in a religion) because they believed that the series was about witchcraft and demons instead of love and friendship and good over evil. that's not Rowling's fault, that's just everyone's perspective. now, people do not regard the wizarding world as true. (not including 7-year-olds.) no one actually believes that there is a Hogwarts hidden in the foothills of scotland, or that cars can fly, or that sticks give you the power to do magic. this is because it was based upon human imagination. disregarding the fact that the things that happen in harry potter are physically impossible, even then, no one believes it to be true. an entire world, an entire philosophy, an entire race and way of life and history behind it was created by one person's imagination while she was aboard a train.

Going back to the bible, that is what I mean. it doesn't matter how much "history" there is or how famous the author is or how far the books have reached. the book went a long way because it's a good story, not because it's true. for someone to create the bible, and all the history, the religion, the way of life, and all the tiny little details, is impossible. it has gone above and beyond as the bestselling book in the world because every bit of it is true, and there is historical evidence outside of the bible to prove every bit. I will also add that the entire bible is not written by one person, it's written by (about?) 50 different people whose stories all line up. the gospels, all 4, all tell the same story, with details depending on what that individual person is like and what they noticed. I don't care how good your memory is, 4 people cannot get together and have the exact same story for anything, especially when one of them wrote a gospel while imprisoned on a desert island in the middle of a sea.

fair point that we can create a god object to worship. look around. buddha, for one.

anyway I hope this helped and this was way longer than I intended it to be

Scooooooodles wrote: "Melanie wrote: ""We" as in life was what I was trying to say.
We are apart of life just as much as the beginning of time.

You are right, man could not have created "god" but we can create a god ..."


Well when you were younger did your parents tell you about the easter bunny and Santa, did you believe them? Maybe you did or maybe you didn't but if someone never told you that they weren't real would you still believe them?

The people that witnessed Jesus are the same people that viewed Warren Jeffs as a prophet.

The flood is a fictional story to me and IF it was real I still don't know why people would want to follow a god that would want to murder his creation just because he didn't like it.

Well how could anyone have witness the creation, humans didn't exist for a very long time.

Ok im gonna attack half of this before coming back tomorrow, i really need to go to bed.😂

Fair point about santa and the easter bunny. I will bring in that we all believed that at the age of seven, when one will believe anything they're told, especially by their parents. Yes, everyone figures out eventually that they aren't real, because whether your parents tell you or not, society can tell you plenty. Have you never heard of a person who had santa ruined for them because their friend told them?

Ok first off warren jeffs and Jesus lived in completely different time periods, thousands of years apart. The same people cannot testify to both, and anyway, if one sees a convicted child r@pist as a prophet then that's their own problem. I will add that Jesus lived for about thirty years, and accounts of him vary from his own disciples to his parents to his brothers (which are to be expected), but also Roman soldiers, "word on the street," and even the Pharisees. There is even discovered historical evidence that Jesus lived, and even other religions believe that He existed, even if they only regard Him as a prophet.

Whatever ill finish the argument. Sleep can wait😂😩

All i can say for the creation account is that you have to have faith that God exists. Moses actually wrote the creation account becuase God spoke through him about what He did and told him to share it with people; and although he wasn't born until a couple hundred years later, science still backs it up. Honestly I can't help you much there, if you don't believe in God and His divine power then you won't believe this.

Finally, for the whole thing about the flood, this is very hard for anyone, including Christians, to understand and may just be one of those things you have to accept when you accept God. the flood definitely is not fictional, there is historical and scientific evidence that it happened. Remains of Noah's ark were found on (in?) a mountain. Rainbows show up after particularly hard rainstorms. Whether they've eventually gone extinct or not, at least two of each prehistoric animal lived through the flood, with evidence to show for it. Now for the other part. This is something that is definitely hard for everyone to think about, but you have to kesp in mind that God hates sin. He absolutely detests it; it is the one thing He does not tolerate. People in that time had become to corrupt and misguided that the world "needed a fresh start." Even outside of that, Noah's faith towards God was tested even as soon as he started building the ark. unfortunately, i cannot give you a goodanswer for why the flood happened. That is something only God knows right now, and we may get to someday. All i can tell you is that the rainbow (not the version taken over by the LGBTQIA+ community) is an everlasting and permanent promise to never flood the earth again. He saw how much pain and destruction it caused and gave Noah a sign of his promise, He "hung up his bow in the sky as a sign of peace." (Paraphrased) all i can add is that yes, it makes no sense that sin is in the world and is allowed to ravage us like it does right now. It makes no sense that millionsof Jews were killed under one man's prejudices in the Holocaust, makes no sense that one terrorist group who hot three buildings could kill, traumatise and permanently injure thousands of people, makes no sense that thousands, if not millions of Ukrainians have been dying in the past few months because of one man's greed, selfishness, and desire to have more power than he was given. I know all this has happened, and more. More ofthis will happen. It will not stop until Jesus rides in on a white horse for the final judgement day. Every day we endure pain and suffering that was never meant to exist in this world. All i can tell you is that suffering ultimately points you to God. It may not seem like it, it may sesm like He is allowing it to happen, or like He hates you. This isfalse. He loves you more than we can ever imagine. The suffering we go through actually serves as a reminder to put our trust in God, becuase one day, we will be rewarded for our faith and taken someplace better and more perfect than we can ever imagine. As someone who also struggles with doubt, i have to constantly remind myself of this: that no matter how hard things get, no matter how much it seems like nothing will get better, God is waiting in the background, patiently waiting for the day when you will look to Him and decide to trust that what's happeningto you is forthebetter. I know it seems impossible. But when you believe in it, it makes more sense than it does from the outside. From the outside,suffering, like killing the world with a massive flood, looks like punishment and hate. But from the inside, you can see the good in the darkness. There's just a little something pushing you to keep going.

So that's how i want to wrap up. By saying, quite frankly, that i dont have all the answers, no one does. But the bible is backed up historically and scientifically, and was written by 50+ people over the span of a few thousand years. The writers almost never overlapped. There are clear differences in writing style in nearly every book of the bible. And i know that last part got deep and touchy, but i felt like it required a much longer answer than most questikns do, becuase it is a very hard thing to think about, and something i personally have struggled with a lot. The God we follow is not the god who destroys worlds and pits armies against each other and stirs up strife for his own purpose. The God we follow, is a quiet, gentle, loving presence in our lives who leads us through hard times and poinrs to things better.

Hopefully this answers at least onequestion😂 i never meant for this to get so long (apologies for that) but it was actually helpful to me to write this. Apologies also for the extensive typos, the space button doesnt always work. Imma sign off for tonight so if you post anything else i wont answer it until tomorrow, but i really enjoyed this! Have a great night!

TheKaleChip (hiatus 12-20) wrote: "Yeah scoodles jump in whenever!

@melanie imma try to keep this short bc I hafta go to bed soon, but I will point out that it is human nature to worship ourselves, if we had enough power to create ..."

Well like you said, its in our human nature to want to be better than everyone else (depending on who you are as a person). If you give yourself labels like ‘Prophet’ people are going to think you are better than everyone else and that’s the point. Why would we lay it on an inanimate object? Lack of knowledge and power like I said. Obviously, I was speaking metaphorically when I said that we created the universe. We as humans didn’t create the universe but we are the centre of our own universes, my world is clearly different from yours.
As humans we created God, who’s to say that your religion is the true one if there are multiple.
You say that people now days would not believe that the harry potter universe is real and that is true because we have the knowledge to know that it is not. I don’t know if you remember but people were literally burned and accused of being “witches” because of the bible. If harry potter was written in a different time who’s to say that they wouldn’t have believed it.
I mean if you share a story long enough you could have the exact or similar details as someone else.
I could write an essay about harry potter and you could write an essay about harry potter and eventually it would all come together as one thing.

Melanie wrote: "Scooooooodles wrote: "Melanie wrote: ""We" as in life was what I was trying to say.
We are apart of life just as much as the beginning of time.

You are right, man could not have created "god" bu..."

There is actually, TONS of historical evidence for the Flood... Rapid Fossilization and deposited sediment layers across huge areas, and either tons of erosion or zero in strata. Just looking at the globe, you can have a rough idea how everything fit together.

TheKaleChip (hiatus 12-20) wrote: "Ok im gonna attack half of this before coming back tomorrow, i really need to go to bed.😂

Fair point about santa and the easter bunny. I will bring in that we all believed that at the age of seven..."

This is STUNNING KaleChip! Well Done!

I’m done arguing with y’all, believe what you want.

As long as you aren’t spreading hate I honestly don’t care.

I was just sharing my opinions.

Also if there is historical evidence of the flood that’s cool but you can’t be 100% sure that the stories behind it are, it’s not like we can go back in time.

Melanie wrote: "I’m done arguing with y’all, believe what you want.

As long as you aren’t spreading hate I honestly don’t care.

I was just sharing my opinions.

Also if there is historical evidence of the floo..."

I think your opinions are 100% valid Melanie. It's honestly very interesting to see how other people interpret such deep ideas.

Melanie wrote: "I’m done arguing with y’all, believe what you want.

As long as you aren’t spreading hate I honestly don’t care.

I was just sharing my opinions.

Also if there is historical evidence of the floo..."

Like Scooodles said, your opinions are 100% valid. I just personally don't share them, and that's okay =) Hearing other opinions is fascinating to me though

This isn't answering the question but i had a thought (I'm not a Christian btw)

So Jesus is Jewish right? And everyone seems surprised my that. Like "you'd think Jesus wouldn't be a Jewish I'd he's the focus of Christianity" (that was worded bad but you get the gist)

But like. It makes sense.

So Christianity is believing in God and Jesus and the Bible. God makes Mary pregnant with Jesus. So if Jesus was a Christian, doesn't that mean that he believes that he mum didn't get pregnant naturally and would be like "I'm convinced and believe that another entity made you pregnant with me" which most children won't think if. Instead, he chooses anotger god to believe in, the Jewish one, which makes more sense.

(I am a Christian btw)

Well, actually, it's simultaneously a bit more complicated and straightforward than that. Jesus being a Jew makes perfect sense. One just simply has to look at history, geography, Jewish Law, and his genealogy. Jesus was born in the Herodian Kingdom of Judea, which, at the time, was part of the Roman Empire. In that kingdom, the dominant religion was Second Temple Judaism. This time coincides with the rise of Christianity.

The other thing is this:

Mary was a first-century Jewish woman of Nazareth. According to Rabbinic Judaism (the mainstream form of Judaism since 6 CE), a Jew is anyone who was either born of a Jewish mother or who converted to Judaism in accordance with halakha (Jewish Law).

*Orthodox Judaism follows matrilineal descent. Orthodox Judaism holds that anyone with a Jewish mother also has irrevocable Jewish status; that even were such a Jew to convert to another religion, that person would still be considered Jewish by Jewish Law.

*Technically, Orthodox Judaism is one modern form of Judaism, formed in the 18th century, but it supposedly came about from Rabbinic Judaism aforementioned.

From Wikipedia:

"Orthodox Judaism maintains that the law of matrilineal descent in Judaism dates at least to the time of the covenant at Sinai (c. 1310 BCE). This law was first codified in writing in the Mishna (c. 2nd century CE*).

Technically, this, according to some historical records, wouldn't have been codified until about 101-200 years after Jesus's death, however if it did date back to 1310 BCE, then it's still potentially applicable. I cannot confidently say whether it is applicable or not as I was (obviously) not alive at that time, and I don't know enough Jewish history, nor have I studied Judaism.

The Talmud adduces the law of matrilineal descent from Deuteronomy 7:3–4, which warns that as the consequence of intermarriage "he (the gentile father) will turn away your son (i.e. the child born to your Jewish daughter) from following Me". Since only "he" (a non-Jewish father) is mentioned and not "she" (a non-Jewish mother), the Talmud concludes that "your (grand)son who comes from an Israelite woman is called 'your son' (and warned about in the verse), while your (grand)son who comes from a foreign woman is not called 'your son'". Thus, Jewish descent is through the mother."

So, let's say Jesus did believe in the Christian God and the belief that his mother was impregnated by the Holy Spirit through God's will. Let's say he believed he was the son of God (which he obviously did based on passages from the Bible).

Even if Jesus did believe in the Christian God rather than the Jewish one, it doesn't change the fact that because Mary was a Jew, Jesus is and will always be considered a Jew under Jewish Law. Yes, Jesus was a Jewish preacher, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't believe in the Christian God. His Jewish status can never be taken away from him due to his mother being a Jew.

In many religions, once someone converts to another religion, they are no longer automatically part of their old religion. Someone is not Christian just because they inherited it from their parents. That isn't how that works. But that is how Orthodox Judaism works. So, Jesus being a Jew makes perfect sense and doesn't contradict that Jesus may have believed in the Christian God. They are not mutually exclusive. Jesus was a Jew because Mary was a Jew. Simple as that.

This is, of course, mostly speculation. Because religion has existed forever and Judaism and Christianity have existed for thousands of years, it is logically impossible to be able to explain certain religious things. And because religion is full of various denominations, it is impossible to discern certain things. Some Jews believe that Judaism was originally passed on by the father, then changed matrilineally later. Other Jews believe that someone's Jewish status has always been determined matrilineally, so there are no easy, nor 100% correct answers due to human interpretation. So, this is purely my speculation, which is subject to change as I am only human, and humans learn and make mistakes =)

I love seeing new notifs for this discussion