Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

This is a Buddy Read for The Empire of Ashes by Anthony Ryan starting March 10, 2022.

Well i am in

I'll be playing catchup. Only barely into Legion of Flames

No worries Rob, we are not in a race :D

In

Whoo, found it!

Errr, i may have picked this up to read a chapter or two yesterday and it seems i have read almost the entire book

Books can be dangerous like that. :)

Yeah, ended up finishing it befor the start date ahahahaha. Well i will be here waiting for all your comments :D

lol! No comments of your own yet, Filipe?

Well I can say that, overall I liked the series and this is a good book. I won't go into any spoilers bellow but I will put the spoiler tag because I will share my opinion and do not want to influence anything ;)

(view spoiler)[
My favorite is still the first book but, as it happened with the second, this book as some great moments.

Apart from minor things( like the previous entries) i think the major issue I have is with the major reveal for some of the key mystery points. In some instances it feels like you are building up to an explosion and you end up with a wimpy wet firecracker.

It was a clear instance where the journey is much more rewarding than the destination (view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Looking forward to being able to crack that open!

Starting the book now. Going to be jumping back and forth between this and Deadhouse Gates.

Straight away, on the cover, it shows a Black and a White fighting. I wonder if the Black is Lutharon, or just symbolic of how the Black resist the White's influence?

Kind of annoyed that the Southern ice never got a map.

Part I Text (view spoiler)[Hey, it's Hilemore's Lewella! Been wanting to learn more about her. But if we only get hints here in these Part texts I'm going to be peeved.

Seems like their split was part political and part distance.

Prophetic/clairvoyant dreams? Interesting.

A wager, sir? I wager it's the Ferosian refugees. And I win. But man, those poor folks--running first from Carvenport and now Feros...

Clay's aunt meeting Hilemore's ex--that's a powerful duo! I really hope we get a POV on the Mandinor Continent! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 1 (view spoiler)[Thank goodness we're back right away with Clay. That was the biggest cliffhanger the book left us with! (hide spoiler)]

Arises an interesting question: what is the value of memory? Is it more than life, or is life more valuable than memory? If you had to sacrifice one for the other, which would it be?

Through Chapter 4

Tinkerer (view spoiler)[Some questions answered! How the line of blood-blessed babies ended up in the prison city (and probably how the supply of product got there too). The real purpose of the music box. The Artisan's end game.

Much of this series so far has been attempting to dance the lines of prophecy, rumor, and future glimpses. (hide spoiler)]

Old Jack (view spoiler)[On the one hand--yay, new dragon friend! On the other hand--Clay! Don't abuse the relationship! Old Jack might not be as bright as a Black, but you don't have to treat him like a dog either. I hope you feed him and do nice things for him.

Looking forward to the egg! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 9 (view spoiler)[I love seeing Lizanne's father get his telling-to from the Tinker. Just plucking the pencil from his hands and telling him how his plans are inelegant! Wish we'd gotten a little bit more there. (hide spoiler)]

Aerostats--I'm glad we're getting them in this series, from Book 2 on. To be honest, when I read the first few chapters of book 1, I thought the ships mentioned were airships, and it took me a bit to realize they weren't. Then I felt cheated. Steampunk without airships? That's seriously wrong, ya know? Book 2 partially assuaged that, and book 3 is looking to do better. (view spoiler)[And Tekela as pilot is quite fun. (hide spoiler)]

Hope one day I'll read this one... My TBR list is longer and longer every day ;)

Very familiar with the feeling! So many good books, only so many hours in the day...

Unfortunately ;)

Ohhh i will need to get to Deadhouse Gates.

Part I Text (view spoiler)[Yes we do get a bit more about Hillemore and Lewella so it will answer some of your questions regarding their relationship (hide spoiler)]

Tinkerer - (view spoiler)[What do you think about what has been revealed so far about the Tinkerer? And the Artisan? (hide spoiler)]

The thing i was afraid when the Aerostats was introduced was that it would be a fast travel system. For book 1 and 2 we are told it it a big world and traveling takes time so i was afraid that he would use it to just make character jump from one place to the other in a very short amout of time.

Ahhhh, I forgot to put it in my BR Tracker. Thank goodness ya'll are posting in the thread and I actually got a notification for it. XD

I have it in my head that I must read the ebook for #2 and dive into #3. I don't have to, but I feel like I should cause I get more out of the print copy.

Gotta decide what I'm doing. Eep! *adds #3 to the BR Pile*

Fingers crossed I can finish Legion of Flame this weekend!

Yay! Join us Soo!

Chapter 11 ending (view spoiler)[I just loved Lizanne's entrance (exit?) at the end--though it's not exactly worthy of a truce flag. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 12 Redshirts (view spoiler)[Now that Clay & Hilemore are back with the other ships, we have a collection of disposable sailors again. Things were getting tense for a while, but now our named characters are probably safe as we hit action.

Makes me think of Blackflame's dedication. (hide spoiler)]

Jack (view spoiler)[Steelfine's calling Jack a coward. Makes me want to smack him. Just because he's big and dragony, doesn't mean he has to fight and die/get hurt for other folk. He's just a big puppy. Leave him alone. (hide spoiler)]

Interior (view spoiler)[So, Lutharon, where are you? How bad to things have to get before you'll Deus ex Machina your way back? (hide spoiler)]

two-fingered salute--anyone read The Vorkosigan Saga? Every time I see an abbreviated form of a salute, I think of it as the "analysts' salute" ala Miles.

I feel kind of bad that every time our blood-blessed come across dragons heading to kill them, I mainly think "oooh, more product supply!"

Someone had mentioned the seemingly-unending supply of vials in book two, and how they must clink and clank as they walk.

Chapter 13 sylph-folk (view spoiler)[That little tidbit came out of nowhere. So is there another sentient species on this world? I doubt this will be explored further. (hide spoiler)]

Mainland (view spoiler)[The political upheaval described by Sofiya is rather irritating--especially since we'll probably only get the Part II & III text to follow it. I'm leaning towards Lizanne for President. So there seems a dearth of competence at management levels. (hide spoiler)]

Varestians (view spoiler)[I love that their company charter includes a 10% bribe for Lizanne. Of course, company charters etc will only bear profit IF they survive everything with enough of a governmental structure intact. It seems a cheap price to me.

Also, the "lifetime rights to ay and all novel devices manufactured on Conglomerate soil" can be easily avoided by having the invention team stay on board the ship or go up in aerostat. IF they think of it.

Or just have the evil uncle and annoying grandma die before the end of the book. Zenida takes over and they're golden. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 14 (view spoiler)[After slimy Okanas', I'm actually glad the Horde's next target is Varestia. Though it seems they're starting with south Corvantine Empire--seems for more recruits. (hide spoiler)]

End of chapter (view spoiler)[Her god is a jealous god. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 15 (view spoiler)[Captain Trumane was a more interesting character before he got knocked unconscious--when he was Hilemore's superior officer he seemed like a tough hat but open to progress. Since he woke up he's been stiff and inflexible. He's gonna end up dead.

Artisan is a woman! Love it. And a lover of the "Emperor"! The Artisan's sounded similar to the Empress's though I couldn't remember it, made me think of her. It doesn't straight up say that the Empress is the famous composer Makario loves, but if she is, then the papers he stole actually were not just owned by the Emperor, but written by one of his ancestors. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 15 Green (view spoiler)[So, I know we've been seeing Green being used on folks for medical healing from the very beginning--but isn't undiluted blood (and even diluted blood) supposed to burn and kill folk who aren't blessed? Or is it just the other colors, and not Green? Seeing Braddon down a full vial of green seemed a bit plot-holey. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 16 Cerath (view spoiler)[I'm getting an image of something like an elephant-sized horse/bull. Interesting herd mechanics, and a funny scene. (hide spoiler)]

Part II Text (view spoiler)[The Bankruptcy of the corporatocracy makes me think of the Mandate of Heaven--those who hold the Mandate are those in power. Lose the power, lose the Mandate. But in the Syndicate's situation, it's money. Lose the money, lose the power.

Also wondering what the p--- word spoken by Molly Pins was. There's a lot of potential "p" words. The other ---s were pretty self-explanatory. (hide spoiler)]

Filipe wrote: "Ohhh i will need to get to Deadhouse Gates.

Part I Text [spoilers removed]

Tinkerer - [spoilers removed]

The thing i was afraid when the Aerostats was introduced was that it would be a fast trav..."

re: Tinkerer (view spoiler)[What was revealed? Just the bits we were discussing in book 2--how the supply of blood-blessed babies ended up in Scorazin, how the supply of product ended in there too. Those were answered in that trance with Tinkerer in the first Lizanne chapter. (hide spoiler)]

re: Aerostats--Now I want to comb through the books and compare time and distance. :) It does seem faster than boats by a bit, and the added benefit of being able to draw a straight line over land.

Tinkerer (view spoiler)[ Yeah I was referring to that part of the trance. It just seems such a convoluted method to pass the knowledge. And the part about it being locked....

And I guess you got to the part os the Artisan ;). That reveal I liked quite a bit and it was a nice surprise (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 15 (view spoiler)[ I know right? it was too strong for regular people and it even burns flesh but now it seems that any one can have a Green shot and all is magically solved....despite what we where told. I guess that in some situations it can be diluted but not the one that Clay had.

also regarding product, Clay and his part have been fighting drakes all the time so I understand that they can have a constant supply, but the rest of the world I running dry yet Lizanne always finds enough to have full green, red and black.....which there should be running out faster than the other colours. (hide spoiler)]

Trumane (view spoiler)[ he went from a cocky commander but with a sound reasoning to an irritating little b.....
his "hate for Hilemore is just stupid....he saved him, saved his ship, saved his crew, managed to survive all that time behind enemy lines and he still keeps going after him.... (hide spoiler)]

I'm about halfway listening to the audiobook. Pacing for #3 is very brisk! Stuff happening all over the place. It also makes me wonder how AR will tie up the trilogy.

LOL Speedy Soo!

I'm nearing the halfway point as well, and I'm also very curious to see how he wraps things up. Or rather, who-gonna-dunnit (view spoiler)[since I can assume the action ends with the White's death (hide spoiler)], and how much aftermath cleanup we get to see.

Chapter 18 (view spoiler)[Jack NOOOOOOO! Why are books so hard on animal companions? Jack, they didn't deserve you!!

Hilemore is worrying about how to rendezvous with the group that is going after a sunken aerostat. Well, they're going after a bloody flying machine--I don't think that's going to be a problem. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 19 Varestian (view spoiler)[the written language is described as a combination of phonetics and pictographs--that sounds like Japanese! Though the technical term is ideographs, not pictographs. The use of ideographs means that I can actually read it faster than English though--no voice in my head slowing me down. Though the necessity of looking up words and puzzling out difficult meanings counteracts that. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 20 Jack (view spoiler)[Oh man, I was upset when we saw what happened to Jack from Hilemore's POV in the previous chapter, but now that I know Clay just used, abused, and discarded him, I am even more pissed off. Shame on you Clay!

And yes, I know it allowed Hilemore & co to survive, but you still abused an innocent who trusted you! And it wasn't even his choice! (hide spoiler)]

Filipe wrote: "Tinkerer Yeah I was referring to that part of the trance. It just seems such a convoluted method to pass the knowledge. And the part about it being locked....

And I guess you got to the part os t..."

Pretty much agree with everything. Grrr

re: product: (view spoiler)[I'm half-tempted to go back through and count the number of vials folks say they have left/have on them, then count the number of times they "drain the full vial" etc. Like, in Chapter 20, Clay just drank two full vials of Black. And he'd drunk several vials previously too. Pretty sure those numbers would not add up. It's like he's earning extra lives in a video game. Kinda annoying how product is becoming such a plot crutch--I actually enjoyed that about Scorazin, that there was no product involved and Lizanne had to use her wits. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 21 Racksmith (view spoiler)[Hah! Morradin is taking inspiration from Hilemore's granddaddy! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 22 assembly line (view spoiler)[Lizanne's quote “Every minute spent here is another step to victory. Every bolt, screw and lever we make is worth a thousand bullets.” makes me think of WWII--when every scrap of metal was recycled into the war machine, and slogans like that quote were common. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 23 (view spoiler)[Ok, so not going to arrive by aerostat. Go find Hilemore a-dragonback! Much more classy.

Still want Lutharon to come back. Though not if Clay is going to abuse him like he did Jack.

Synthesized product. Well, there's a way forward without needing to slaughter the drakes. (hide spoiler)]

re: product: (view spoiler)[Yeah it is so dumb. We have not seen a black on the surface since book one( apart from Lutharon and while i can accept some instances( not many as time goes on) where they get fresh supplies in cities, on the boat where would they get it? It makes sense for them to have green for healing and red for the engine and even blue for comms but black should be a very limited supply.

Did Clay drain the mother black they killed completely? Perhaps he is is not using a vial but an oil drumm (hide spoiler)]


Jack (view spoiler)[Jack is just a poor soul in all of this, he was turned into a monster because of human greed, then he meets Clay who in what can be, depending on your point of view, a mercifull yet self intrest driven act removes some of his memories and then he is simply used and abused.

We get some attempt to show that Clay has a bond with Jack but he then just manipulates him into a sacrifice? Ok i understand the trade, one life for many, but come one..... (hide spoiler)]

Filipe wrote: "re: product: Yeah it is so dumb. We have not seen a black on the surface since book one( apart from Lutharon and while i can accept some instances( not many as time goes on) where they get fresh su..."

LOL Oil drum--yeah.

Chapter 29 (view spoiler)[Was very happy to see Lizanne cut the Varestian's crap to the core. Also looking forward to that mother-son combo eating it. (hide spoiler)]

Part III text (view spoiler)[I'm disappointed in Ms. Lewella. I think I'd like Lizanne to punch her. First, she foments a rebellion, ostensibly helping the refugees at first. Then she refuses to do anything to help the fight against the White. Until it has some profit in it for her.

Isn't that the same type of hypocrisy she broke up with Hilemore for? Well, not exactly same. But the type of hypocrisy she derided the Corporatists for, and broke up with Hilemore for keeping his job.

And when is someone going to tell Clay & co that his Aunt is alive? (hide spoiler)]

More inconsistencies--Chapter 35. (view spoiler)[In chapter 26, Tekela got burned by Red blood, so Lizanne poured a vial of Green on it.

Okay, so if we assume that Green doesn't burn like other colors, maybe. But!

In Chapter 35, the harbor is littered with dead Greens and saturated with the blood--Hilemore could see numerous drake corpses bobbing on the surface and knew that in daylight the entire harbour would now be stained a deep crimson. It would probably burn to the touch too, he thought, pondering the grimly amusing notion that, with product now so scarce, he had inadvertently created a vast pool of wealth.

Green should either heal or burn. Not both!

Surprised Ryan's test readers didn't complain about this and the magical vials of holding. (hide spoiler)]

Inconsistencies (view spoiler)[Well green diluted could heal while pure Green could burn but there are situations where they would not have access to diluted green and they use it as if it was... (hide spoiler)]

Part III text (view spoiler)[Lewella is the perfect example that it is easy to be a critic of those who lead but it is hard to be in their shoes. She even broke up with Hilemore because he followe the corporate rule stating that a world rid of corporate rule would be better yet she now sees how infantile that idea was. (hide spoiler)]

Inconsistencies: Do we know how to dilute blood? I don't think that was really covered?

If concentration of blood = danger/burning/harm, then there is no inconsistency. I always took it as the amount of blood + whether or not it's been diluted. Also, the strength of the blood effects differ because there were commentary in #1 about how the captive dragon blood is not as effective as the wild dragons.

Not only that, but the blood user's ability/skill for using blood also affects how much a person can do with blood. Like a strong skilled user can do a lot with a small amount of blood. There's the countering balance that the stronger the user is, the more likely they could get lost in the allure of blood addiction which leads to crazy/etc.

No, we are never told how the process is done but we are told that it has a certain degree of dificulty.

On Book 1 when Clay uses black on the ring we have this

The product was heavily and inexpertly diluted but still left a tell-tale burn on his tongue followed by the buzzing sensation that accompanied the ingestion of Black, like hornets crafting a hive in his chest.

Lizanne also says this in Chapter 1

It summoned another memory, the day of the Blood-lot when the harvester’s pipette left a small bead of product on her hand but, unlike the other children sniffling or bawling around her, produced no instant burn or blackened scab.

And in book 2 whe have this

He could see the Black’s severed neck dangling above, emitting a crimson cascade that coursed down the face of the cliff and inevitably found its way onto the rope. He watched as the bead detached from the rope and descended towards him, impacting on the upper side of his forehead. Had he been un-Blessed there would have been a hard jab of flaming agony as the blood met his skin. Instead, the undiluted substance produced just a warm wet tap, no doubt leaving a pale and permanent reminder in his flesh for the rest of his life, however short that proved to be in the current circumstance. Strangely, the bead’s fall brought a new clarity to his thoughts, banishing the panic and allowing a certain realisation to dawn

So even a drop can do severe damage.

In Book 1 they point to the importancy of diluted blood and we have that highlight that shows the need for some expertise, on book 2 we do have some Green diluted with water but they imply that it was not to reduce potency but because Clay states that undiluted was one of the foulest things he ever experienced and made him sick. That same diluted blood is used to cure but only blood-blessed( Clay, Kriz and Sigoral)

And yes, blood-blessed can have an affinity to one color like Clay has to Black which makes him use that color better

It irks me that we go from a rare and sporadic use of product to basically use it all the time

Chapter 41 (view spoiler)[The Tinkerer's made a mile-radius bomb. Lizanne spares a little worry about the destructive nature of the device.

At this point, everyone is focused on winning against the White. But considering the fractured nature of the alliance that is barely held together by the threat of world destruction--and that two continents, if not three or four, are currently in some stage of civil unrest--what effect will this technology have on the world in the aftermath?

They essentially brought tech (or at least war-tech) up from mid-industrial age to WWI level in the course of a year. Yes, product levels are going to be in flux until they figure out how to manufacture the synthetic, but imagine what implications the creation of essentially non-nuclear WMDs is going to have on the post-drake world?

Not that we'll get to see any of that--unless Ryan chooses to revisit this world with another book I'm pretty sure we're not going to get that far of a glimpse. (hide spoiler)]

Finished the book yesterday, but too wiped out to put my thoughts in order. All in all, was an ok finish to the series.

Finished the book Monday, but too wiped out to put my thoughts in order. All in all, was an ok finish to the series.

Nirkatze wrote: "Finished the book yesterday, but too wiped out to put my thoughts in order. All in all, was an ok finish to the series."

My feelings exactly. It is a good book and i loved some of the scenes and situation. What took it down a notch was that the ending of some plotlines and reveals where just mehh. Some things where being built since the start and then ended in a very basic way

Filipe wrote: "Nirkatze wrote: "Finished the book yesterday, but too wiped out to put my thoughts in order. All in all, was an ok finish to the series."

My feelings exactly. It is a good book and i loved some of..."

Yeah, pretty much. I loved loved the introduction to the world in the first book. I don't know if I've just been more stressed out lately or what, but the second and third were a drop in level for me. I also found myself more bored than excited by all the battle scenes, and book three especially has a lot of battle scenes. Also, the whole product issues kept compounding themselves, to the point where I noticed that more than the positive aspects. Several of the characters started to feel more like caricatures of themselves and it was harder to get a sense of character depth. Still, I enjoyed it, I'm glad I read it, but it's not going to inspire a reread anytime soon, if ever.

Nirkatze wrote: "Part I Text Hey, it's Hilemore's Lewella! Been wanting to learn more about her. But if we only get hints here in these Part texts I'm going to be peeved.

Seems like their split was part political ..."

I like the questions you brought up here! I'd say that experiences and memory shape a lot of who someone is.. Without them, you're a completely different person... So (view spoiler)[ Clay changing the memories of Jack entirely is basically killing who he once was.. Now I don't blame him for it really because Clay has a need to survive as well. He at least kept him alive, but altering memories like that is a big invasion. I just hope he treats him okay after this.. Doesn't quite make up for the altering of his brain/who he his... but IDK. Jack wasn't exactly living on his own at that point either with the White controlling things (hide spoiler)]

Emily wrote: "Nirkatze wrote: "Part I Text Hey, it's Hilemore's Lewella! Been wanting to learn more about her. But if we only get hints here in these Part texts I'm going to be peeved.

Seems like their split wa..."

Good point about Jack being caught between a rock & a hard place--(view spoiler)[being used by the White or being used by Clay... not really much of a choice there, poor boy. At least Clay cares... (hide spoiler)]