Reading 1001 discussion

So since I've read the annual book for this year, I'm doing my own personal substitute annual of a previously done annual by the group, "In Search of Lost Time" (Alternately "Remembrance of Things Past").

This one was originally done on Shelfari before I joined so the original discussion is no longer available, so I have made my own questions for each part of the book from different sources.

If anyone else wants to join in to get a big one off the list, that would be cool. For people who haven't read the official annual, you can still get 9 points total for participating in this one (4 for reading a >1000 pg book, and another 5 for getting in on the discussion for it).

Since there are 60 pts for contributing to the official annual, I thought I would break this one down like this: 8 points for each section commented on (there are 7 parts to the book total), and 4 points for completing and reviewing the book. (Let me know mods if that isn't okay).

Here is my planned schedule:

March- Part 1 (Swann's Way)
April-May- Part 2 (within a budding grove)
June-July- Part3 (Guermante's Way)
August-Sept- Part 4 (Sodom and Gomorrah)
Oct- Part 5 (the Captive)
Nov-Part 6 (The Fugitive)
Dec-Part 7 (Time Regained)

Pt. 1: Swann’s way Questions:

1. Why does the narrator begin his story by describing in such detail his feelings upon awakening?

2. What does the narrator mean when he says that “our social personality is a creation of the minds of others” (p. 19)? Is there such a thing as a core self, according to the novel?

3. What do, respectively, the Guermantes Way and Swann’s Way represent to the narrator?

4. Why is the narrator so strongly and lastingly affected by his first sight of Gilberte, in Swann’s park?

5. Describing works of art, the narrator says that “we will perish, but we have for hostages these divine captives who will follow us and share their fate. And death in their company is less bitter, less inglorious, perhaps less probable” (p. 363). What does he mean?

6. Why does Proust choose not to describe how Swann and Odette were reunited and came to marry?

Amanda, I am really tempted to join you on this annual read. I have Proust on my shelf waiting for me to read for years. I am just not sure that I will keep the pace with you and be able to give you all the answers. But just a couple of thoughts would be also ok?
I have seven parts of the book, but you missed one in your schedule (or I missed something?)?

I did miss a part: oop, will fix today.

And honestly the pace and level of questions are for me to do do a full annual. I think whatever pace and level of commentary you want to contribute it would count. I did this for Romance of the 3 Kingdoms past year.

So if you end up fitting it in at all that would be swell :)

1. One of the main themes of this work is the power of memory and the role it plays in influencing our sense of self and how we perceive and interact with the world. His feelings upon awaking trigger something that is entwined with his memories of his childhood in Combray, which sets off the story.
2. I think the narrator means that both our public persona is affected by how others respond to and interact with us, and that our public persona and reputation is shaped through the lens of how we are perceived by the observer- not our internal self. Largely, I feel like the novel rejects the idea of the inherent ‘core’ self in favor of the idea that we are a conglomerate of our experiences and how the world interacts with us.
3. It seemed obvious to me that the Guermantes Way symbolizes this aspirational path of the nobility and high society in a way the narrator’s family hasn’t perfectly penetrated, despite being a ‘respectable’ family. He sees scenes of some degree of scandal on Swann’s way (Mme. Swann with her lover, Mlle. Vinteuil kissing another girl). Maybe it represents the seedier underbelly of polite society. In both cases, he is a voyeur to scenes he is shut out from at this point in his life.
4. What I remember about this is that he interprets her as rejecting him with a look/gesture.
5. This quote seems to be getting at the idea of immorality through art and legacy.
6. My impression of this is that it doesn’t necessarily involve him or his story so he hand waves it.

Pt 2: Within a Budding Grove:

1. "I want my work to be a sort of cathedral in literature," Proust once said. In his description of the area around Combray – and in many other places in the novel – the Narrator describes churches, and particularly steeples. Indeed, Howard Moss cites the steeple as one of Proust’s most important symbols. In religious architecture, the steeple represents man’s aspiration toward God, and by inference toward Art, the Proustian religion. What else might it suggest? Does it have a counterpart in nature?

2. In his landmark essay on Proust, Edmund Wilson praises the broad Dickensian humor and extravagant satire that animate vast sections of In Search of Lost Time, yet he goes on to call it "one of the gloomiest books ever written." Can you reconcile Wilson’s remarks?

3. Critic Barbara Bucknall maintains that "no Proustian lover really cares at all for his beloved’s feelings." Is this true? Would the Narrator agree? Would the author? Are there any happy or satisfied couples in In Search of Lost Time? Or is love in Proust inevitably a prelude to misunderstanding?

4. The Balbec sequence of Within a Budding Grove gathers a group of the novel’s principal characters, many for the first time: Robert de Saint-Loup, the Baron de Charlus, and Albertine, to name three of the most important. Others begin to emerge in their true significance, like Elstir the painter. Why do you think Proust chose to bring them together in Balbec? In what ways does Balbec echo or amplify Combray? Is the little "society" of Balbec a preview in microcosm of Paris?

Pt 2: Within a Budding Grove:

all righty, finally getting around to answering these questions. Now that I've finished the book, a little while ago actually, I can't say every part is super distinct anymore but here where my general thoughts or part 2:

1. The cathedral Works as a metaphor here for the themes of memory and legacy.Cathedrals are built over generations and outlive the people who originally built them this functions as a parallel to Legacy Within the narrative as it shows Legacy also outlives the people who originally established it and it shows the memory or events that make up once life as Everlasting monuments to their person.

2. I thought this was a great point. And it is true that a lot of times, tragedy is at the basis of great humour. I found the inner machination of the aristocrats to be quite comedic, but it also is underscored by the fact that these melodramas demonstrate how their way of life is dying and later in the book portrays the Specter of war that is hanging over this idle life. it is also quite picturesque and portraying many scenes from the author's life, yet there is that kind of existential melancholy that I feel kind of inherently hangs over reminiscence of the small beautiful things in life given our mortality.

3. I would totally agree with this virtually all of the couples in this book, including all of the relationships the narrator has, seem to be defined by dysfunction of communication and having this selfish ideal of the person at the heart of it. I don't think the narrator would agree at this point in the book and seems to not have insight into the fact that this is what he does to his lovers. I think a Prelude to misunderstanding would be a great way to define love within this narrative, and sadly I think that is often true to life and the ideal of Romanticism itself as a philosophy which I feel has played a large part in this as it holds up pedestal-ization over reality as the main path facet of true love. This also plays really well into the book's themes in that it shows the faultiness of memory compared to reality.

4. I really enjoyed this part of the book. I think Prost chose to bring them together in this scene do you make a tableau of his social life up to this point and to really establish the Dynamics and personalities of all of these people. In some cases, such as with Elstir, it also foreshadows their greater part in The Narrative coming up. I found bold back to be a contrast to combray and it's more pretentious High Society vibe which I think was a great way to bridge the ambience of the first part in combray compared to the parts in Paris coming up.

Overall, I really enjoyed this section and it made me look forward to what the narrator's debut in Paris and in the higher echelons of society was going to look like.

Pt 3: The Guermantes Way (expected schedule: June-July)
1. What do we learn about the relationship between M. and Mme. Guermantes in this section?
2. How does this section explore the upper crust and the idea of aristocratic lineages? Does it show any cracks under that façade?
3. Does the “Geurmantes’ Way” live up to the narrator’s imagined expectations in part 1?
4. Discussion of the Dreyfus Affair occurs in this chapter. How does this historical event relate to other themes or circumstances in the story?
5. What is the state of the narrator’s love life during this section?

I had to review some details since it has now been a hot minute since I finished this book. But to answer the questions:

1. We find out that in many ways they have an unhappy marriage, evidenced by scenes in which Mme. de Guermantes complains at length, in private, about her circle of family and friends, which includes the open secret of her husband's mistress. This creates a fantastic contrast to the esteemed self-important way they detail their lineage and family history at their fancy events, and the sense of perfect aristocratic esteem that makes up their public image.

2. And speaking on that, this serves as one way in which the narrative lampoons the idea of the importance and inherent virtue conferred by having an aristocratic lineage. This, along with the revelations of many affairs and broken marriages behind the scenes helps contribute to this notion that to be upper class truly is a performance- not an actual lived experience of cultural or intellectual superiority. The way Mme. de Villeparisis' salon starts to grow in success even though the landed gentry still consider consider her and it to be classless place also does great work in showing the fading of the so called 'great houses' and into the modern nouveau riche era.

3. It doesn't live up at all. This goes hand in hand with the themes discussed, and is further exemplified through the narrator's observation that Mme. Guermantes' pedestalized charm, wit, and hosting skills do not necessarily the reality of meeting her. It sets the stage for the narrator's continued disillusion with the upper classes as aspirational.

4. The Dreyfus affair becomes a big focus in this volume, with the narrator becoming an avowed Dreyfusard by the end. This was a huge deal in French history it it relates to antisemitism in French society being brought to the forefront, and (often the younger generation's) increased criticism of the empire and the reach of the church. It fits in with some of the antisemitism experienced by the Swann's and Saint-Loup's mistress Rachel, and the political divides between the characters. Thematically, it speaks to the ugly side beneath the proper veneer of French high society, and the changing political climate of the time. On and even larger scale this all relates to the effect of the passage of time and how things change.

5. All over the place. He's following Mme. Guermantes until he is disappointing by truly meeting her, he's speaking to Mme. Swann again, he takes Rachel out. It's a lot.

Part 4 questions:
Pt. 4 Sodom and Gomorrah

1. Louis Auchincloss questions the use of a fictional first person named "Marcel," who is but isn’t Proust. Marcel claims that he is neither a snob nor a homosexual, yet he is obsessed with both. Would Proust have strengthened Marcel’s viewpoint by making it that of the young social climber that he himself so clearly was? Did he enhance or detract from Marcel’s credibility by casting him as one of the few heterosexuals in the book? Does it matter that Marcel regards "inversion" as a dangerous vice? Did Proust? The Narrator’s explicit initiation into the nature of homosexuality occurs while he is waiting in the courtyard of the Duchesse de Guermantes to observe the pollination of her orchid, from which he is distracted by Charlus and Jupien. What is the effect of this particular juxtaposition?

2. The title Sodom and Gomorrah functions on many levels. What does it suggest about the nature of society? What new areas does it open up? How does the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah relate to Proust’s characters? Since the very nature of In Search of Lost Time involves looking backward, should we expect a parallel between the Narrator and Lot’s wife, who was turned into a pillar of salt?

3.
Critics agree that Sodom and Gomorrah opens a new phase of In Search of Lost Time. If the first three volumes represented the Overture and the first movement of Proust’s great composition, with Balbec as an interlude, then the second movement begins here. What seems different? In what ways have the Narrator’s preoccupations changed? Are these changes reflected in Proust’s style or tone?

4. What role does the narrator’s grandmother and her illness have on the story?

1. The way I interpreted this was Proust wanting to write the narrator as heterosexual who thinks of the 'inverts' as having a 'vice' so this book could be widely published when it was. But, because of this, it now comes across a little funny in that this straight protagonist with allegedly limited exposure to the queer community has really long winded complex thoughts about it, supported by a lot of 'inside baseball' knowledge.

I found the association with Charlus and Jupien and the flowers quite interesting. The parallel being drawn here is that flowers only reproduce thanks to insects like bees pollinating by happenstance. He remarks that in kind, homosexual people are typically brought into this world at chance by sorts unlike them as well, making them distinct from many other identities, with having no direct lineage (well, in most cases).

2. It works on the level of the narrator's thoughts about Charlus and his set. I thought Charlus and his sugar-baby acquiring, ridiculous old queen characterization really amusing. It also speaks to the themes of the gross underbelly of the aristocratic world (the affairs, the excesses with their money, their prejudices, their propping up of unjust systems and regimes).

3. The tone really does shift in this section, from one of naïve hope and excitement to being more somber, more cynical. He shifts from this playboy mindset into this obsession with the idea of marrying Albertine, even though he doesn't seem to prize her actual presence. Cue angst ahead.

4. His grandmother's stroke and subsequent descent into full dependence and then death also contributes to this tonal shift in the story. It also serves as an episode that the narrator uses to keep reflecting on what kind of person he really is and the transience of life.

Pt. 5 "The Captive" Questions:

Pt. 5 The Captive

1. Who is the titular Captive in this section and what defines their ‘captivity’?

2. How does the narrator and Albertine’s relationship evolve during this section?

3. Cracks in the old aristocratic world was a theme mentioned previously in these questions. How does l Mme. Verdurin and her bourgeois salon fit into this framework? In recording this change is Proust, in fact, chronicling the birth of modern society?

4. We find out about the death of Swann in this section. What role does his death – as well as his life- play in the narrative?

1. I think the reasonable answer for this one would be Albertine, who is kind of emotionally manipulated by the narrator and his jealousy quite a bit in this section. He does essentially shame her into staying just with him and not going about with her friends. However, from the narrator's perspective it seems to suggest it is he who is the captive, and the captivity is defined as his "can't live her, can't live without her" obsession with Albertine. I suppose in a way they are captive to each other in that they cultivate a highly toxic and codependent relationship that neither of them leave for most of the section.

2. Compared to previous sections where he feels passion and fascination with Albertine, the narrator grows bored by her herself at the beginning of this section, yet his need to have a hold on her increases. It plays out in a way that shows their (well, what seemed to the narrator) passion based infatuation does not translate well to a stable committed relationship.

I say seemingly because it becomes clear in this section that the story of their affair- the way the narrator has described it- likely doesn't portray the truth. We find out she has spent a lot of time in Sapphic circles, particularly with Léa or Mlle. Vinteuil, and while she denies having affairs with either of them, the narrative leaves the space for the reader to interrogate the veracity of that and consider that she has only said this to pacify the narrator. This contributes to his sick sense to fully possess her- that even in his boredom his ego cannot concede her to others- or the possibility her interests were never truly about him.

I think framing her as a bisexual character is a valid reading of the text, but I got the impression reading it that she was a lesbian and just hadn't gotten to a space of full acceptance of that (and that progress was actively inhibited by the narrator in order to prevent her leaving him). As an asexual woman whose coming to full terms with her identity was also inhibited by an emotionally abusive male partner- I was really emotionally invested by this part and completely set against the narrators side, even as Albertine lied to him.

I was glad in the end that she left him.

3) I did enjoy the scene where Charlus usurps Mme. Verdurin's party, but I also enjoyed the part where she gets her social revenge on him and he is literally taken by shock. I think it plays in important role in demonstrating that she is the one with social capital now- the nouveau riche and ambitious hustlers overcoming the aristocracy thinking they can rest on their laurels. In this way, yes it does hark a turn of the modern era.

4) Swann represents in way the 'old world' of the narrator's early life, so his death also serves to convey this sense of the emerging new world and the death of the old.

Pt. 6 The Fugitive

1. Who is the titular fugitive in this section and what are they running from?

2. How is Albertine’s fate and the narrator’s response to it linked to the overarching narrative theme of recollection?

3. How is the “true” Albertine that he seeks to find out about different than the narrator’s idealized one? How does this reflect on the narrative’s themes of memory and social perceptions?

4. How does marriage define the character of this section?

5. The Captive and The Fugitive show the Narrator acting out his own version of the grand passions he has observed so keenly and dispassionately in others. But when it comes to his own affairs, Howard Moss says that the Narrator’s greatest lie is that he is objective with respect to Albertine. To whom is the Narrator lying, the reader or himself? Is he aware of his lack of perspective? If he is mistaken about one of the most important relationships in his life, can readers trust his observations about other subjects and people?

1. This section picks up with Albertine's departure, where she has fled from a relationship with the narrator: which we find out from her friend Andree is at least in part being recalled by her family because they do not want her and the narrator to marry. She is the literal fugitive in the story, but the narrator also experiences distance from the marriage scene that many of his compatriots from the previous parts are becoming a part of.

2. The narrator finds out, near the end of this section, that Albertine has died. He also hears about her extensive lesbian history from Andree in this section, among other things. He reflects, with regret, that he could have loved and accepted Albertine as she was given the time and opportunity. Given how he treated her when he was suspicious and possessive of her previously, this is greatly unlikely. This times into the overarching theme of the fallibility of memory and how it is tainted by so many other factors. It also plays into the point about how the legacy of people is created by others- as we find out that this whole time the 'real' Albertine is different from the construction held by the narrator. Had Andree not come over to tell him the truth, he never would have known a real her at all and would have mourned someone who didn't really exist.

3. Feel like I've answered this in the past 2 questions.

4. Marriage of those around the narrator serve the points of demonstrating a future lost between him and Albertine, but also shows the ways in which the social world is now leaving him behind.

5. I thought this quote was funny, because he was wildly un-objective about Albertine. I suspect we are supposed to read his delusion as sincere and not just planted for the audience, as he likely wouldn't pull the curtain back so starkly about hoe wrong he was about her in this section otherwise. I do think his gross misunderstanding of Albertine serves masterfully to illustrate that the reader should question the authenticity of what he says.

Pt 7 Time regained

1. Many crucial sexual scenes in Proust, including the one just mentioned, are witnessed through the "lenses" of windows, which become a commanding metaphor in the novel. Consider how Proust first introduces the window device by way of the magic lantern slides in Marcel’s bedroom at Combray. How are windows analogous to Proust’s notion of viewing life through a telescope, an instrument that propels images through dimensions of both space and time?

2. How satisfying is the denouement and conclusion of this grand narrative?

3. By the end of the story, which characters did you find the most intriguing, sympathetic?

4. And finally…what did you think of the book and do you think it belongs on the list?

1. Windows, lanterns, etc are used repeatedly in the story to convey the narrative theme of memory being defined by outside perception.

2. I found the denouement and ending satisfying, it really couldn't have ended anyway other than seeing the characters through to older age, and the new high society passing them by in the end.

3. I found very few of the characters sympathetic entirely even if I found many of them intriguing. I really liked Charlus and Jupien.

4. I loved this book! so little really happens for the length of it lol, but the way it satires high society, and explores the role of the construction of others and the social world in our idea of ourselves and collective memory was fantastic. I found it a joy to listen to over the months.