Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

This is a Buddy Read for The Fires of Heaven by Robert Jordan starting March 30, 2022.

Marking my spot.

:)))

lol. Confirmed. That is Shaitarn's spot.

I'm about 2/3 way through book 4, then planning on jumping in to book 5 more or less on time with y'all this time 'round!

I'm on chapter 19, over the last few chapters it seems like things are picking up

I will start tomorrow... Running a tad late...

Chapter 24 and I've yet to see Perrin. Way too much Rand so far. I get that he's the main character, but he's my least favorite. I want to see more of (view spoiler)[ Morgase again. Her last chapter of finally coming out of the fog was so interesting. (hide spoiler)]

Read through Ch. 3... Heavy on the political intrigue from all sides - The White Tower, The Forsaken, The Andorian Court, where obviously Ravin rules by compulsion of Morgase, and anywhere Rand is, still at Rhuidean at the moment... His new "bard" and his relationship is interesting... He seems to be the weakest and least devoted to the Dark One forsaken, it makes me feel almost sorry for him... And once again, Rand is pissing me off with his behavior towards Moiraine and Egwene. It seems he just fights against all those whom he should trust and rely on, while trying to get those who would betray him in a second, to follow him... His teenage rebellion is not fun, when he is supposed to be the savior, and destroyer, of the world as we know it .. But at least Mat is getting some play:)))) Also, I can't believe they haven't learned about the coup in the White Tower yet...

Up to Ch. 14... (view spoiler)[ Siuan Sanche and her little band are kind of funny, the way they are bumbling around, trying to figure out what to do, now that they are stilled... I like how her friend is trying to make up for all the years she wasn't allowed to flirt with men:) I hope she finds fulfillment, and not just waist away, because she can't reach The One Power... Seems like Gareth Brin has a bit of a crush on Mara/Siuan and can't understand why... After all, he had been Morgause's lover for many years, end all of his life, he had served the Andorian Throne. And Gabriel/Ravin has had her manipulated into declaring him almost a treasonous player and had him sent off back to his country seat .. I feel for him, being the last of his line, and totally rejected, after being the best general Andor has had in recent times.

Logaine is acting as if he is running things too. I am glad he has some spirit back, but I don't like how he is behaving with the girls...

Moiraine swore to obey Rand!!!! And she is doing it! Because she had no clue how to go about getting through to him, stubborn ass, and not taking good advice!!! He is infuriating! I wonder if the taint of the male side of the power is already affecting his sanity for real. That is sad and dangerous, because every one counts on him for the final battle and he needs to have his wits about him...

Aviendah is obviously in love with Rand and is pissed about it, but doesn't stop her from being jealous of the women around him. I feel he is going to end up with three sister wives:)))

The Wise Ones are awesome! I love their way of thinking and life:) Wish Rand would listen to them as well...

The rift in the Tower really bothers me. I am starting to be convinced, as Nirkatze said, that the White chick who is with Alyda, is Black Ajah.. They would love to topple the tower from within, because it is the biggest thread to the Dark One and his cronies...

And again, I wonder if some Darkfrieds are behind the breaking away of the Shido from the rest of the Aeil, or if it's just the two leaders of their pack, who are ambitious and want to rule... It is kind of difficult sometimes to tell the difference between pure human ambition and greed at any cost, and the plans for chaos by the Forsaken and The Dark One.

I felt terrible for Elaine and Nanieve, when that Yellow filled them with that root tea... So, Elaida wants them all back in the Tower and has declared Moiraine to be brought back and tried for treason! Moiraine!!! As if there are many who have worked as hard for the good of the Tower as her and Siuan! (hide spoiler)]

I am enjoying the book quite a lot, but there is one thing I don't understand why the author even included in the story so far - why the flirtation of Elaine with Tom? It is not going to go anywhere, obviously, and it just doesn't make sense... She remembered him possibly being with her mother when she was a child, and now she is flirting with him, to what purpose? It doesn't seem to make sense... However, this is my first plot complaint so far in the whole series, so I say Jordan is doing great:))))

Since it seems like the others haven't started this one yet, does everyone want to push the schedule back at all?


Choko wrote: "Up to Ch. 14... Siuan Sanche and her little band are kind of funny, the way they are bumbling around, trying to figure out what to do, now that they are stilled... I like how her friend is trying ..."


(view spoiler)[ Moiraine swearing to Rand definitely surprised me, I'm hoping that it smooths things out between them

Aviendah: Just how many wives is this guy going to have? Is he going to stop with just the three?

I do think that the taint is starting to affect him already. He hasn't gone completely crazy yet, but it is starting. (hide spoiler)]

If you want to, we can push the next one for after everyone catches up with us...

Yeah, I think you are right about Rand .. The insanity is starting to creep up on him, slowly, but definitely...

Just finished Ch. 19... Morgause finally (view spoiler)[ figured out something is not right with Gabriel! I hate how much damage he has done to the Queendome already. Exiled all of her allies, installed only enemies of hers around him, made the guard and the army swear to pretty much him, not the Queen... And she hasn't even found out everything yet .. On top of that, with the way he has been treating her, she is nothing but a joke at court now and he has completely separated her from any possible friends. This is a real coup, if I have ever seen one... This made me so angry!!! Just not right! I hope Rand comes in and takes the f@#$er and his cronies out!!!! (hide spoiler)]

Also, we got a confirmation that (view spoiler)[ Alviren, The White, is the head of the Black Ajah in the Tower! And Padan Fain has his dagger once again... I wish this slime of evil goop would dye already!!!! (hide spoiler)]

22 chapters in, and like you, Elizabeth, I'm finding this volume a bit too Rand-heavy; yes, I know he's the main character, but I still find him the most boring of the three male leads, perhaps because he's more of a familiar character archetype than the other two. I hope we see more of Perrin, but as the cast has grown I wonder if we're going to have volumes with very little or no mention of some characters. Understandable, but it does mean there are going to be so some volumes I don't enjoy that much.

Mat:(view spoiler)[ I'm enjoying Mat's story more than Rand's at the moment. I did wonder why Melindhra sounded as though she was trying to split him away from Rand, with all her comments about earning scars in his own name and standing in Rand's shadow. By the way, I think Egeanin mentioned something about 'the Court of the Nine Moons' in the last book - I wonder if Mat is going to marry a Seanchan noble? (hide spoiler)]

Elayne & Nynaeve: (view spoiler)[I have to say that Nynaeve is starting to really annoy me. Elayne annoys me too sometimes, particularly with her absurd and embarrassing flirting with Thom, but I keep reminding myself she's still a teenager and we were probably all rather silly back then. I find it harder to forgive Nynaeve as she's older and should be a bit more mature. I think Jordan's been emphasizing her faults and the beginnings of character growth in this volume, so I hope she changes in the future. At the moment she's just rubbing me up the wrong way. (hide spoiler)]

Morgause:(view spoiler)[ Finally Morgause has broken free from Gaebril! I think if she goes back to her former friends, the ones she exiled, she'll find forgiveness and help to ferment a counter-revolt and get her throne back. I'm already shipping her and Gareth Bryne, although if she ends up with Martyn Tallanvor ot even back with Thom I'll be happy. I'm looking forward to see how her story develops. (hide spoiler)]

I think the "young man" Martyn Tallanvor is more likely, than Gareth Bryne... I think he has eyes for Siuan Sanche at the moment...

I love the old nurse and the way she is treating Morgause! She needs to hear it from someone who cares about her... A shame she just suspects Gaebril, but doesn't understand the compulsion she has been under. If she did, then I would think she has a chance with her old allies, but at this point, they will not understand... I don't think...

Choko wrote: "I think the "young man" Martyn Tallanvor is more likely, than Gareth Bryne... I think he has eyes for Siuan Sanche at the moment...

I love the old nurse and the way she is treating Morgause! She ..."
I love Lini! I can just imagine her rapping the queen over the knuckles with a wooden spoon if she felt she needed it!

Totally! Lini is awesome!!! I hope we get some more from her ...

I am up to Ch. 26 and finally (view spoiler)[ Siuan Sanche and Min are in Sallie Daera... And they didn't recognize Siuan and Leana... Shiriam is there. Does that mean she is not of the Back Ajah, or have they penetrated both camps??? (hide spoiler)]

Shaitarn, I am so happy you are still with us:) I was worried that it's only me and Elizabeth Left in the reading of the series. I know it's a lot of books and people do fall away from longer series... It's just how it is...

I'm a little farther behind in the audio for this one than I'd hoped to be. I only listen at work, and can only listen while I'm doing other stuff. We've been a bit slower the past couple weeks so I haven't gotten as far as I'd like.

Choko, I've had all the books on my shelf for years - I'm determined to read them all this year!

I'm still planning on reading, but the only-two-weeks between books pace is pretty grueling when I also want to read other stuff. So I'm going to be joining late.

I would be positively ecstatic if y'all were willing to push dates back on the next books...I looked at the fact that book 6 AND 7 are planned for before the end of April and wanted to cry... someone had mentioned that the books are getting longer...shouldn't we leave more time between each for finishing?

I am willing to wait until everyone is done with the book before... I always have a ton of stuff to read, but this is definitely a treat, as well as The Wandering Inn... I can read those just for the pleasure of it at all times...

Which reminds me, in both of those series, someone just discovered matches:))))

I am up to Ch. 43... (view spoiler)[ Well, at long last, the last of the three boys, who emerged from the Two Rivers as virgins, finally got laid!!! And Rand was the last of them, with Aviendah no less, the last of the girls he met... And they did it in Seanchan! And of course, he started saying stupid stuff like , oh, we have to get married now, since we did it, and honor demands it .. That would piss me off big time! We have to, because of honor? Not because you care or love me, or something? No!

The Shido are horrible!!! All those people they are killing, just to make an example, is just unacceptable! What sucks is, that because those are the people of the "tree killer and oath breaker", our Aeil are kind of like, well, they don't count anyway... Rand is going to have a really hard time trying to keep the different groups of people following him from killing each other... The logistics of the whole thing are tremendous. Here is where I feel sorry for him. He is not prepared for all that responsibility and politics, and because of the taint in the Power, he is becoming more and more unstable. How is he going to do it???

Naenieve and Elaine are traveling with the circus:)) And Naenieve is being humbled by bunch of folks, which is hilarious, but what happened to her with the Forsaken and Brigitta was just cruel... I hope she gets back her spirit up and going... Brigitta, I hope she wasn't torn from the Weave of the Wheel for ever! I hope she has other chances to find her love again!!! And now she is the only female warder of a non-full Aes Sedai... So not what The Tower would approve of... Let's see how it works out...

What happened to Leandren, however, I am very pleased with! The evil bitch deserves worse than that!!!

So, Bryne is going to fight for the splinter faction of the Aes Sedai and Siuan is going to be doing his laundry:) I do admire her spirit so much! She just doesn't know how to give up and I love that about her! One of my favorite characters for sure!

Mat is trying to leave again, and I don't blame him. However, they can surely use him as a strategic planner of the battles .. His "other lives" sure know what they are talking about.. (hide spoiler)]

Up to Ch. 50... (view spoiler)[ Naenieve and Elaine back among other Aes Sedai, hahaha! It really chafes that all of their authority and independence is stripped away again... I am going to enjoy seeing how they are going to deal with it... I am glad to see all of their road companions are staying with them for now though... (hide spoiler)]

Ch. 51 ... (view spoiler)[ Morgause is dead????? No, it must be Ravin's statement, so he could proclaim himself a King. I guess she ran away and hasn't been caught...

I do finally like Rand's response to the news. Ravin has to be taken down!!! Has to! I am glad he has back up in the ladies, but I hate how he wants to protect all women, but doesn't spare a thought for Moiraine's safety...

Poor Mat! He is mixed up in this insanity, no matter what his personal wants... I am starting to like him more and more... (hide spoiler)]

Ch. 51 ... no!!!! (view spoiler)[ Why??? This was shocking! Poor Mat! I don't understand... Was Melindra a Darkfried? Was she the one who was communicating with the paddler, who killed the other woman? ... And yes, apparently she was a dark friend... Man, this is upsetting... You can't trust anyone... (hide spoiler)]

Ch. 53... (view spoiler)[ I am crying!!!! Not when things happened, but when he read the letter and then when the Maiden of the Spear talked with him... Just broke my heart... (hide spoiler)]

Okay, finally getting started! Going to read the prologue before bed. Excited to be back in the world!

I think you will love it!

Dedication:
For Harriet
The light of her eyes is my Light

One of almost the only things I remember about reading the Wheel of Time 9 years ago is the dedications. This is the first one to Harriet, but I swear every book after this is also dedicated to her. I remember thinking it was so sweet, and gave me a warm fuzzy feeling seeing how much they loved each other.

Especially when I compare it to some dedications I've seen--I remember, I think Patricia Briggs? did a dedication to "coffee and sugar" once. It was funny, but also made me wonder if she'd just run out of people in her life worthy of thanking. Then, there are some books that don't even have dedications--and I wonder again--why pass up on that opportunity? There's something about a book dedication that is just more special than a regular thanks. Not that I think I'd ever write a book, but if I did, there are people in my life who I owe in ways I can never truly repay. Sometimes I think of writing a book just so I could do a dedication to thank them.

Prophecy (view spoiler)[With his coming are the dread fires born again. The hills burn, and the land turns sere. The tides of men run out, and the hours dwindle. The wall is pierced, and the veil of parting raised. Storms rumble beyond the horizon, and the fires of heaven purge the earth. There is no salvation without destruction, no hope this side of death.

This sounds very Aiel to me. And with the false Car'a'carn running rampant--and wasn't he talking about taking war into the wetlands? That could be burning the hills. "The wall is pierced"--the mountains between the Aiel & rest of the world are called something like the Dragonwall right? "veil of parting raised" sounds like the black veils the Aiel use--Aiel killing.

Also the name of the translator is "N’Delia Basolaine First Maid and Swordfast to Raidhen of Hol Cuchone (circa 400 AB)"--where is that, I wonder? My first thought was that "First Maid" was like "maidens of the spear" and might be a 600 years ago Aiel thing, but then I realized that First Maid could also be like servant...but the Swordfast? That sounds like a protector rather than servant. Raidhen also sounds like a potentially Aiel name, and Hol Cuchone sounds like it could be one of the hold names. I wonder if this ever comes up again. (hide spoiler)]

Very interesting... I have no idea...

Nirkatze wrote: "Dedication:
For HarrietThe light of her eyes is my Light

One of almost the only things I remember about reading the Wheel of Time 9 years ago is the dedications. This is the first one to Harriet, ..."

Robin Hobb dedicated one of her books to "Caffeine and Sugar, my companions through many a long night of writing" which made me smile. I suppose it's possible she has a couple of cats with those names, but I don't think so.

Ah, it was Robin Hobb then!! That's the dedication I was thinking of.

Prologue (view spoiler)[Glad to see Elaida isn't having a good time in the tower. I wonder if each of the sisters who support her are Black, or just a few? Pretty certain of Alvarin.

And Fain is back! A wildcard.

I had to do some finger-counting to check the Forsaken we've met so far. Two of forgetful names killed at the Eye. Ishamael killed by Rand, Be'lal or something like that taken out of the pattern by Baelfire. That leaves 9. Asmodean in Rand's custody. These four--Sammael in Illian, Rahvin puppeting Morgause as Lord Gaebril. Lanfear hasn't taken a power base--just follows Rand around, and we don't know where Graendal is. Four others we don't know of yet--we've met Moghedian in Tarabon, but we haven't met the others yet--they mentioned Demandred, then there's three more still left.

Seems like so far all the signs point to this book focusing on the civil war in Cairhein + Aiel added to the fire. (hide spoiler)]

Yep... War is the thing... I am so excited for you reading and commenting... It feels as if I am reading it again through your eyes...

Chapter 32(view spoiler)[Did anyone else think of the Riftwar books when they read about Aviendha's gateway? I did wonder if this will give the Seanchan a second way to attack - by opening magical gateways rather than arriving in ships. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 42(view spoiler)[ That last line: "Tears were a luxury he could no longer afford, not even inside." I read that, and suddenly remembered in book 1 how Rand was so excited there were going to be fireworks and a gleeman at the spring celebration that year, and almost wanted to weep for him. All of them have had to grow up so fast. (hide spoiler)]

Shaitarn, it is heartbreaking, when you juxtapose the editable, almost naive and earnest kids that they were, to couple of years later, the hardened adults they were forced by circumstances to become... That is so harsh, particularly when you think of, seeing in those possible lives, that their dreams were of simple lives with love and loved ones around them...

I'll be honest, I typically ignore the dedications in books. I can't remember the last one of those that I read.

Finished a couple days ago, not sure where exactly these happened at, but they were all in later parts. (view spoiler)[ I was so upset that Moraine died. At first I was hopeful that maybe she wasn't dead, but I'm sure now she is. I'm at least glad that she was able to take Lanfear out with her.

I wasn't expecting multiple of the Forsaken to die in this book, but was glad that Ravin was killed too.

I enjoyed the scenes where Nynaneve had the collar on Mogadean. As much as I hate the collars, she had it coming. (hide spoiler)]

As an audio listener I probably butchered the spelling of character names, but hopefully you can tell who I'm talking about.

I am of the mind, that if it's spelled anywhere in the vicinity of the name and we can figure out whom we meant, then it's all good. Fantasy spelling of names is always weird:)

Moiraine!!!!!! Don't even!!! I was devastated! She is my favorite character in the whole series! Then is Siuan and Loial... And what Siuan is going through and the will she is showing to keep on going, is awesome, in my eyes...

Grats on the finish Elizabeth!

I'm supporting Choko on name spellings--it may bug me enough that I have to search out the actual name, but when reading others comments close enough is close enough. :)

I'm in Chapter 1

Leane (view spoiler)[Leane's talk about finding something to fill her life now without the power rang notes with me. Aes Sedai has been so propped up by the culture in the world--revered or hated, you can't deny the power they hold--yet it sweeps up women with the potential to the point that no other path is possible. Leane says "I think perhaps I’ve always felt I was masquerading as someone else, building up a mask until it became second nature. There was serious work to be done, more serious than merchanting, and by the time I realized there was another way I could have gone even so, I had the mask on too firmly to take off." Each life has crossroads, and it is human nature to wonder what would have been if we'd picked a different path. Leane is trying to treat the loss of power as an opportunity to test that.

Also makes me think of the Middle Falls books reading over in Vagabond. (hide spoiler)]

Cameos (view spoiler)[Nifty seeing Gareth Bryne again, even for a minute. I like that WoT brings characters back again and again. Very wheel-like.

And with Bryne pursuing the ladies--hopefully we'll get to see more! I like the sparks that are flying between him & Siuan. That'd be a power couple. (hide spoiler)]

Alteima (view spoiler)[How to make the POV of a horrible person enjoyable? Why, throw an even worse person at them and watch them suffer... (hide spoiler)]

Haha! Everything you said I agree with, and you said it beautifully!

Choko wrote: "Read through Ch. 3... Heavy on the political intrigue from all sides - The White Tower, The Forsaken, The Andorian Court, where obviously Ravin rules by compulsion of Morgase, and anywhere Rand is,..."

Through Chapter 3 as well.

I find it interesting that it was Rand's behavior that pissed you off--for me in Chapter 2 at least, it was the opposite! For all that he's supposed to be the Dragon Reborn, fated to break the world while saving it--neither Moiraine nor Egwene seem to credit him with having two bits of sense to rub together. (view spoiler)[Rand's plan seems pretty solid to me--using the Aiel to stop wars and bring the world's nations to heel, so they can fight Tarmon Gai'don as one. While Moiraine's attitude of "wait and hope for the Aes Sedai to take care of everything for you" might have worked--if she could actually trust all the Aes Sedai--which she couldn't even at the best of times, and if the Aes Sedai would be willing to treat with Rand as an equal, which they aren't. But that doesn't even factor in the bit that we know, and Moiraine doesn't yet--that the Tower as she knows it has fallen.

I like the Aiel's attitude toward Rand much better. They give their chiefs the respect they earn, but no more than that, and none for just being chief. The Aes Sedai don't seem willing to give Rand any respect, and I feel he's earned quite a bit by now. Egwene I can forgive a tad more--she's still blinded by her image of the boy she grew up with. (hide spoiler)]

And I like that Mat describes being drunk as "juicy." lol--it just tickles my fancy for some reason.

Songs & Mat (view spoiler)[It's nice being back in Mat's head again. I like his songs, and I enjoy the bits of past knowledge that he juggles. He makes an interesting comparison to Rand, who is just now starting to have bits of Lews Therin's life intrude. Come to that--I wonder if a trip to through the portal to the... was the second group the snake people? Aelfinn or Elfinn? I wonder if they would be able to grant a wish like to be free of the taint? Will Rand step through the second portal someday, like Mat did?

It's sad that the Aiel only sing during war. I can't imagine living a life without song. (hide spoiler)]

Music is life, as much as books, I totally agree:)))

About Rand in that situation. What pissed me off is that he wasn't thinking strategically when dealing with the ladies, but purely out of refusal to be influenced in any way, being good or bad. It is not smart or productive to refuse good advice only because you dislike the source. Just look at our political situation here in the last 8 years. The two parties refuse to pass even the smallest of compromise, just because G-d forbid, they might agree on something. I absolutely hate that. It diminishes us all...

Chapter 44 (view spoiler)[ 'Only a battle lost is sadder than a battle won.'

Rand is misquoting the Duke of Wellington, who was famously depressed after every battle he fought - 'Nothing but a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won' is how the saying is usually translated. (hide spoiler)]

Thank you, for that tidbit, Shaitarn!:)))

Choko wrote: "Music is life, as much as books, I totally agree:)))

About Rand in that situation. What pissed me off is that he wasn't thinking strategically when dealing with the ladies, but purely out of refu..."

Very true--how would that conversation have gone if both parties were willing to give each other their due? So much of the conflict in the book comes from lack of clear communication. At the very least, Rand could admit that Moiraine wants the best for the world at any cost. Moiraine could give Rand the benefit of the doubt there too.

As for modern politics...I miss the days when being able to change your mind about something was a sign of a good politician, as well as the ability to compromise.

Chapter 5. Poor Aviendha (view spoiler)[She obviously is in love with Rand, and sees her feelings as a betrayal of Elayne. Further, it seems the Wise One's are trying to push her into Rand's bed, probably hoping that if Rand falls in love with one of the Aiel, then he will not break them further. She's caught between a rock and hard place. (hide spoiler)]

Re. Ch. 5 - Exactly! She must be going crazy, with all the notions of honor her people enforce...

Choko wrote: "Re. Ch. 5 - Exactly! She must be going crazy, with all the notions of honor her people enforce..."

So! And (view spoiler)[her asking Egwene if a woman of her people would accept a sister-wife... that would be a way she could keep her honor. She must be dreading facing Elayne again too... I wonder if Egwene could bring Aviendha to Elayne in Tel'aran'rhiod so they can have some good girl-talk. (hide spoiler)]

Just a thought--would anyone be interested/willing to move reading New Spring to after book five?

I know Daniel Greene (whom I trust in matters of WoT) recommends reading there, and to be honest I hate reading prequels after the end of a series... I really lose interest in reading something that happened before when I already know how everything ends. Much rather read it in the middle, when the insights could still bear fruit!

I am good with that...

Yay! One vote! thank you Choko!

Chapter 6--some thoughts on the Moiraine/Rand tension (view spoiler)[This conversation in this chapter was really interesting--who could possibly fail to be moved by Moiraine's heartfelt plea to Rand? But I think she also realized that she couldn't demand his respect as due to an Aes Sedai, and that if she wanted to get through his sheepherder stubbornness, she would have to sacrifice her pride.

The biggest question before her--what is more important? What does she serve first? The Aes Sedai? Or saving the world--and thus Rand? She has to let her Aes Sedai loyalties take second place in order to work with Rand. If Moiraine were not Aes Sedai--and thus bringing the whole baggage of mistrust--would he listen more closely? At least he is starting to see how much she has mentored him. (hide spoiler)]

Also thoughts on the one power (view spoiler)[So, for men, in order to Travel, they must know their starting point very well. I wonder if for women that means they must know their destination? I think back to the scene when Elayne and Egwene tried to see if they could teach Rand something. And the descriptions of power are opposites--surrender v. fight, the way that Rand heated things was the exact opposite of what women were told to do, the black and white Aes Sedai symbols--I wonder if a woman could teach a man--just through trying opposites? (hide spoiler)]