Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

Blindness by José Saramago is our New School Group Read for April 2022.

This is the Spoiler thread.

I finished the audiobook a couple days ago, and for now, I'll just throw out that I was massively relieved to be done.

Out of curiosity, has anyone read The Day of the Triffids? It is a fantastic sci-fi from the 1950s about a green light in the sky that blinds everyone that sees it. I think the fact that I love that book is the number one reason I didn't like this book.

Natalie wrote: "I finished the audiobook a couple days ago, and for now, I'll just throw out that I was massively relieved to be done.

Out of curiosity, has anyone read The Day of the Triffids? It ..."

I finished reading Blindness too, and am very interested in what people think. I'll just throw out that I am rather opinionated on this one.

I have not read The Day of the Triffids but from your description it sounds good. Have you read The Country of the Blind by H.G. Wells?

Telling Quote:

This is the stuff we're made of, half indifference and half malice.

Did you see the allusion to Fahrenheit 451? Someone suggested telling of stories, that maybe someone knew the entire bible :-)

Cynda wrote: "Did you see the allusion to Fahrenheit 451? Someone suggested telling of stories, that maybe someone knew the entire bible :-)"

I did notice that! Very interesting :)

Blindness might have its advantages? The doctor's wife:

What use is my eyesight, It had exposed her to greater
horror than she could ever have imagined, it had convinced her that she would rather be blind.

If anyone is catching the news on the COVID lockdowns in Shanghai, honestly, it sounds a lot like Blindness.

People aren't allowed to leave their houses (even to buy food) and there aren't enough delivery people to get it to them. And, they are being tested for COVID several times a week, and if they test positive (whether or not they are symptomatic), they are forcefully taken to a quarantine center.

They can't take their pets, so some are having to let them run loose so they don't starve. Children have been separated from parents (even newborns) but that has just changed because of protest.

I will comment on the book in another post, but the similarity with the current news really struck me.

Natalie wrote: "I finished the audiobook a couple days ago, and for now, I'll just throw out that I was massively relieved to be done.

Interesting association.

I actually read the book as being less indebted to the sci-fi genre and more indebted to Kafka. To me, the premise of the world being struck with inexplicable blindness seemed reminiscent of the inexplicability of Kafka's premises in The Metamorphosis and The Trial. Saramago also seems to present his ideas, although dark, with the same tinge of dark humour/madness as Kafka as well.

Interestingly, where you feel like you appreciated Blindness less for its association with The Day of the Triffids, I feel like I actually enjoyed Blindness more for its association with Kafka.

I'd be interested to hear what people think of the novel structurally. I must admit that when I initially picked it up, I was somewhat daunted by the wall-to-wall presentation of the text with little to no sentence/paragraph breaks. However, in the process of reading, I feel like I took next to no notice of this feature, as the sentences seemed to flow so consistently into each other. Given the strange sense of blindness you have in reading a book without paragraphs/short sentences (in that you have literally no idea where the book is going to go in the next line), I feel like Saramago pulled this off really well -- in that he achieved something structurally quite experimental, but manages to pull it off in such a way that doesn't completely isolate the reader from enjoying a good story.

How fortunate for me that I have access to both ebook and audiobook. I am afraid that I would have had great difficulty focusing on the text for all the reasons you say.

The novel is truth-telling for those with dark vision of society and revelatory to those with bright vision of society.

Jacob wrote: "Natalie wrote: "I finished the audiobook a couple days ago, and for now, I'll just throw out that I was massively relieved to be done.

Interesting association.

I actually read the book as being ..."

I listened to it and really enjoyed it! Wow! What a story! And I liked the author's writing style. However, I think if I would have read a hard copy the structure that you have described may have bothered me. I like paragraphs, I like chapters, and I am sometimes put off by authors who don't use quotation marks, or have a whole book with no chapters.
So, even though I could have got through it, it may have affected my reading some. But the story was so strong I think that would have come through to me. It was powerful!

I am also glad that I used the audiobook, I didn't realize that was how the book was written until I read reviews. I wouldn't have been able to read it. I'm like you, Terris, I hate books like that. It also explains why the writing, through the audio, often felt stilted.

Jacob - I've only read The Metamorphosis and I can see what you're saying. I do have to say, though, I didn't find anything humorous, dark or otherwise, in Blindness.

I compared it to Day of the Triffids because they both have the same premise, but perhaps their purposes were entirely different. While I found Day of the Triffids compelling and thought-provoking, I found this book, in a word, a mess.

Any book in any genre has to be "believable" but I could not suspend reality for Blindness. Everything felt contrived, melodramatic, and ridiculous. Using Kafka, he made it completely believable that a man could wake up as a giant disgusting bug, but I felt none of that in this book.

I'm glad others are enjoying it and it's fun to read the comments!

Klowey I just realized I never answered you. :) I have not read that book but it's on my list! I do enjoy reading HG Wells.

The problem I have with this dystopian novel is that no force is working for some however twisted idea of the greater good, no governmental or social power is doing anything to resolve the issue of blindness or restructuring society to accommodating blindness.

The narrator operates from dark worldview.

We are all on the ability/disability spectrum. I am on disability side. I question the narrator's understanding of blind people. Is this really the truth of blind people? If they live in Fear. Not all blind people live in Fear. Other personal attributes along with blindness determines the worldview of the blind--as everyone else.

Cynda - That was one of the issues I had as well.

Natalie wrote: "I am also glad that I used the audiobook, I didn't realize that was how the book was written until I read reviews. I wouldn't have been able to read it. I'm like you, Terris, I hate books like that..."

Very interesting to hear your views, thanks so much for the response!

I think for me the dark humor of Blindness probably prevails more directly in the set-up than toward the conclusion. For instance, one of the first people to go blind is, of all people, an ophthalmologist, which feels like an entirely ironic move on Saramago's part. Moreover, the sense I got from Saramago's tone was that it is written with a kind of a dry, disengagement from the events themselves -- there doesn't seem to be an outpouring of emotion/empathy from the narrator toward the plight of the characters. And I think it is the absurdity of this disengagement that, for me, generated an aura of dark humour. As I read this novel in paperback form, it would be curious to see how much of an effect the tone of the narrator of the audiobook has in shaping one's understanding of Saramago's overall tone in the novel.

One of the things that I also found interesting was your issues with how "believable" the book is: in particular, the sense of melodrama that you've suggested. Looking back, I think if I were to re-read the book now (actually consciously looking for it), it would probably stand out as something quite clear to me, but as for when I was actually reading it, the melodrama was honestly something that I wasn't super aware of.

As a point of comparison, I'm reading For Whom the Bell Tolls by Hemmingway at the moment, and I'm finding the melodramatic elements of that book quite frustrating -- as I think, similar to your criticisms with Blindness, it seems to distract the novel from pursuing an overall, cohesive direction. For reference, the book is set up in the first 100 pages as a 007-esque, war-time thriller (which I was quite keen for), but quickly shapeshifts into this moronic, unrealistic, love-at-first-sight melodrama which then goes on for basically the rest of the book. A complete bait-and-switch given the set-up!

So at some point, I'd like to revisit Blindness to see how 'blind' I was to these elements on my first reading.

Anyway, I think the differences in our interpretations really speaks to how the same book can mean significantly different things to different people (at different times too) -- which makes discussions like these so fantastic!

Terris wrote: "Jacob wrote: "Natalie wrote: "I finished the audiobook a couple days ago, and for now, I'll just throw out that I was massively relieved to be done.

Interesting association.

I actually read the ..."

Yeah, it was quite strange, because, like yourself, I would have found the 'oh wow, look at me, I'm not using any full stops or paragraphs'-shtick quite pretentious (and frankly annoying when you just want to enjoy a good story). But in the process of reading it, it was literally like I was completely 'blind' (to use the pun again) to the fact that the sentences were so long/the paragraphs were so sparse; often having to take a step back before I realised that it had been a number of pages since I'd seen my last paragraph.

Perhaps it was this feature that made the book feel so impressive execution-wise to me, but glad you enjoyed the story nonetheless!

I am glad that writers are beginning to leave by the wayside quotation marks. Personal Opinion: so sloppy to write and so slow for eyes to scan.

First, I am really glad that this book was nominated and won because it's on several top 100 lists and I have been wanting to read it, and this group made that happen for me.

Unlike many readers, I didn't actually mind the unusual, non-standard format and punctuation. In fact, the flow of dialogue was fast-paced and refreshing in the context of the plot. However, for me that was probably the highpoint.

Apologies in advance . . .

Yes, I actively disliked this book and found it pretentious. And I am sorry, because several GoodReads friends, and members that I follow, really enjoyed this book. I'm happy they did. It just didn't impress me.

Like Natalie, I didn't find anything humorous, dark or otherwise.

What annoyed me the most was Samarago's breaking 'the fourth wall' to interject moral sayings and philosophizing explanations for a scene he had just written. I was reminded of that famous Escher drawing of one hand erasing the other. Extending that concept to Blindness, Saramago's interrupting, annoying, and embarrassing lecturing supplanted the previous scene, by pontificating on its meaning. As one reviewer put it, "hammering home your metaphors with all the subtly of a rusty crowbar to the face." Or, the analogy I like: Telling a joke and then feeling you need to explain it.



I also felt that Samarago went to great lengths to highlight the sighted woman, as the hero who stands apart from all the rest. I found her to be more cliched and eventually boring. And the other people's behavior and helplessness did not strike me as believable.

The middle section descends rapidly into anarchy and violence (with some truly disturbing and graphic descriptions). As some other reviewers have commented, I can't believe the women (and some of the men) would have put up with the situation as passively as they did.

In general, I found the characters mostly flat and one-dimensional, never compelling or engaging. By the time I was done, I didn't care about anyone or what was going to happen past the last page.

Saramago is quoted as saying:
“I don’t think we did go blind, I think we are blind, Blind but seeing, Blind people who can see, but do not see.”
But I think many other authors have written on the topic of blindness with more insight and depth, among them H.G. Wells in his short story The Country of the Blind and in numerous writings by Jorges Luis Borges.

And by comparison, for creative, well-written books that capture the breakdown of society, the gradual emotional numbness from repeated exposure to pain and suffering, and the hopeless, desperate disintegration of the human spirit, I prefer:
All Quiet on the Western Front
Berlin Alexanderplatz

In the same vein, but as straight-up history of man's cruelty to man, this book does not mince words: A People's History of the United States

Finally, for a successfully disturbing work of fiction, with touches of the surreal and profound questions left to the read to ponder, I recommend: In the Penal Colony by Franz Kafka

And how could I forget Lord of the Flies

Klowey wrote: "First, I am really glad that this book was nominated and won because it's on several top 100 lists and I have been wanting to read it, and this group made that happen for me.

Unlike many readers, ..."

Great review (and great recommendations as well)!

Jacob wrote: "Klowey wrote: "First, I am really glad that this book was nominated and won because it's on several top 100 lists and I have been wanting to read it, and this group made that happen for me.

Unlike..."

Thank you. I've been a bit afraid to 'publish' it. ;-)

I agree Klowey. . . . .and yet I kept reading. . . .Like and Dislike assessments seem to be irrelevant maybe. So often readers say how the book was so good they couldn't put it down. . . .I could put down but found myself returning two or three times a day for quick reads.

Cynda wrote: "I agree Klowey. . . . .and yet I kept reading. . . .Like and Dislike assessments seem to be irrelevant maybe. So often readers say how the book was so good they couldn't put it down. . . .I could p..."

That is how I read it too. I was interested in how it would end. And I have to say that I liked the first third and the last third better than the middle section, which I found relentless, boring, and disturbing.

Klowey wrote: " Yes, I actively disliked this book and found it pretentious. And I am sorry, because several GoodReads friends, and members that I follow, really enjoyed this book. I'm happy they did. It just didn't impress me.."

I rated this book at 5 stars, but this is definitely one of those books that straddles the fine line between brilliant and pretentious and can evoke polarized opinions, both perfectly valid. If you start to question the author too much, it is easy to feel like it's pretentious and overdone.
Recent books I've experienced evoking similar responses are Zweig's Beware of Pity and Booker winner Milkman, both of which I also rated as one of my few 5 star books. Maybe I'm more naive than I think and am willing to accept what other more discerning readers might call a bunch of 'hooey' by the author because, by doing so, I get to enjoy an incredible ride.
.
My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I plan to start this book tomorrow. I haven't read anyone's comments yet other than skimming to avoid spoilers. I see several didn't like it, but I'm hoping I feel differently. I often find myself enjoying books that many dislike; so I haven't given up hope.

Greg wrote: "I plan to start this book tomorrow. I haven't read anyone's comments yet other than skimming to avoid spoilers. I see several didn't like it, but I'm hoping I feel differently. I often find myself ..."

Yes, just keep an open mind, Greg. It is very interesting!

I have settled on the word. . . Intrigued. . . .I will be reading Seeing too. Then I will make a decision if I am closer ti like or dislike. I must finish the quest before assessing it.

Terris wrote: "Greg wrote: "I plan to start this book tomorrow. I haven't read anyone's comments yet other than skimming to avoid spoilers. I see several didn't like it, but I'm hoping I feel differently. I often..."

Thanks Terris, and I have high hopes.

There's a very broad range of books that I like - I read deeply, but I tend not to be super-critical. There's a higher bar for books that I love, but there are very few books that I actually don't like at all. Most of the books I will very much dislike I can tell and avoid in advance. :)

Actually, I just barely started this morning, and I like the way it starts. I like that it begins intimately rather than grandly, with a random driver who has to be taken home and who knocks over a vase of flowers. The story pulled me in right away. But of course it's way too early to know much!

Greg wrote: "Terris wrote: "Greg wrote: "I plan to start this book tomorrow. I haven't read anyone's comments yet other than skimming to avoid spoilers. I see several didn't like it, but I'm hoping I feel diffe..."

I think you have a good feel for it already. If you're like me at all, you'll have lots of questions about how everything happens, but the story is just so interesting and really makes you think, you'll get caught up in it right away. I was surprised at how easy the language was. For some reason I thought it would be a hard read, but it was not. I'm anxious for you to get further in and see what you think!

Cynda wrote: "I have settled on the word. . . Intrigued. . . .I will be reading Seeing too. "

I completely agree with the characters being bland - especially the seeing women (who is so insignificant that she is named after who she is married to). I did not know there was a second book. Normally when I learn there is a second book, I go “oh, I wonder what happened to X...?” Not here.

I liked the book very much, but I did not enjoy reading it. Especially the middle part was disgusting.

There are several things I liked a lot:

1) What is this book really about? It had me guessing all the time. There are many small hint in the story. Also the Danish title is “En fortælling om blindhed“ = “A Tale about Blindness”, hinting a bit towards allegory.)

2) The meaning of words change during the story. “Your mother will be here soon.” First it is like what you would say to a boy lost in a supermarket - meaning “any minute”. Then it is a more soothing thing to say perhaps without too much content, and finally it becomes negative, meaning she will have gone blind too because you contaminated her.

I also noticed the huge number of variation of meaning of “blind” and “eyes” and “seeing” all the way to the old children’s game “blindebuk” (“Blind man's buff“ in English?)

Also the announcement comes in full two times. The first time is fairly matter of fact, and second time it is a dark foreshadowing of a total breakdown of all order. I did not compare the words, but I would guess the two announcements are the same.

3) I am not super conservative when it comes to punctuation and grammar. I dislike slang because I cannot look up words I don’t understand. when I read The Road. I ended up understanding the breathlessness feeling of the missing punctuation. Here I just thought it was pointless and did not like it until The Author entered the story, then the point was clear to me: We are reading his story: He is writing long lines including the dialogue, because writing without seeing the line changes are the hard parts. That was an excellent metafiction thingy.

Also towards the end someone mentions that they don’t know what the nice author would be up to. It is ambiguous what author we are talking about. (Right next it is mentioned that he may be left the apartment.)

J_Blueflower the only thing I have a hesitancy about what you said is that the author entered the story. I would say the narrator entered the story. Even when the writer is more or less the narrator, the narrator is never the same personage as the writer. They are slightly different. And that slight difference can allow the writer freedom. (Think of Chaucer with all his layers of narrators.)

This comment is not really you at all. It is about the difference between the writer and narrator. It can be important at times to remember the difference. Like in Chaucer. Like when a reader familiar with a writer says something like: I cannot believe this favorite writer wrote that sentence!

I read the Danish translation. Here the person's "name" is Forfatteren = The Author.

Oh. A detail I missed. Thanks J_Blueflower.

This book is brutal, insightful, and hard to digest. It's presenting people's truest self when confronted with fear of their own well-being and interests while failing to clearly see the moral choices that exist for them.
It was very dark at some points, so I had to watch few episodes of Walking Dead to ease down.

In May I will be reading Seeing to see what happens, how the story completes. I am not exactly looking forward to reading as hoping that somehow the completion of the story somehow satisfies.

Just finished the book. I was reading it slowly, a few pages every day, so it feels like I've been trudging barefoot through filthy streets for ages. I found the text almost hypnotic, like entering into a dream, and I had to step out of it every now and then. That is not to say I didn't like it. I'm glad the book was chosen and that I decided to read it. It was interesting also to read it in a period when the world has experienced a pandemic, with lasting effects on the society. It's of course unrealistic that the whole world would get infected in such short amount of time (imagine the R0 value), but I understand it's a thought experiment. What I did find realistic is how it changed people, how easily we fall apart. Although it's easier to read about unselfish heroes that are in control of the situation, it's easier to imagine that people would get lost and that the chaos would be just as ugly as described.

Nice review.

Even though I didn't like the book much myself, I agree with your comments about how easily people can fall apart (or become desperate). And the extreme lockdowns right now in Shanghai, with people being forcably taken to quarantine centers, makes me shiver to think of this book. The quarantine centers look almost exactly how I imagined them in the book.

“There are only nine meals between mankind and anarchy.”
(Alfred Henry Lewis, 1906)

Klowey wrote: "The quarantine centers look almost exactly how I imagined them in the book...."

I think you could find similar pictures from Danish refugee centers for Ukraine refugees.

Klowey wrote: "... the extreme lockdowns right now in Shangh..."

I was at a party this weekend and we all had read the same article about a Dane escaping the Shanghai lockdown by walking 20 km to the airport with two suitcases at night after 17 days of semi-starvation. He lost 5 kg during those days. The really interesting part is that he had a letter from the The Danish Consulate allowing him to go to the airport and yet he stayed 17 days before leaving.

“ I should never have put up with all this. But it will come gradually. They keep this carrot in front of you all the time. I would never have put up with it if Mette Frederiksen (Danish prime minister) had said that I must not go out and get something to eat. But you do not want to create problems in China.“
source: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/udland/efte...

The point in relation to Blindness is that state and society is able to make people behave more civilized even when they are not “looking”.

The difference between Shanghai and Blindness is the government really does not do anything right at all in Blindness. I am not trying to excuse what is happening in Shanghai, but imagine that Blindness was a real disease, it seems to me that a Shanghai-like lockdown would be the right thing to do.

I wish GR had a Like button. ;-)

Agree.

Though it was a bit of a shock to see the quarantine centers because the pictures are exactly how I visualized the Blindness quarantine centers.

My vision is slightly different. For reasons I will not admit to, my son's father and I were given permission to enter a military base where we stopped our car to watch in some horror a secret government perhaps mental-medical lockdown of sorts. We saw a wooden building that could have been enlisted men's dorms of WWII era or even a small hospital of that same era. Windows were covered by plywood, yet light flickered as maybe a nurse or orderly walked the halls. The front door have a iron covering over it--a heavy-duty security iron gate the kind used where residents and businesses are afraid of break ins. This woukd be for fear of break outs.

The isolation, curfew and panic described in the novel is very relatable to the situation we had during the COVID-19 pandemic. I wouldn't have been able to imagine it if I had read it 2 years ago.

Anjali wrote: "The isolation, curfew and panic described in the novel is very relatable to the situation we had during the COVID-19 pandemic. I wouldn't have been able to imagine it if I had read it 2 years ago."

Definitely not here (Denmark). The isolation: Nope, curfew: Nope. Panic: No actually panic, just two rounds of fairly orderly panic buying.

Where are you?

J_BlueFlower wrote: "Where are you?"
Anjali's point could apply to about any country besides Denmark. Denmark ranked second to Finland at the top of the happiest country list, but that was before Russia invaided Ukraine. So I'd give it to Denmark over Finland as the place to escape to. Be happy with your good fortune to live where you do.

As far as I know actual curfews were rare in Europe. (France and Spain during the winter 2020-21?)

Sweden definitely where far more relaxed. I was traveling in Sweden in the summer 2020. There were no restrictions. Nothing. No face masks. They even had a breakfast buffet at the hotel. I found that rather surprising.

J_BlueFlower wrote: "Anjali wrote: "The isolation, curfew and panic described in the novel is very relatable to the situation we had during the COVID-19 pandemic. I wouldn't have been able to imagine it if I had read i..." I am in India, J_BlueFlower. We had about 2-3 months of strict lockdown, isolation and travel restrictions during the first wave of Covid and about a month again during the second wave. Things are finally back to normal here.

The sense of obligation and the responsibility of having sight weighs heavy on the doctor's wife. The only one to see the disheartening chaotic world around her.