History in Vogue discussion

New thread as promised, since the other one got too long

Hi there everyone!
I hope you're doing well.
Period dramas are big right now thanks to The Bridgertons, which I refuse to watch. (Maybe season 2 if I can get past the inaccucate costumes and the girl who smokes cigarettes.)

I recorded Benjamin Franklin but haven't gotten around to watching it yet. I was surprised it was only 2 episodes for someone who lived such a long and colorful life.

I watched Seaside Hotel on the PBS Passport app. If you like ensemble dramas like Dowton Abbey, you'll like Seaside Hotel. Some of it was more racy than I expected for PBS though. I quit after Season 5.

I did not watch Around the World in 80 Days. I read the book in preparation but heard about the changes and decided to skip it until I forget the book. I recorded it and my parents watched it so I'll probably watch it this summer.

Next up... The Gilded Age. Maybe next week.

On the PBS app I found some lovely Mary Berry documentaries. I hate all the new streaming services. I used to be able to find BBC shows on YouTube all the time but now I can't. She's so lovely and soothing to watch. I liked seeing the stately homes and the modern day nobles who live there. I was surprised to see the Earl of Devon is married to an actress I remember from a 90s show My So Called Life. Their daughter reminded me very much of my oldest niece. It must be the artistic tween girl look.

The Bridgertons is a fantasy piece but I still have a hard time accepting that because my head tells me it's all wrong.

Mary Berry's Country House Secrets
A look at the stately homes of Britain and the lives of the families that live there. Mary shows the viewer how to cook a simpler modern recipe inspired by something that was served in the home long ago. The Earl of Devon's family at Powderham Castle is especially charming. His kids are close in age to my brother's and have the same artistic vibe.

Mary Berry's Simple Comforts
Season by season Mary travels Britain exploring unique occupations and pastimes and cooking up simple comforting dishes for her new friends.

I refuse to watch Bridgerton because of the (view spoiler)[rape (hide spoiler)] issue. I’m all for modernization, but if they update it in positive ways like the race issue, then they could have addressed or changed that as well. I can’t stand Shonda, especially with the mess she creates of issues like that, so I’m not surprised

Marie wrote: "I refuse to watch Bridgerton because of the [spoilers removed] issue. I’m all for modernization, but if they update it in positive ways like the race issue, then they could have addressed or change..."

That was just in the first season and it was in the book but it played out differently in the book from what I read. Julia Quinn said no one had a problem with it 10 years ago when she first published the book. I had a problem with that too so I made sure I read both sides of the issue and both the book and the show. My mom didn't say anything. If the situation was reversed and the husband tried to get an heir off his wife, no one would bat an eyelash because that was normal and legal behavior. (read The Four Swans). I don't like modern people running around a supposed historic setting with modern ideas.

Season 2 is supposed to be more of a slow burn romance- less steamy content from what I heard. I've never seen a Shandaland show and I'm not sure I want to. I also refuse to watch The Courtship which is a reality dating competition similar to the Bachelorette but crossed with The Bridgertons.

I wish Netflix would pick up the short comedy show Black Girl in a Big Dress. It's hysterically funny and cringy at the same time. It's on YouTube currently with no plans for future seasons so far.

My problem isn’t the inclusion of sexual assault, my problem is the handling of the situation, and the positioning of Daphne as a strong female character partially because of it. It’s either “Daphne is a woman, and men can’t be assaulted by women” garbage, or “it’s empowering, she knew better for him than he did, and it strengthened their marriage because he realized she was right”

I’m not a purist. I’m all for historical accuracy, or modernization, as long as it’s done well I don’t have a preference. But this isn’t a historical show, it’s an escapist fantasy soap with barely regency costumes— which is also fine. They didn’t even have to change it, the show runners could have the decency to acknowledge there’s an assault scene in one episode; call a spade a spade. Instead they double down on it being romantic, like Shonda likes to do

It’s not like I would have watched it anyway, historical romance is not my thing. And I seriously doubt they’re concerned by my not watching it

Julia Quinn is also lying, it has always been a thing. There have been large discussions on bookstagram as long as I have been on there, there was a huge thing on booktube back a few years ago too. It just came back with a vengeance when the show said they wouldn’t address it

Marie wrote: "My problem isn’t the inclusion of sexual assault, my problem is the handling of the situation, and the positioning of Daphne as a strong female character partially because of it. It’s either “Daphn..."

I agree with you and I did read about the controversy and both sides of the debate. I barely made it through the first episode. I don't even think I got very far so I didn't see that episode. I also have a problem with tossing in a comment about the queen doing so much for our people and then not following through. It's OK to include in a fantasy but you have to world build to explain what she did and why half the characters are people of color. Otherwise it just sweeps racism and colonialism under the rug without acknowledging it. I'll give them the South Asian women in Season 2 but not Queen Charlotte as an empowering Black woman.

I LOVE Regency romances in the tradition of Jane Austen and Georgette Heyer. These days I'll read the heartwarming "sweet" vaugely Christian ones too. I love the Proper Romance line by Shadow Mountain Publishing, especially Sarah M. Eden's Dread Penny Society The Lady and the Highwayman but I will not read the modern NYT bestselling books that feature modern people running around a historical setting. I will read the authors' blogs though. I really like Two Nerdy History Girls Loretta Chase and Susan Holloway Scott https://twonerdyhistorygirls.blogspot...

QNPoohBear wrote: "Marie wrote: "I agree with you..."

I’ve seen a lot of the strong arguments against her handling of the racial issue as well, and I definitely agree. It’s not just colorblind casting if you’re going to reference the issues, and then hand wave them away. It’s another problem that’s brought up repeatedly about Shonda, even in her contemporary shows, but it’s like she refuses to accept criticism; she made it where she is as a black woman, which is great, so now you can’t question her decisions, even regarding other people — which is not great

Ann wrote: "Marie wrote: "Thanks for posting ..."

I’m the same way. There are some deeply romantic storylines that are my favorite books/films, etc. like Atonement, or The Song of Achilles, a lot of contemporary ones too, but I prefer that it not be the main focus of it. If it falls under the “romance genre” I’m usually not as interested

I know plenty of people who love them, anything from popular contemporary romances, to dark romance, to harlequin/drugstore type books, and that’s great. I’ve never understood the idea of judging other people’s interest. Life is short, and the world is too hard to keep people from something that brings them joy. And I would never assume someone in this group would

I hope you guys had a nice weekend, whether there was a holiday you were celebrating, or not

We celebrated Easter, my mom's birthday (because she was on vacation in ITALY with my dad and no one else) and my birthday. I didn't feel the need to be subjected to my siblings and their evil offspring only two days after seeing them so I made sure they knew I made a cake and we would sing on EASTER.

I did tons of baking while my parents were away and I had the house to myself. I made Finnish cardamom braided bread my grandmother always made for Easter. We're not sure why not traditional Italian bread but it's OUR tradition. I also made her other sweet yeasted bread she shaped into baskets for each grandkid. I just make ONE! I also made a Hershey syrup chocolate cake and bought some Peeps and candy eggs and dyed coconut green to make a little Easter scene on top. My mom made the more traditional foods, my dad's family tradition lamb and eggs (he helped cook) and plain pasta for the kids. She made homemade cheese sauce for the pasta just for me (and anyone else who wanted to try.)

My 98 year old grandmother came over - sprung from her assisted living nursing home for only the third time since she moved in two years ago. She's really gotten more and more confused just since Christmas, I think. I went to visit her twice while my parents were away and she's much more "with it" than most people on her floor but still, she can't remember anything from one minute to the next. It's hard on my mom but I think everyone had a nice day.

Ann wrote: "Wow, that's a lot of baking. The Hershey syrup cake sounds incredibly yummy. It seems like you had a nice day of celebration, for the most part anyway."

My grandmother was a professional baker in their family's Italian restaurant. I can't hope to be half as good as she was but I try to keep the family traditions alive. My nieces knew her but only as a VERY VERY old lady in a nursing home. My nephews and cousins' children don't have that connection so we share stories and recipes. I wanted to make another cake but luckily my niece made a cheesecake so there was plenty of dessert. The chocolate cake is dense and fudgy and best with a glass of milk! I found the recipe online and used up the syrup we had in the fridge since Christmas. The only negative feedback I got was my crazy 9 year old nephew. I don't think he likes homemade cake. He didn't like what I made last year either. He has sensory issues but I know he loves Hershey syrup and chocolate cake but I guess not syrup IN the cake. I don't know. He's ... odd.

Today my parents took me out to brunch for my birthday to a cute diner style restaurant. I had peanut butter fluff French toast. I had a tough time deciding between that and a few other things. My dad couldn't believe the menu and said he'd take me back any time. Mom and I stopped in a used paperback bookstore right next to it. I pulled out my phone and my GoodReads account so I could double check to see if I had read any of the books I wanted and what the reviews said about the ones I had not yet read. Tonight we'll eat handmade fetuccini noodles my parents bought on Arthur Ave in the Bronx (Little Italy) and eat leftover cake.

Ann wrote: "Wow, that's a lot of baking. The Hershey syrup cake sounds incredibly yummy. It seems like you had a nice day of celebration, for the most part anyway."

My grandmother was a professional baker in their family's Italian restaurant. I can't hope to be half as good as she was but I try to keep the family traditions alive. My nieces knew her but only as a VERY VERY old lady in a nursing home. My nephews and cousins' children don't have that connection so we share stories and recipes. I wanted to make another cake but luckily my niece made a cheesecake so there was plenty of dessert. The chocolate cake is dense and fudgy and best with a glass of milk! I found the recipe online and used up the syrup we had in the fridge since Christmas. The only negative feedback I got was my crazy 9 year old nephew. I don't think he likes homemade cake. He didn't like what I made last year either. He has sensory issues but I know he loves Hershey syrup and chocolate cake but I guess not syrup IN the cake. I don't know. He's ... odd.

Today my parents took me out to brunch for my birthday to a cute diner style restaurant. I had peanut butter fluff French toast. I had a tough time deciding between that and a few other things. My dad couldn't believe the menu and said he'd take me back any time. Mom and I stopped in a used paperback bookstore right next to it. I pulled out my phone and my GoodReads account so I could double check to see if I had read any of the books I wanted and what the reviews said about the ones I had not yet read. Tonight we'll eat handmade fetuccini noodles my parents bought on Arthur Ave in the Bronx (Little Italy) and eat leftover cake.

QNPoohBear wrote: "Today my parents took..."

Happy birthday!! I’m glad you had a nice day with your family.

I didn’t know you lived in NYC. Any specific areas you would suggest? I was looking at moving there next year, when I’m done in Tennessee, but I’m also looking at leaving the states.

I don't live in NYC. I live in New England but my parents travel to The Bronx for Christmas shopping. They have the most authentic Little Italy around. Boston has gone commercial and Americanized, Providence is mixed ethnicity restaurants and NYC's Lower East Side's Little Italy is now Chinatown. I had a friend who lived in a rent controlled apartment in Brooklyn and walked across the Brooklyn Bridge each morning to work to save money and bused home after dark. Another friend lives in Jackson Heights but I've never been anywhere in NYC except midtown, Battery Park and Ellis Island with a brief trip to Houston Street to a nightclub for a concert.

The northeast is CRAZY expensive and there's a lack of affordable housing. If you decide to look at Washington, DC, I can help you out there. It's expensive but has become so gentrified that there are new up-and-coming neighborhoods that I never would have dreamed of living 20 years ago. Last time I visited, I stayed at an air bnb apartment in Logan Circle near Dupont Circle. That was nice but a bit of a walk to the metro. Buses take too long. Too much traffic.

QNPoohBear wrote: "I don't live in NYC. I live ..."

I thought I remembered you living in NE, that’s why I was confused when you said NY. I’ve only been to the MET and walked around midtown once. Honestly NYC isn’t at the top of my list. I was looking at Connecticut, and almost bought a place before the pandemic, but it fell through; I’m pretty sure they were selling to people they knew, and it’s better in hindsight anyway. To be honest though Florida is super expensive, especially the area I was in. My bungalow was 600-ish square feet, and it would easily go for 500-700k if it was sold, maybe more as crazy as things are right now. And everything else has some of the highest prices in the country, and definitely not worth it. I’ve been looking seriously at the UK, and my cost of living in London would be lower than Florida

My parents have a house on the CT shore. It sounds expensive. They go into New York a lot but I choose to stay home in the quiet.

I just read a new apartment building is going up in the city where I grew up, near here, and a studio apartment is expected to rent for $1000/month. That's what my parents paid for a studio for me in DC 20 years ago! That was Washington, DC and not a city suburb of the capitol of the smallest state. It's not much more now, I looked it up. New Haven and Boston are also crazy expensive. I looked at apartments online in New Haven based on the salary offered for a temporary job I applied for (and didn't get) and the rent was largely WAY more than the salary could easily afford.

The lesson is: don't live near an Ivy League university! Brown, Yale and Harvard seem to be driving prices up even in suburbs.

We moved to an 1800 sq ft townhouse four years ago. My dad paid more than he planned but it seemed like just the right fit for our needs. 3 bedrooms, 1.5 baths, bus line to work. Dad paid about $400,000 - he offered more to beat out the other offer and had some savings from selling my childhood home. The city is supposedly on a comeback from the former industrial days but I'm not holding my breath. It's right on the border of the neighborhood we wanted to live in- near Brown University- but taxes are less.

Living in London is expensive. Cost of living is higher and you have to factor in commuting time and cost. My cousin and his now wife lived there for a year. They were working so I guess they had the money to do so. I lived in London with a host family for one semester and everything seemed so expensive. It made DC seem cheap. The exchange rate of dollars to pounds has gone down a lot since then though.

All the retirees here in New England say Florida is cheap and they flock there in droves for the winter and some for good. My parents' friends have retired there and one couple retired to northern Virginia because they couldn't afford to stay here.

Ann wrote: "Downton Abbey new movie alert! Downton Abbey: A New Era, releases May 20, 2022. :-) Anyone planning to see it?

(..."

Downton Abbey ended with a jolly cricket match and NO ONE ELSE DIED! ;-D I don't care what anyone tries to tell me! ;-)

I still need to watch The Gilded Age.

I've been enjoying the sitcom "Ghosts" airing on CBS. It introduces history to those who are not history buffs and historians in a fun way. There's VERY little history but it's a cute show. The ghosts include a Viking, a Lenape Indian man, a Revolutionary War officer (and archrival of Alexander Hamilton), a Victorian robber baron's wife (and great-great-great grandmother of the living woman), a 1920s jazz singer, a 1960s hippie, a 1980s nature scout leader and a Y2K stockbroker "bro." The ghosts tell their stories one episode at a time and the rest touch upon the history and culture of the time periods in which they lived. The ONLY topic they've handled well is sexism and how it has pervaded even after women's suffrage and the sexual revolution. The show is geared towards families with older children. I don't think I can persuade my nieces to watch it but I'll try.

Q, is that CBS? I thought it was a PBS show.
Haven't had tv since October, but that was one I was waiting for

"Ghosts" is a sitcom on CBS. It's cute and silly but not completely realistic.

I'm giving up on my parents and going to watch The Gilded Age soon. I got a log in for HBO Max. I hear they're filming season 2 already. Linda are you in it?

I'm trying to convince my dad to get rid of cable and go for the apps we would actually watch (I think there are something like 700 cable channels with about 200 HD). He needs his New England sports and Tampa Bay so he can watch his beloved TOMMY! My mom would be happy with Discovery+ and PBS Passport. I watch both of those, my parents like Amazon and Netflix more than I do.

Hahaha, I haven't tried for a part since I offered to be an extra for Evening

I’ve got HBO, but haven’t watched Gilded Age yet. I need to

I did watch Downton Abbey, and really enjoyed it. I actually didn’t care for the last one, it felt kind of rushed and unnecessary, but this felt more like the show used to. Very sad, but I expected the ending after what they pulled on Maggie Smith to bring her back for another film

I haven't seen Downton Abbey but I might as a separate stand alone story. As far as I'm concerned the show ended with a jolly cricket match, no one else dies and Mary and Matthew will have a few girls and then the heir and spare and they'll be happy until the next war. Heir and spare will be too young to fight or they pull strings to get him a desk job. Personally, if I were Mary, I would have pushed dear Papa and Matthew to break the entail and pass a private bill in parliament to recreate the title on my future son. When Matthew went to war was the time to do it.

I have my brother's HBO Max password but haven't logged in yet. I've been watching Great American Recipe on PBS rooting for Dan! I haven't had as much time to watch TV. I'm back at the museum this time in the archive.

Hey QNPooh, don't know if you have the info, but Coaching Weekend is back! Next weekend!
https://www.google.com/search?ibp=htl...

The cheapest and easiest thing to do is to go into Ford Adams and park in one of the upper parking lots by the road that goes to the Eisenhower house. They drive up to the Eisenhower house, turn around, and then come back down. You can be within feet of them as they clap on by . Of course, if you want to see the clothing in detail, then you would probably prefer 1 of the events at the mansions

This one might be better. So Marie can see the pics
https://www.newportmansions.org/event...

Linda Abhors the New GR Design wrote: "The cheapest and easiest thing to do is to go into Ford Adams and park in one of the upper parking lots by the road that goes to the Eisenhower house. They drive up to the Eisenhower house, turn ar..."

I don't drive and it's a really long bus ride there but it sounds fun! I thought about going but I have a friend visiting during the week and once I see her off, I need to do some paid work. If I don't have work and I feel up to a long bus ride I might come down.

If you do, let me know! I'd be happy to chauffeur you to Fort Adam's to watch. Or Brenton Point, if their route takes them by there. It would be pretty to see them go by with the ocean in the background

Those look so fun! None of the times I’ve been to Newport ever lined up with Coaching Weekend. If I’m finished with the things I’ve got going on and free from Tennessee by this time next year, I might try to go

Not next year, Marie....it's only every two or three years. Some of them come from England, I believe

That makes sense, I’ll try to keep a look out for the next one

Linda Abhors the New GR Design wrote: "If you do, let me know! I'd be happy to chauffeur you to Fort Adam's to watch. Or Brenton Point, if their route takes them by there. It would be pretty to see them go by with the ocean in the backg..."

I wish I could but an hour + long bus ride is more than I can handle at the moment. Some day hopefully my parents will actually stay HOME for once in the Ocean State and not go gallivanting off to the ocean in other states. Coaching weekend is on the bucket list, as is the servants' tour of The Elms.

If either of you are on the Next Door app, a guy named Marc A Olechnowicz posted a brief video this am. (I have to finish all but my books from office ).
Apparently they did not follow the scheduled route. They cut off Brenton point by the ocean, and people who had planned picnic lunches were sitting there for 2 hours yesterday waiting for them. The video only shows 2 of the teams. I don't know if there were more

Linda Abhors the New GR Design wrote: "If either of you are on the Next Door app, a guy named Marc A Olechnowicz posted a brief video this am. (I have to finish all but my books from office ).
Apparently they did not follow the schedul..."

Wow! That must have made a lot of people unhappy. A friend tried to drive to Newport yesterday without knowing what was going on and there was too much traffic so they didn't get all the way there. I lacked sympathy for her because I knew Newport was busy this weekend and even just during the summer in general. I heard the mansions were doing a Gilded Age themed tour and I'm sure that's popular. Then the crew and actors will be back to film season 2.

Yeah, for the same reason that I do not go off off the island after 3 PM on a summer day. Trying to merge into traffic returning from the beaches to get on to route one sometimes backs up as far as the Jamestown bridge. And it just gets longer because of side zoomers. Marie, it looks like this is every 3 years. So set a reminder for it to yourself 3 years from now lol!

Three years, got it!

I didn’t know they were actually filming Gilded Age there

Yeah, there were some trailers parked next to the U for a while, IIRC, they were filming at the Breakers

That makes sense, Julian Fellowes was constantly going on about the Breakers. I’m surprised he didn’t try to get into the Mount too, he’s obsessed with that one

https://www.rimonthly.com/the-real-li...

Marie wrote: "That makes sense, Julian Fellowes was constantly going on about the Breakers. I’m surprised he didn’t try to get into the Mount too, he’s obsessed with that one"

He came to Newport to do a presentation at Marble House and there was a dinner at The Breakers. I couldn't even afford the ZOOM talk. I haven't seen the show yet. I need to dig up my brother's password so I can get on HBO Max and watch it.

They filmed at a few different places from what I read in the paper.
https://www.rimonthly.com/the-gilded-...

I miss Beechwood. There was no need for a TV show when you had the real thing in front of you when the theater company was in residence. I learned a lot about the Astors and life in the Gilded Age that way. I remember we met J.J. once. His introduced himself by his full name and then "My friends call me Jack ASS-tor." I learned the story of Carrie Astor and friends practicing a waltz and not being invited to the ball until Mrs. Astor sucked it up and called on Alva Vanderbilt next door. The last time I went before they sold it, I met Ward McAllister who was a good source of gossip.

I haven't been to Newport in years. We only go when we have visitors we want to impress!

:p
When I used to spend time talking to the owner of the corner liquor store at my 1st apartment here, the fellow who used to be the caretaker at Doris Duke's place would come in and chat. That old guy had the best stories!

Ooh I'm sure the caretaker had great stories to tell about Doris Duke. I considered taking a friend down to Newport just to ride the trolley down Bellevue but my mom gave me kind of a meh answer when I even suggested Bristol/Warren and it's way too long for me to sit on the bus to get all the way to Newport. My sister was there earlier this summer with her husband at something or other- sailing veterans? Veterans? Or maybe just a mini vacation away from the kids.

"Too far"--such a Rhode island answer! :D
Although if I have to start hiking up there every to work in the court system, I'm gonna hate it

I unfortunately spent a lot of time at the Florida Yacht Club that was started by William Backhouse Astor Jr, when I was growing up. The original was downtown, the building it’s in now was built in the 20’s after the first one burned down. Beautiful area, the people were not great

There’s still a lot of north Florida tied to gilded age spring tourism

Linda Abhors the New GR Design wrote: ""Too far"--such a Rhode island answer! :D
Although if I have to start hiking up there every to work in the court system, I'm gonna hate it"

Eaxctly. It's over an hour to Newport by bus.

Yes Marie, I knew that because my dad's cousin lives in Belleair and she pointed out the wealthy Gilded Age history.

I was so jealous when my uncle and 2 out of 3 cousins (and my cousin's 5 year old) went to The Biltmore in Ashville, NC after Christmas. My cousin came through for me and took tons of photos. They told her daughter a princess lived there and I guess little M was so overawed she behaved in the house. The grounds were fine for running around.

Anybody still here? Are you watching Miss Scarlet and the Duke and All Creatures Great and Small? We are watching both although Mom and I do not entirely care for Eliza Scarlet and her adventures. The writers seem to know very little about Victorian London and have Eliza doing some really stupid stuff like (view spoiler)[Going right into St. Giles in her normal workday suit without a care, without an urchin or someone from the inside to help her. (hide spoiler)] She also didn't seem to know that (view spoiler)[most jewels rich people wear are paste. They keep the originals in the safe and wear the copies. Selling jewels when times are tough is normal and not a sign someone has committed a crime. (hide spoiler)]

All the green she likes to wear and the green wallpaper make me nervous she's going to die from arsenic poisoning LOL! I kind of wish she would. She's rather unlikable.

All Creatures Great and Small continues to be lovely and charming. They change up the human stories but the animal stories are coming right from the books. I just READ the 4th book and couldn't remember why the cows were sickening and dying. I remembered just before they figured it out on the TV. I tend to gloss over a lot of the cow stuff. The books have too much of his hand stuck up the business end of a cow for my taste.

Not watching the shows, but still here, Pooh!

Linda wrote: "Not watching the shows, but still here, Pooh!"

Did you find a new job? Are you still down there in Newport? ALLLL the way down there LOL! (it IS an hour and a half bus ride). My dad didn't cancel PBS passport because my parents sometimes enjoy watching some of the shows that have already aired. They started Vienna Blood but I don't think they stuck with it.

No, and yes! Headed toward litigtion

Linda wrote: "No, and yes! Headed toward litigtion"

Oh no! I hope it works out for you but you do know the way things work around here... you gotta know a guy. I know people and still can't get a FT job! I work PT at my own pace and I like that but it doesn't pay much at all. Crossing my fingers it works out for you though.