Reading 1001 discussion

Part 4 (June 1968-August 1968)

Hey everyone, I’m a couple weeks late with this one, but here it is: Our final part of the book! This takes place from June 1968-August 1968.
Here’s a couple questions to consider:

1. Does Gessine seem to evolve/grow at all throughout the narrative? Does Marie change substantially over the year? Do any of the other characters? Which ways is change present and absent, and what does it reflect about the narrative?

2. Does the story (Gessine’s life and her family’s story) seem to build to a conventional climax or point? Or does the narrative approach from more of a ‘and life just goes on’ perspective? Thematically speaking, what do you think this book aimed to convey?

3. Even though we know broadly know how history itself has to play out in this book, were there any event’s in Gessine’s story or the flashbacks that surprised you in this part? What were the standout scenes for you?

4. This book was only translated into English relatively recently, meaning for the longest time it was for a German audience, not an American/English one. Given that, why do you think Johnson chose to place his protagonist in the US? Is this book really about the US, or Germany, or both?

5. And as always, what did you think of the book? Did it earn its place on the list for you?

Discuss!

I am about one-third into book 4.

1. I think Gesine does change a little. Her relationship with DE seems to have evolved (view spoiler)[ - they are now engaged, although she seems less than enthusiastic and at this point I am not convinced the marriage will ever happen. (hide spoiler)] I think Marie has become more independent. She goes out by herself for her own purposes.

2. At the point where I am, it looks like going to Czechoslovakia will be the ending, which is conventional in the sense that it would mark an end to their lives in New York. But I don't know if this will happen either. It frustrates me that Gesine seems so passive in this (and also in her relationships with men, past and present). This is the 1960s, there were plenty of jobs, why not say no and take the risk that the bank will fire her? Why does she see no alternative to going back into a communist country that might see her as a spy or not let her leave, (view spoiler)[and where she can't even have Marie living with her? (Her plan, revealed in almost a throwaway line, is for Marie to live with her friend Anita in West Germany.) (hide spoiler)]

I will leave the other questions for later.

I have been wondering though, is my edition the only one that spells Gesine with one S? It's odd because I think that is the normal German spelling of the name.

I just got to June yesterday. I am just there but I certainly do feel that Marie has shown some growth. Almost beyond here years in many ways. Not sure about mom (Gesine). I think she is growing, maturing but she is a very closed person and I still don’t know if I really have a sense of who Gesine is.

My edition spells it Gesine.

Mine does too weirdly enough: not entirely sure where I found the other spelling on reflection lol.

Part 4 (June 1968-August 1968)

I finished the whole 1668 page monster yesterday and already I miss it. That is certainly an aspect of these annual reads, that they are long and I begin to integrate them into my daily musings. This book in particular, which aligns with a calendar of daily events and thoughts, may linger longer. Also, the nature of the book, which leaned heavily on details but nevertheless never let me know the things I really wanted to know, such as the exact relationship of Jakob and Gesine, or D.E. and Gesine became much like daily existence, things do not wrap up neatly as there is always a tomorrow.

1. Does Gessine seem to evolve/grow at all throughout the narrative? Does Marie change substantially over the year? Do any of the other characters? Which ways is change present and absent, and what does it reflect about the narrative?

Gesine certainly evolves from her school girl days, and this section spends a great deal of time in her school days. She never learns deep trust, certainly not in any of the governmental systems, but nevertheless she does come to cement a relationship with Anita and with her daughter and to a certain extent with D.E. although we are not privy to much of that relationship. I got the impression that she decided to go to Prague, not because of her boss but because of herself. I think she thought it was something she could do, should do for a young socialist country attempting to push forward reforms.
Marie matures, grows up and gains more insights into how the world works and how her unique mother's brain works.
I think the book does an excellent job of presenting the theory that change is constant in this world and that if one does not watch out those lessons we should have learned from history will come around and bite us again. The parallels the book draws between fascist Germany and the imperialist and racist leanings of the US are relevant today.

2. Does the story (Gessine’s life and her family’s story) seem to build to a conventional climax or point? Or does the narrative approach from more of a ‘and life just goes on’ perspective? Thematically speaking, what do you think this book aimed to convey?

Strangely, at the end of the third book, I was getting anxious about Gesine going to Prague seeing, in my mind, her dying or worse at the hands of the Soviets. I was worried about Marie, Anita and D.E., expecting some kind of conventional and tragic ending. Let's face it, optimism isn't one of the big themes of this book. However, somewhere in the beginning of the 4th book when we are forced to dwell deeply in the details of Gesine's school pals and teachers, I realized that I wasn't going to get the answers that I really wanted (about Jakob, about D.E. about Anita and even about Gesine). The "answers", so to speak, that the book offers are in the detailed stories that Gesine remembers of her childhood, her life in NYC and her conversations with the dead or missing. All I was going to get was a final entry on a particularly tragic day in world history. The individuals impacted by that day each have unique stories but we do not hear them.

3. Even though we know broadly know how history itself has to play out in this book, were there any event’s in Gessine’s story or the flashbacks that surprised you in this part? What were the standout scenes for you?

I actually had little knowledge or understanding of the Soviet take over of the independent nations that they folded under their wing after WWII. I had heard of the Stasi control, the neighbor telling on neighbors, a limited poverty. However, I was surprised how the Soviets literally controlled everyday life in East Germany and punished heavily seemingly minor infractions. I, of course, knew of the change of government and the mandating of collective farms etc. but they were participating at a level that seems crazy now, such as the punishment of school children.
I was less surprised by the events taking place in Viet Nam and the United States but even there, there were details that I did not know and made the history even more horrific.

4. This book was only translated into English relatively recently, meaning for the longest time it was for a German audience, not an American/English one. Given that, why do you think Johnson chose to place his protagonist in the US? Is this book really about the US, or Germany, or both?

I think he, and his publisher, thought that the book would not go over well with an American audience who still believed that they had saved the world, while a German audience would see their own history reflected in other countries and be able to relate to their own miseries depicted in the book. I have read that Johnson placed his protagonist in the US because he himself was in the US, on the upper West side of NYC bearing witness to the present day event's differences and similarities to the past.

5. And as always, what did you think of the book? Did it earn its place on the list for you?

Absolutely it should be on the list. It is a very unique book and reminded me of Musil on some level and but also of Faulkner whose works evidently Johnson appreciated. Faulkner was always attempting to capture an era with stories of people's individual lives. It was a very uneven book and there were long sections that I felt could have been left out with no harm done. However, the relationship of Gesine and Marie redeemed quite a bit of the detailed tangents, or what I felt were tangents.

(view spoiler)[ I did look up exactly what happened the day of the invasion in Prague. The Soviets sent in as a first wave, soldiers in plain clothes who took over and secured the airport to prevent other flights coming in and to allow their own heavy transport planes to land un restricted. Secondly they took over all the media outlets. The outside world knew of the invasion on the day it happened. The troops and tanks started rolling across the borders on the night of the 20th, but many were already there for Warsaw Pact maneuvers and therefore didn't even have to cross the border. Also, although the East Germans had lined up their military on the border to help with the invasion, they were told to not move forward at the last minute. The Czech conservatives assisting the Soviets on the ground told the Soviets that the Czech would fight more fiercely against the Germans than the Poles and that therefore they should not use the German forces. The tanks that ultimately decided all issues in Prague did not get there until the 21st.
Given that Gesine and Marie are still on the beach on the 20th, it would seem likely that Gesine's flight, if it was on the 21st, would have been canceled and she would not be in harms way. Of course, she could have flown out the night of the 20th. The author clearly didn't want to make any of this clear to his readers. (hide spoiler)]

I am now on August 9th, about 100 pages from the end, which is two more weeks at my 50-pages-a-week rate.

3. Even though we know broadly know how history itself has to play out in this book, were there any event’s in Gessine’s story or the flashbacks that surprised you in this part? What were the standout scenes for you?

This is inevitably going to involve spoilers...
(view spoiler)[I was shocked by D.E.'s death, which has just been reported at the point where I'm at, and I'm not sure whether to believe it. I assume he was some kind of spy, and so the "plane crash" is probably hiding a different story. But it still could be a different death story. Or will he spring back to life before the end of the book? Gesine doesn't seem to think so, although she seems more concerned about Marie's grief than any grief of her own. I always thought she seemed lukewarm about this marriage. But maybe she is just a private person, hiding her feelings from us...? (hide spoiler)]

I read Gail's spoiler about events in Prague. I also looked into this (view spoiler)[and at the point where I am now, Gesine and Marie are scheduled to fly into Prague arriving at 8 pm on the 20th. The invasion by Soviet troops and capture of the airport didn't begin until 11 pm, so unless the Cresspahls' flight booking changes again, I think they will arrive. What would happen after that I have no idea. There was not much violence so it seems unlikely they would have been killed. I don't know if Gesine has US citizenship? I guess the bank would get her out if she wanted, but would she want to leave or does she hanker to return to the Soviet bloc? And what would that do to Marie and their relationship?

That reminds me of Pavel's Letters by Monika Maron, which we had as a BOTM in July. Maron's mother chose to move with Monika from West to East Berlin before the construction of the Berlin Wall, and it seemed like Monika never forgave her mother for trapping her in the East. I wonder if Marie would be the same... (hide spoiler)]

Good info Rosemary regarding the airplane reservations. I didn't catch that. Funny how I cared very much about knowing that specific historical information and the probable impact on our fictional characters.

Gail wrote: "Funny how I cared very much about knowing that specific historical information and the probable impact on our fictional characters."

I know what you mean! It's like when I read books written around 1900 with child characters and I think "Oh no, these boys will have to fight in WWI..."

Perhaps in their fictional world these historical events didn't happen!

I feel very lost sometimes. I am at July 7.

I have finally finished. I agree it was confusing at times, I thought particularly in the parts about Gesine's school and college activities, and the political shenanigans in Jerichow.

By contrast there was very little detail about the relationship of Gesine and Jakob and his death, which was the impetus for the story in a way - without that, no Marie, and perhaps no New York. I was disappointed to have so little there after all the buildup.

For these reasons, I preferred books 1 & 2 over books 3 & 4. I am glad to have read it all, but I think I would have skipped to the end from somewhere in book 3 if not for this group. So thank you for keeping me reading!

I am still maintaining my chapter a day and I have read up to July 15th if my calculation is incorrect I will have some additional reading at the end of the year LOL.

Things that have struck me in the November section:

"June 23, 1968 Sunday
At midnight the American war in Southeast Asia became the longest in the history of the United States, if we assume that the Revolutionary War ended with the British surrender at Yorktown on Oct 19, 1781"

"July 2, 1968 Tuesday
The Gesine Cresspahl of the Soviet occupation era has started a diary in spring 1947.
It wasn't technically a diary. (And this isn't either, for different reasons; here she's agreed to have a scribe - instead of her, with her permission- write an entry for every day but not of that day.)"

"But it is forbidden to take pictures in the New York subway! A wise Transit Authority rule forbids it, without written permission, signed and sealed."

I think I am on track. I am in August now and have 98% done. I should be set to finish in December. Still can’t say I fully understand these entries.

I find it hard to see growth in the characters, perhaps there just isn’t enough information because of the format. I also think that Marie seems mature for her age but only children often do and in many ways Marie and Gesine are more than mother daughter. It didn’t seem to have a climax or a turning point or if it did I missed it. I think the build up is Czechoslovakia where the trouble is brewing but the end of that is really after the year is over. I never quite figured out the money and Czechoslovak. Was Gesine delivering money to help the movement of Prague Spring? I think Johnson borrowed from his own experience and he had ended up in the US and he had lived at the same address he gave Gesine. His protagonist and he shared similar life experience. His dad died in a Soviet internment camp.

I rated it 3.4. I think it’s legacy is the using a young girl born in Hitler Germany and her life experience of living in Germany during war and occupation and communism. I think it was way too confusing and could have been improved on. I don’t think there was a plot and in the format it was hard to develop the characters. The author chose to focus on history rather than his characters. I think it is a book where the narrator (Gesine) and (History) are both unreliable.

I think the German people probably understood the history more than the US readers.

Uwe Johnson died before this was translated. I guess there was an earlier abridged translation but this is the better translation and it is not abridged.

Yay! I have finally finished. Will add my comments when the Christmas madness is over.

1. Gesine is trying to resolve her past as she tells her story to her daughter. She tells more horrifying details as Marie matures. Marie is eager to hear about her mother‘s experiences growing up as the Nazis gained power and then negotiating the realities of Soviet influence in the GDR. Marie believes she can cope with the truth until the story of the horse, when she declares that she is not able to cope with such details. Gesine confronts the voices in her head and seeks professional advice as she is concerned about the safety of her daughter. Those conversations in italics were finally explained as Gesine‘s imagined conversations with both living and dead. Gesine‘s high school friends change dramatically as they are impacted by the all-pervasive GDR government.
2. As the trip to Czechoslovakia looms the reader already knows that the last entry will be August 20th - the day the USSR invades. So it is building to this climax during the last two months. However there is an unexpected twist which proceeds this, which this reader did not predict. The themes were various: a mother-daughter and father-daughter relationship; ordinary life in extraordinary circumstances;capitalism versus communism and the rôle of propaganda.
3.

3. For me it was the detail of life in a small town as Nazism grew in influence. Although this time in history has been described many times before, I thought Johnson‘s ability to explain what it was like for families whose sons joined the Brownshirts, for example, or the way church ministers navigated ethical swamps was exceptionally powerful. Then, again, life in the GDR has also been described before in books such as Pavel‘s Letters, but here the description of how a rural high school dealt with politics and restless teenagers was absolutely fascinating.
4. Johnson wrote the book while living in the U.S. in 1967-68, so he started it in real time, with daily comments from the New York Times. It took him several years to write the first three volumes which covered 10 months, so he was writing most of it when back in West Germany. The episodes became longer and more of a narrative, possibly reflecting Marie‘s growing curiosity and maturity. The last two months were published quite a few years later. Gesine‘s disillusionment with the United States is contrasted with her earlier experiences of totalitarianism, so the invasion of Vietnam is contrasted with the grip the USSR has on East Germany. The story vacillates back and forth so the two systems of government are compared and contrasted.

I finished last night but was too tired to comment here then. I read this as an day a day and looking back on it this is not the best way to experience the book. There isn't a central narrative and events move back, forth and sideways on various days so that by the time you get back to one narrative it has been a couple of days and the detail is no longer in your mind.

I might have had a better experience with this if I had read it as I would a normal book as that would have left less gaps between the time I read one narrative and when the book returned to that narrative it would have also made it easier to track the characters...but...I do not believe the payoff for reading it again would be worth the time I would lose when I could be reading other books, so I have no plans to attempt a re-read.

Th sections I enjoyed most were the New York Times sections it was fascinating to see what was news worthy at the time and what the newspapers opinion of it all was. Scarily for an outsider a lot of the same events seen in these sections are still occurring in American today, specifically the killing of black men by white police officers.

I appreciate the effort the author put in to writing this time I just never fully engaged with the result.

3 Stars from me.