SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Come talk about your initial, general impressions!

Please save all discussion of particulars, details from the story, character choices, plot questions, etc. for the full spoiler thread.

Content warnings for those who want them: (view spoiler)[ child abuse, colonialization, genocide, death of children, violence, slavery (hide spoiler)] (More about CWs here.)

I read the first couple of pages and bounced hard off of it. Perhaps it’s because I’d just read a bunch of Ursula K. Le Guin’s stories, and her economical, subtle, precise prose is my favorite thing in the world to read. But Coleman’s approach lacked subtlety, and its bluntness and signposting just sent me careening away. Maybe I can come back to it after a bit.

I'm currently having similar problem of transitioning out of a distinct, shrewdly realized series, but I've had this book open on a 'soon to read' tab for at least a month now, so I'm looking forward to engaging with it still.

I think this is a brilliant book :)

(Now that we've balanced our not so subtle first impressions, let's try to keep this thread a neutral ground.)

I’m confused, I wasn’t aware that we were meant to express our impressions in a neutral manner. I’m a bit taken aback by that idea, frankly. Can you please elaborate? What is meant by keeping neutral ground in a discussion thread?

People have asked in the past that the first impressions thread is free from opinions that might put people off from reading the book. I for example have said in the past that "I'm not going to read this book because I've heard things" and others have asked people not to do so, because it might affect how they approach the book.

The spoiler thread is where we can rave or rant to our heart's content, so that the first impressions thread is a safe space for those who don't really want to know much at all before reading the book :)

Okay, I wasn’t aware of that. It’s quite confusing to contemplate, because what I shared were my exact first impressions, which is what the thread is called. I’m always very conscious of not sharing any spoilers. I just don’t see much sense in not being able to see in a thread like this “this isn’t working for me, and that’s my first impression.” Implicit in my post is that it is only *my* impression. I’m not telling anyone else not to engage with this book.

A world in which a first impression thread is intended to allow for people only to express some degree of enthusiasm or happiness as a first impression feels quite antithetical to the spirit of a discussion.

Oh for sure! I didn't mean to say we can only share positive first impressions. "Lacks subtlety of any kind" just leaped out at me as kind of a strong opinion for the very first post in the first impressions thread. I also feel very protective of this particular book, so maybe it's just me reading more into it than you meant to say.

All is good, let's move forward and enjoy the weekend and whatever brilliant books we're reading! ^_^

(I haven't finished my first coffee of the day.)

I understand. Thanks for engaging with me on this. I edited my post to eliminate the phrase “of any kind” because I can see that it’s a bit, well, unsubtle of me to say so.

Also, I feel I should say that a high degree of subtlety in the books I read is something that matters to me, but I do not think that it’s a universal indicator of what others might value in their reading experiences.

I'm going to go into this read for the first time! I'm really looking forward to it even more now, since it's evoked such a powerful response from a fellow first reader.

I just started this today, and am hooked. I can certainly see where Anthony's impression of lack of subtlety came from. Some characters are not exactly presented as having a lot of nuance. But the more I hear or read about the history of the aboriginal schools and the people who ran then, I don't think the portrayals are unreasonable. And some stories, especially those that have long been excused, downplayed or outright denied, may benefit from a more straightforward telling.

The book is very much rooted in our own history. I see nothing wrong with exploring reality with imagination. My mother was an Alaskan Native who was put into a religious-sponsored “school” and taught English (she spoke only Russian), among other things, like how to sew, some nursing aide skills, how to read music. She graduated, but White Christian Alaska, after having taught her how to be a good White Christian refused to allow her to step a foot in many businesses and homes. I have pictures of Anchorage businesses with signs in their shop windows saying, “No Natives Allowed”. The only jobs natives could get were in the canneries, a punishing job, which was seasonal. Until 1971, the state had laws, actual laws, forbidding natives access to any college, especially the University of Anchorage, the only reputable school of higher education. The Russians were sometimes very cruel, and introduced liquor to Alaskan Natives, but they were considered enlightened overlords compared to the racism and murder committed by Americans. Natives were happy about WWII because when American soldiers were stationed in Alaska, the natives finally were able to get more work, education (limited to high school graduation of course) and especially, more food regularly.

This history has been buried, but it was resurrected and placed in public view during the 1980’s, 1990’s. Now the South and the Midwest of America is trying to bury similar histories regarding Black people and Indian peoples in the lower states. Having experienced the hiding of my mother’s traumatic childhood for more than a century, she forbidden to speak and White people in general not being taught anything about what their great-grandparents and grandparents did to aboriginals and slaves, I can only take issue with those who are trying to bury real history again, and I rejoice in any fictional expose of the crushing and murder of aboriginals.

I'm still waiting for this book. It's been a while since I've participated, but I have been very bad at doing this in general for some years now (so I only vote if I really want to read a book and didn't even vote for this month's read because I was taking a mini-break from fiction.)

hope you get it soon!

April, thanks so much for your story, I think already this book has inspired much to think about

Initial impressions were that it was reminiscent of some of the dystopian sci-fi and fantasy that I've encountered here in the country currently known as Canada. Colonialism, and in particular the residential school system that killed thousands of children is a recurring trauma in Indigenous literature. Several books, including "The Marrow Thieves," "Shadows Cast By Stars," and "The School That Ate Children" explore these horrors through the lens of science fiction or fantasy. I know far less about the genocide perpetrated against Indigenous peoples in Australia, but I assume that similar schools existed there as well.

I spent the first few chapters waiting for the big twist, because the story of colonizers abusing Indigenous populations and attempting to assimilate them, stamp out their cultures, and exploit them for resources is such a familiar one that I was waiting to see what about this story was SFF. Not that I'm complaining—a story about resistance and survivance is always a good thing, regardless of the genre. But this clearly wasn't straight realism or I wouldn't have seen it mentioned here.

And the rest of what I have to say will have to go in another thread...

I'm having trouble dealing with some of the content in of both of the botms this month. I may have to set this one aside for a bit.

That's incredibly valid, Ellen! Protect your mental health!

This is waiting for me at my library (yes, it's been a while since I did a group read as I am often a mood reader and/or have other books already stacked up for a month.)

yeah this is not a pleasant read so far. I enjoy some of the writing, and I'm hopeful this will take a turn, but I'm ready for the turn now, and I'm only about 20% in lol

I've been in a bit of a reading slump lately, but I'm trying to get back into it and I really want to finish this book.
I'm in chapter 5 right now and I like the different POVs.

I read the first three chapters. Yes, agree with Anthony, not subtle. I don't mind though. It's clear. Easy to visualize, and can definitely put myself into all the characters' shoes so far, good and bad.

Unless things were to drastically change, I figure I know what we are dealing with here, and assume it is a SF-nal metaphor or retelling of... several times & circumstances that have happened in our past (would be nice if all, and only, in the past). Can imagine a teacher saying to students, "What does this make you think of? Why do you think the author wrote it that way?" and launching some discussions.

So I will feel sorrow for those who suffered, and root for Jacky and Esperanza, and keep going.

P.S. Feature or bug? In the ebook the POV has shifted elsewhere with no signal rule, or squiggly character, or even so much as a skipped line. Probably an error that's not in the printed book?