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The Silmarillion
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⭒October/November 2022 - The Silmarillion [Reflection Questions]⭒
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Favourite character: I can not pick a favourite character! The Feanorians and nolofinweans are so good tho!Least favourite character: Least favourite is definitely maeglin! He’s such a traitor and a whiny kid who should have been grateful
What scene stuck with me the most: Probably the nirneath arnoediad? ( if that’s how it’s spelled) or Feanors death scene
What I think of the writing: The writing is great😌 it’s immaculate I love it! So deep and it really connects with the reader!
Would I read more by the author: Yes! I’m gonna start the history of middle earth when I have more time
Something I’d change: I honestly wouldn’t wanna change anything. It’s all perfect and beautiful. Maybe i would make celegorm and Aredhel fall in love tho
My thoughts on the ending: idk if this counts as a spoiler or not so read with caution! I thought it was heart wretching almost ever died! And if they didn’t die they’re traumatised. It’s sad! But so interesting I love it!
My overall opinion: it's a great read I highly recommend! A little hard to understand but it's good!
Mod
Least favourite character: Least favourite is definitely maeglin! He’s such a traitor and..."
TABITHA! 🥳 It's so strange but so good to see you on GR. 😂❤️❤️
Mod
Furthermore, it says very specifically that Morgoth targeted Fëanor more than anyone else. Fëanor was mentally strong, but he's no match to Melkor, you know? The rape of the Silmarils, the death of (view spoiler), the "betrayal" of his wife (from his point of view)...By the time the Oath was sworn, he must've been mad with grief and loneliness. Again, I'm not excusing his arrogance or his bad actions, but I do feel *great sympathy* toward him, just like Manwë did.
In a text separate from The Silm, Tolkien states that Fëanor will not be released from death even when the Elves whom he killed beg on his behalf. That's harsh stuff. (Don't swear oaths!) But even Tolkien thinks the guy should get a redemption. Some people judge Fëanor too loosely, but some also judge him too harshly.
“Thereafter shall Earth be broken and re-made, and the Silmarils shall be recovered out of Air and Earth and Sea; for Eärendel shall descend and surrender that flame which he hath had in keeping. Then Fëanor shall take the Three Jewels and bear them to Yavanna Palurien; and he [Fëanor] will break them and with their fire Yavanna will rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth.”
2. Who is your least favorite? Why? Ahem. Morgoth, of course!! He ruins everything. ☁ ☁ ☁
3. Which scene has stuck with you the most? The burning of the ships at Losgar. That. Was. Absolute. Madness. 💀
(view spoiler)
But also the see-half-brother-this-is-my-sword thing, the Oath, the Two Trees (view spoiler), Fëanor crying for his father, Ungoliant trying to eat Morgoth, Fingolfin's dual Fingon's (view spoiler), the Dwarves (view spoiler), Maedhros (view spoiler), and ironically, Maglor being all alone for the rest of time.
(view spoiler)
4. What did you think of the writing? I'm going to finish my reread first and then come back to answer this. But The Silm is my favorite novel, so there's no doubt I like it.
5. Would you want to read another book by this author? Yes, please! All the books, please!
6. If you could change one part of the book, what would it be? I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone wants to hear more of my crazy thoughts about this book.
7. What did you think of the ending? (Spoiler tags, please!) (This is not really a spoiler.) In all fairness, Tolkien actually stated in a different manuscript that at the end of time, things would end well (i.e. Morgoth will be permanently gone and Fëanor will finally stop being an idiot). See more here: https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Dagor...
8. What was your overall opinion? Best. Book. Ever. Sorry I'm so biased. 😂 It actually took me multiple attempts at reading this to arrive at this conclusion, but now that I love The Silm, I'll never not love it.
Lily - Books by Starlight wrote: "1. Who is your favorite character? Why? Fëanor. *cringes in fear* Hear me out, please! I'm not one of those #Fëanordidnothingwrong people because I think he did plenty wrong. That's why he's now st..."Okay, that was really fun to read!😅 I totally get what you're saying about Feanor, and I definitely sympathize with him, but I don't think I'll ever like him that much.
And I have to say, I love hearing your crazy thoughts about this book lol.
Mod
Haha, thanks! I usually say I can't decide on a favorite character because that's usually true, but Fëanor has always, always interested me. I never said I liked him as a person. 😂 In fact, I think if he really existed, I'd be pretty against him. But as a character it's somehow different, you know? His psychology is fascinating.
Mod
Least favourite character: Least favourite is definitely maeglin! He’s such a traitor and..."
Oh my goodness, how did I know you were going to say Maeglin for Least Favorite Character? 😆 It's interesting that you like Celegorm but hate Maeglin, though! Weren't they both a little iffy?
Lily - Books by Starlight wrote: "Alison wrote: "Lily - Books by Starlight wrote: "1. Who is your favorite character? Why? Fëanor. *cringes in fear* Hear me out, please! I'm not one of those #Fëanordidnothingwrong people because I ..."Haha yeah, I get you. He definitely is fascinating, even though he's an idiot sometimes XD.
Lily - Books by Starlight wrote: "Alison wrote: "Lily - Books by Starlight wrote: "1. Who is your favorite character? Why? Fëanor. *cringes in fear* Hear me out, please! I'm not one of those #Fëanordidnothingwrong people because I ..."I think there is a difference between a well-written/developed character and a good person. The former is necessary to create a favorite character, but not necessarily the latter. If anything, that complexity of personality and history makes for a more interesting person than someone who is just good, full-stop. I totally get why Morgoth is your least favorite because he is the architect of much of the evil the world experiences, but I think the reason he concentrates so much of his energy towards Feanor is because of how much alike they are. It can be hard to remember that there was a time when Morgoth wasn't evil.
1. Who was your favorite character? Why?Finrod. Just... Finrod. I don't know why, but he's stuck with me since my first read all those years ago. He's so noble and brave, and he sticks to his word even when it's not in his own best interests. his relationship with Amarië is so sweet and sad!
2. Who was your least favorite character? Why?
Celegorm's a jerk. He thinks he's something, and he's really not. One of the best parts is when Beren knocks him off his horse and then takes off with his dog. (Good ole Huan...)
3. Which scene has stuck with you the most?
This is a hard one! I love the very beginning, when Ilúvatar teaches the Ainur the creation song. It's such a beautiful creation myth! I especially like how, when Melkor tries to make things happen according to his own will, it always ends up being part of Ilúvatar's great plan. This sequence has been formative in my current understanding of evil and God's sovereignty over it.
Also, the tragedian in me loves "Of Turin Turambar." I hated it as a child, but now that I'm old enough to actually appreciate it... It's really good, y'all. In a horrible way.
8. What was your overall opinion?
This is the best of Tolkien's works. You can tell that this is the one he spent years creating. It's so beautiful and powerful and just... EEP! I love it.
Mod
Tara, you described it perfectly! Morgoth is, in a way, equivalent to Satan, and I obviously don't like Satan and honestly think it can be pretty dangerous to try to "understand" / relate to / feel empathy for the devil himself.
I do see how Fëanor and Morgoth shared similar traits and even how Men are more like Morgoth than Elves, though. But Morgoth corrupted himself whereas Fëanor's corruption was largely forced by someone else. If it weren't for Morgoth's lies, he wouldn't have been perfect but also wouldn't have rebelled, sworn the Oath, participated in the kinslaying, etc.
M.C. wrote: "1. Who was your favorite character? Why?Finrod. Just... Finrod. I don't know why, but he's stuck with me since my first read all those years ago. He's so noble and brave, and he sticks to his word..."
Finrod!!! 🥰
I love the same scene as M. C. Kennedy.
Mod
Finrod. Just... Finrod. I don't know why, but he's stuck with me since my first read all those years ago. He's so noble and brave, and he sticks to his word..."
I always keep going back and forth on my list of favorite characters, but Finrod has always been on it. Maedhros, Beleg, Fingon, and Melian are also favorites of mine.
Lily - Books by Starlight wrote: "Tara wrote: "Lily - Books by Starlight wrote: "Alison wrote: "Lily - Books by Starlight wrote: "1. Who is your favorite character? Why? Fëanor. *cringes in fear* Hear me out, please! I'm not one of..."What's your opinion of free will in this context? Undoubtedly Morgoth is the father of evil in this universe, but I attribute Feanor's downfall to his own pride and hubris which likely would have gotten him into trouble even without Morgoth's direct help. Perhaps the lesson is that people like Feanor are primed for temptation more so than other people.
Mod
I wouldn't disagree with that. After all, pride goeth before destruction. I think Fëanor, like the Noldor in general, chose to listen to Morgoth's lies and chose to take them to heart. His pride played a part in that, but he also could've chosen to reject the lies (or better yet, to not be prideful in the first place).
What I find interesting is that he really did believe that he was rejecting Morgoth's lies. He thought what he believed was from himself only (i.e. he thought he was immune to Morgoth's influence), and that's pride working.
Mod
I do also remember a line in The Silmarillion that said that in the early days, the Noldor craftsmen would often freely and openly give the gems they crafted to others of their kind and to the Teleri. I can't remember if Tolkien mentioned Fëanor specifically, but as a student of Mahtan and as one of the most skilled among the Noldor, it can be inferred that Fëanor contributed to the gift-giving. Tolkien does specifically say that Fëanor only began hording his wealth after Morgoth was released and began spreading his lies.
Fëanor's mind was poisoned, but even that phrase itself suggests that there was a time when he wasn't poisoned. Before Morgoth's lies, Fëanor seemed motivated to do good and to contribute to society despite his griefs (i.e. his mother's early death and his father's remarriage). Would Nerdanel the Wise—who chose not to stand with Fëanor anymore when he began acting on Morgoth's lies—really have loved, married, and stayed with him if he had "self-corrupted" himself already before Morgoth came? I don't think so.
Unfortunately, most people have at least a little pride in them. But most of us have not been thought to have caused our mother's death, seen our father's slaughtered body, had our life's work stolen from us, and been singled out by the most powerful being of evil in the universe.
I know that biblically speaking, godly men have stayed faithful in similar circumstances with the help of God, but it sounded to me like Fëanor was isolated with only his will to fight against Morgoth. Whether self inflicted or not, could we really say with surety that we'd do much better than Fëanor did if put into his exact situation from the beginning? It feels a little prideful to be so certain that our character is better than his when we've never experienced what he has.
Mod
Lily - Books by Starlight wrote: "Sorry that got so long! I just wanted to make sure I explained things as clearly as I could. Again, I'm not at all saying that Fëanor's actions were justified, but I am trying to understand why Man..."All excellent points Lily, and I do not disagree with your assessment of his overall character. Its quite sad that Feanor hated Morgoth perhaps more than anyone else, but yet still fell victim to his manipulations. And as you said, its easy to judge someone else's actions and presume we would have done better, but how can we really know? If anything, in today's world, evil is almost banal and bureaucratic. It makes it much easier to rationalize away.
Mod
Yes, if Fëanor was a political leader in the modern world, I wouldn't support him at all. It just feels like we have more freedom in fiction to ponder different narratives, and of course, "headcanons" can also play a role that would be acceptable in fiction but not acceptable if characters were real-life people in our world today. Would love to hear more about that last thought you had about evil in today's world being banal and bureaucratic!
1. Who was your favorite character? Why? So many of my favorites make appearances in this book! I must admit that after watching The Rings of Power I have formed an attachment to Elrond, one which I did not feel as strong in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. (Not to say I didn't like him then, but Robert Aramayo is a cinnamon roll, and his portrayal of Elrond was spectacular!) But of some new faces, I really liked Melian. She was the brains for much of the operation. And let's not forget about Huan- I loved him so much!2. Who was your least favorite character? Why? I feel like the natural answer to this question is either Morgoth or Sauron, but Celegorm son of Fëanor was so incredibly irritating. He and his brother Curufin just couldn't let things be, and they were such nuisances to the other Elves just going about their business!
3. Which scene has stuck with you the most? The chapter Of Maeglin really resonated with me, and I can't wholly explain why. I related to Maeglin's mother, Aredhel, who grew restless in her realm and longed to explore the distant lands of Middle-earth. When Eöl the Dark Elf ensnared her in his realm and took her to be his wife, my heart broke for her. She bore Maeglin and tried to be satisfied, but her heart ever longed for the light. I felt some sympathy for Maeglin at first, but eventually had no pity left for what he did. The story of these three is quite tragic and stayed at the forefront of my mind for this entire book.
The scene where Beren and Luthien go to Angband to recover one of the Silmarils was also really funny to me. When Luthien shows up in Morgoth's throne room and asks to sing him a song, Morgoth's just like, "Ight, seems legit." Bro was such a simp.
4. What did you think of the writing? The first chunk of this book was very tedious with all the names of Elves and Maiar and Valar, and at times it was too easy to zone out. I think that's where a lot of people lose patience with The Silmarillion. However, once I got past the history stuff and moved on to the more dramatic tales, it was like I found a home in Tolkien's writing once again. It's unique and lyrical, and truly I wouldn't want the stories of Middle-earth to be told by anyone else.
5. Would you want to read another book by this author? I may pick up the Unfinished Tales in the future, but now that I've read The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and The Silmarillion, I've ventured as far into Tolkien's books as most go.
6. If you could change one part of the book, what would it be? I think I'd have to change the chapter Of Beleriand and its Realms. From what I recall of it, there was a lot of description in this chapter about the lands, rivers, and mountains in Middle-earth, and not a whole lot actually happened. I'd condense this or disperse it throughout the other chapters.
7. What did you think of the ending? (Spoiler tags, please!) The ending of this one isn't really a spoiler since it leads into the events of The Lord of the Rings, but that isn't to say I wasn't surprised by much throughout this book! I even made a page of notes for all the "shook" moments I had: (view spoiler)
8. What was your overall opinion? I enjoyed The Silmarillion a lot more than I expected to! Granted, it is a tough read, and at times you have to force yourself to keep going. Now that I've finished it I can see that it is definitely worth it! It befuddles me how Tolkien was able to come up with such a complex history for a world so magical and real. I think every true Tolkien fan should read The Silmarillion- that is, if they're up for the challenge. ;)
1. So many characters are my favorite to be honest. It’s hard to chose with this book just one. But if I had to say, I would choose Eärlindil. He became my favorite because he loved the sea so much as do I. If I thought I could find my dad, I would look towards the water. Also I’m very passionate about astronomy so him actually becoming a star was what sealed him as my favorite. Not to mention his bloodline has bred some of the most important people in middle earth. 2. My least favorite character is Ungoliant. She’s beyond evil. Dare I say she is even more evil than Morgoth. Cunningly driven by greed, she does nothing but destroy. Oh and if all that is enough… She’s a spider 🕷
3. The scene that has stuck with me the most was the scene when Fingron rescues Maedhros. It was unexpected and done out of pure love.
4. Obviously Tolkien never disappoints when it comes to writing. The style reminded me a little bit of how the Bible was written in some narratives. While it lacked the unnecessary details that we’ve come to be spoiled with in modern writing, the details that were given mattered. The color of the swords mattered. Whether or not a character was fair mattered. Whether or not a character had unreciprocated love or not, it all mattered.
5. Yes. Every book by this Author I will read
6. If I could change one thing about the story I would change Túrin’s story and have him not marry his sister.
7. Great ending. Good view of LOTR from an elven perspective
8. The book was excellent and I’ll probably read it again!
Mod
Ugh, I've really missed out on a lot of good conversations that could've happened while you guys were reading The Silm. 😞 I admire your maturity, though, Cat! I wish we could just sit down together over coffee or something sometime and just talk a lot about The Silm together (for example, about what total idiots Celegorm and Curufin are 😆).
1. Who was your favorite character? Why?
2. Who was your least favorite character? Why?
3. Which scene has stuck with you the most?
4. What did you think of the writing?
5. Would you want to read another book by this author?
6. If you could change one part of the book, what would it be?
7. What did you think of the ending? (Spoiler tags, please!)
8. What was your overall opinion?
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