Reading the 20th Century discussion

Set up to continue a digression on the November 2022 buddy read discussion for They Shoot Horses, Don't They?

Use this thread for any music chat you fancy having

The story so far...



Sid... "I just thought I'd mention the rather lovely song They Shoot Horses Don't They by Racing Cars which was quite a hit in 1977 in case anyone wants their nostalgia buttons pressed"



Nigeyb... "Ah yes, Racing Cars, who could forget them? (I had nearly achieved it)

Actually I have a soft spot for 70s comedown maudlin melancholia (a genre I just invented)

e.g. Debris by Faces, or Costafine Town by Splinter, or A Horse With No Name by America

You get the idea"



Sid... "We are clearly soulmates, Nigeyb - and anyone who likes (or even remembers) Costafine Town is a friend of mine. Offhand I would add two great Steve Forbert songs to your list: Going Down To Laurel and It Isn't Gonna Be That Way. (I reckon Steve Forbert is very underrated.)



Nigeyb... "Very enjoyable - thanks.

My biggest passion when it comes to 70s melancholia is the British/Irish artists of the era who seem to have the unmistakeable smell of the rain and the cigarette smoke in their great coats (other coats were available).

One artist who I came across as kid, as a good friend's older sister had it, is an album called Twice Around The Houses by Jonathan Kelly.

Poor old JK never enjoyed much success but it's a great LP that still stands up. Weirdly I once heard Danny Baker extolling its virtues whilst also remarking he'd never come across anyone else who had heard of it.

Anyway, cop a listen to Rainy Town...

https://youtu.be/SoIJYsO0Ueo

You might enjoy it. The whole LP is fab






Sid... "Yes - nice! Slightly clunk lyrics, perhaps, but I like it. His voice has hints of of Michael Chapman and John Martyn, I think - both of whom could be relied on for some high-class 70s comedown maudlin melancholia.

Where do you stand on Mickey Newbury and tracks like Just Dropped In (To See What Condition My Condition Was In)? Another fine singer-songwriter who should be better known, I think. Gretchen Peters has made a fairly recent - excellent - album of his songs, with this great version on it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2u4k...

That Gretchen Peters version of Just Dropped In is fab


I'd only ever heard the Kenny Rogers & First Edition version which I have always assumed is the original (and best one I know), but now you bring up Mickey Newbury I realise that's probably wrong. Although a comment on YouTube suggests that, whilst written by MN, it was first recorded by Jerry Lee Lewis

Sharon Jones did a good soul cover too


Compare and contrast...

https://youtu.be/Pv5CS_fW3d0
Mickey Newbury - Just Dropped In

https://youtu.be/k2KIr4Wnp88
Jerry Lee Lewis - Just Dropped In

https://youtu.be/-0-7fg8oAO4
Kenny Rogers & the First Edition - Just Dropped In

https://youtu.be/lWaKjzh0pFI
Sharon Jones & the Dap-Kings - Just Dropped In


Kenny & First Edition still my fave

MN wrote it. I've only heard the Jerry Lee Lewis version recently and don't much care for it; it's a much more introspective, almost tortured song than he makes it. JLL was magnificent at what he did best - which wasn't this. :o)

I have to say that I feel the same about the Kenny Rogers version. It's a good performance (always true of Kenny Rogers), but doesn't get the song right for me at all. It may well depend on which one hears first, of course - so often we absorb that as the "right" version and others don't quite fit our idea of the song. My first was Newbury himself, which I liked a lot, but Peters nails it, I think; a great, meaningful vocal and brilliant arrangement and production.

I listened to the whole of Jonathan Kelly's album earlier. Interesting. Rain Town is the pick for me. The rest is...OK. I think it's an album I'd have liked a lot in the 70s but things like The Ballad Of Cursed Anna seem very much of their time and not so great now. I have a few old albums I bought back then and liked (Judee Sill and Tir Na Nog spring to mind) which, other than the odd track, haven't aged very well. This may be in a similar category.

I've always been a big singer/songwriter enthusiast (among a lot of other types of music). How about you?

Sid wrote:


"I've always been a big singer/songwriter enthusiast (among a lot of other types of music). How about you?"


Not so much to be honest

We all like Dylan right? If he counts.

Neil Young is pretty good but I was too young for the early 70s boom, so yer Jonis, Jacksons etc passed me by

Back then I was grooving to Glam, then punk, then reggae and after that it's been mainly soul, indie, northern soul, post-punk, hip hop etc.

But I'll give anything a listen and own a ludicrous amount of music on vinyl, CD and digitally, so feel free to recommend anything you feel passionate about. These days I tend to delve back rather than embrace the contemporary but, that said, I do still listen to a surprising amount of new artists too and go see a lot of live music as well.

Next live outing is next week to see a new(ish) group from Hull called Life, and tomorrow night I'm off Northern Soul dancing

Never heard of Jonathan Kelly. Tried listening to Rainy Town - too depressing. Don't think he made it too big over here.

I thought the Jerry Lee Lewis was all right but I wasn't that crazy about the video I watched.

Child of the '60s - still like the Beach Boys, Dylan - i had an older brother who brought all his early music in the house. The same goes for Judy Collins, Joan Baez, Tom Paxton and Phil Ochs.

I recently went to the annual Mountain Song Festival. This is mostly country music as should be evident by the title. Usually a number of good acts. But the rain was so off and on that we didn't stay for the entire show and, thus, missed the headliners, Steep Canyon Rangers. It was for charity - the local Boys and Girls Club. Maybe this'll teach me about getting lawn seats.

Thanks Jan - very interesting


Jan C wrote: "Never heard of Jonathan Kelly. Don't think he made it too big over here"

I dont think he made it big anywhere, although one source I read suggested he gained some popularity in his home country of Ireland.

Sadly he died in May 2020...

http://www.jonathankelly.co.uk/

And here's more about his career....

http://www.jonathankelly.co.uk/page17...

Turns out he had Chaz Jankel in his band for a while. Who knew?

Our tastes differ a bit, Nigeyb. These days I'm much more singer/songwriter, Americana, alt-country etc. orientated. I'm a few years older than you and started learning to play the guitar (to try to impress girls, natch) in 1968, so was keen to hear stuff I could play and sing - hence the singer/songwriters.

Of course Dylan counts! I heard Chris Smither (an unsung genius, IMO) say recently that "without him we wouldn't have a song between us." He's probably right. I was lucky enough to get into Joni Mitchell very early (even though her songs were quite impossible for a musical incompetent like me to play and sing). Paul Simon, Leonard Cohen, Loudon Wainwright III... that bunch of geniuses.

Then I got into bands like The Who, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, The Stones (all of whom I saw live and treasure the memories), some prog and all sorts of other stuff, but never lost my love of a good solo artist with a guitar. Nowadays I look back quite a lot but keep up fairly well with the genres I like. We are especially blessed with fine singer/songwriters at the moment - most of them women - so musically it's a good time for me.

(I still played and sang until last year when a tumour in a bone in my left hand had to be removed, which scuppered me rather, but I may be able to get back to it. Annoying, because I was playing better than I ever had, I think. Hey-ho. The joys of ageing.)

Like you, I have quite a lot on vinyl from the old days, a large collection on CD (mainly classical) and an absurd amount of digital music. All my new music is digital now in order to avoid a very nasty case of Husband Murder by Mrs Sid if I were to bring any more books or music into an already groaning flat.

One thing I do for fun is search my digital collection for a word and copy all the found songs into a playlist, which I then listen to while cooking etc. Currently on "Girl", which is about 2000 tracks long. It's a great way to explore the dustier corners of my collection and be reminded of some gems I'd half forgotten, and the list is so random you never know what's coming next.

Sorry. Gone on far too long. Best not to get me started on music. :o)

Sid wrote: "One thing I do for fun is search my digital collection for a word and copy all the found songs into a playlist, which I then listen to while cooking etc. Currently on "Girl", which is about 2000 tracks long. It's a great way to explore the dustier corners of my collection and be reminded of some gems I'd half forgotten, and the list is so random you never know what's coming next."

So glad you did "go on." I love this idea! And you've put The Beatles "Girl" in my head, which is not a bad thing to be bouncing around in there this Friday.

Thanks, Kathleen. Girl hasn't come up yet, but it's a cracking song from my favourite Beatles album.

I have recently discovered a great music podcast on Audible:
Word in Your Ear by Mark Ellen David Hepworth and Alex Gold

I have read books by both David Hepworth and Mark Ellen and visited the Foyles Christmas evening last year mainly to meet David Hepworth!

Anyway, there was an excellent episode on The Beatles as seen by their roadie, co-conspirator & friend Mal Evans – and Kenneth Womack.

Mal Evans was the Beatles’ right-hand man, their bouncer, bodyguard, gofer, chauffeur, drug-runner, roadie, fellow party animal, confidante and friend. Along with Neil Aspinall he was the man who allowed the band to function daily and catered to their every need. He was such a central cog in the machine that Ringo declared, “now Mal’s left, the Beatles are really over.” Mal’s son delivered his archive of photos, manuscripts and memorabilia to the author, lecturer and world-renowned Beatles authority Kenneth Womack and asked him to write his father’s memoir, and the result – ‘Living The Beatles Legend: On the Road with the Fab Four – the Mal Evans Story’ – has just been published. It sees the whole story through a completely different lens. Among the highlights in this illuminating conversation with Ken you’ll find …


... Mal’s delicate relationships with the band and role as a peace-keeper.


… further proof that Allen Klein “caused despair”.


… why Lennon said life on the road “was like Satyricon”.


… Mal’s brief tenure as Apple’s MD.


… how Cynthia Lennon unknowingly shopped him to his wife.


… the internal world of “the eight outsiders” (the Fabs, Brian, George M, Neil and Mal).


… the reunion with John and Paul at a Harry Nilsson session and the Jesse Ed Davis incident on the Lost Weekend.


… echoes of Mal in John Junkin’s character in A Hard Day’s Night.


… and the tragic and complex circumstances of his death at the hands of the police in 1976.

It has inspired me to start reading the book.

I've been a listener for eons


Agree it's very good

I don't really get much chance to listen to podcasts, but I am pleased I found it. There are just too many to choose from...

That is indeed the issue Susan

This popped up as a Waterstones event:

Tuesday, 3 September
Word In Your Ear: David Hepworth in conversation w/ Mark Ellen - Piccadilly
Join David Hepworth and Mark Ellen for a live episode of their hit music podcast, Word In Your Ear, discussing Hope I Get Old Before I Die.

Join David Hepworth and Mark Ellen for a live episode of their hit music podcast, Word In Your Ear, as they discuss David's latest release, Hope I Get Old Before I Die. From the author of Abbey Road comes the story of how enduring rock icons like Pink Floyd, Bruce Springsteen and many more have remained in the ever changing music game. This is a story without precedent, a story in which Elton John plays a royal funeral, Mick Jagger gets a knighthood, Bob Dylan picks up the Nobel Prize, the Beatles become, if anything, bigger than the Beatles and it's beginning to look as though all of the above will, thanks to the march of technology, be playing Las Vegas for ever.

David Hepworth has been writing, broadcasting and speaking about music and media since the seventies. He was involved in the launch and editing of magazines such as Smash Hits, Q, Mojo and The Word, among many others. He was one of the presenters of the BBC rock music programme The Old Grey Whistle Test and one of the anchors of the corporation’s coverage of Live Aid in 1985. He has won the Editor of the Year and Writer of the Year awards from the Professional Publishers Association and the Mark Boxer award from the British Society of Magazine Editors. He says Chuck Berry’s ‘You Never Can Tell’ is the best record ever made. ‘This is not an opinion,’ he says. ‘It’s a matter of fact.’

Mark Ellen is an editor, writer and broadcaster. He began his professional life on Record Mirror in 1977, and joined the blossoming EMAP empire in the early Eighties becoming editor of Smash Hits and Select, launch editor of Q and managing editor of Mojo. As EMAP Metro’s Editor-In-Chief, he was in charge of their music, film, entertainment and teenage titles, leaving in 2001 to help launch The Word magazine which he edited for 10 years. He contributes to Radios 2, 4 and 6 and a range of newspapers and magazines including The Times, New Statesman, Elle and Private Eye and writes occasional pieces about scuba-diving and cycling.

Word In Your Ear, David and Mark's podcast, has been going since 2006 and is therefore the longest-running conversation about music in the world. This will be the latest instalment.

Please note: Book and ticket option includes a copy of Hope I Get Old Before I Die (RRP. £22) which will be available for collection on the night.

Thanks Susan


Big fan of the podcast - looking foward to the book, and hearing the discussion

I never realised until fairly recently how huge podcasting was. I was, as so always, a little late to the party!

Better late than never Susan 🤠

David Hepworth was at the Foyles Christmas Evening last year and he was charming. I have enjoyed all his books and also liked Mark Ellen's memoir Rock Stars Stole My Life!

Yes. Me too

Susan wrote: "I never realised until fairly recently how huge podcasting was. I was, as so always, a little late to the party!"

I haven't joined the party yet.

Has anyone read, or is intending to read, Street-Level Superstar: A Year With Lawrence

Came across it on Word in Your Ear and it looks fascinating.

Blurb:
Lawrence is the greatest pop star you have never heard of, his dreams of glory thwarted over the past five decades by bad luck and self-sabotage. At sixty-one, he set off on a new to escape poverty, obscurity and the humiliation of kids at the bus stop laughing at him by writing a smash hit. But what is the cost of a dream?

In 1979, Lawrence formed Felt, who released ten albums and ten singles in ten years before splitting up. In 1991, he reinvented himself with novelty-pop outfit Denim. Signed to EMI, riding the wave of Britpop, in 1997, Denim's song 'Summer Smash' became Radio 1's Single of the Week and looked like a sure-fire hit. Then Princess Diana was killed in a car crash. All copies were melted down. Crushing depression, addiction and homelessness followed... but in the face of it all, Lawrence never gave up.

In Street-Level Superstar, bestselling author and journalist Will Hodgkinson follows Lawrence as he rebuilds his life. He gets mistaken for an old lady by an amorous pensioner, is reduced to dragging sacks of 2p coins to his local bank and wanders through London's distant suburbs in search of lyrical inspiration. As they walk together down rain-soaked streets, Will tells the story of Britain's most eccentric cult star. Will he write the greatest song the world has ever known before the year is out? And was it worth sacrificing everything - family, relationships, health, sanity - for art?

Susan wrote:



"Has anyone read, or is intending to read, Street-Level Superstar: A Year With Lawrence

"

I'm a fan Susan

I'm off to an interview and signing with Lawrence and the author, Will Hodgkinson, in mid-September where I will also pick up my copy

Can't wait

So yes, I'll be reading

I love Felt, Denim, Go Kart Mozart, and Mozart Estate

Exciting! Will be interested to hear what you think when you go and what you think of the book.

I am planning to attend the Craig Brown and David Hepworth Waterstones events. Lots to look forward to.

https://www.foyles.co.uk/events/mike-...

This might be of interest to some of us - the talk, the book, or both.

I think you enjoyed Broken Greek: A Story of Chip Shops and Pop Songs Nigeyb?

Looks fab Susan

Does indeed. I was hoping to go to Foyles to see Alan Hollinghurst whose new novel I recently received (gratefully) from NetGalley. However, I have CPD training that evening - noooo! I have consoled myself with tickets to see Mike Batt, which should be fun. I saw you gave Broken Greek a good review, so will add it to my TBR list.

I am looking forward to hearing about your talk with Will Hodgkinson and Lawrence. Another book I really want to read.

Broken Greek is a wonderful read

Good to hear. I will try to listen to it before the talk.

Satisfaction guaranteed....


https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

5/5

For any Who fans:

The Seeker: Pete Townshend and Rachel Fuller in Conversation with Dylan Jones

The Who’s Pete Townshend and writer and composer Rachel Fuller discuss their musical and literary collaboration, The Seeker, reimagining Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha in a visionary double album accompanied by a beautifully illustrated book featuring all the lyrics and narrative.

A publishing and music industry first, The Seeker, authored and composed by Rachel Fuller, features additional music and lyrics by Pete Townshend and performances by Sir Elton John and Bollywood star Sunidhi Chauhan among many others. The Seeker has been recorded with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra and choir. Alongside the complete lyrics and narrative from the album, the adventures and wisdom of Hesse’s iconic novel are brought to new life with striking artwork by Emilia Wharfe.

In an exclusive in-conversation event at Foyles, Rachel Fuller and Pete Townshend will be discussing their project, their journey to Siddhartha, and Hesse’s profound influence on their work, with bestselling author and journalist, Dylan Jones.

Rachel Fuller is a multidisciplinary artist whose diverse body of work spans film, television, ballet and orchestration. A classically trained pianist, she has also collaborated as a composer with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra on projects that include an arrangement of The Who’s iconic album, Quadrophenia, and has recently collaborated with The Royal Opera House on a ballet which addresses neurodiversity in children.

Pete Townshend is the creative force behind The Who, widely regarded as one of the greatest rock bands of all time. It has been 50 years since Townshend wrote the rock opera TOMMY – the multi-million selling album, award winning Broadway Show and film. The Seeker features new orchestral arrangements of some of The Who’s much-loved songs, as well as original solo material written by Townsend for a stage play of Siddhartha in 1976.

This event will be hosted by New York Times and Sunday Times bestselling author Dylan Jones. In the eighties, Jones was one of the first editors of i-D, before becoming a contributing editor of The Face and editor of Arena. He spent the next decade working in newspapers – principally The Observer and The Sunday Times – before embarking on a multi-award-winning tenure at GQ. A former columnist for The Guardian, The Mail on Sunday and The Independent, he is currently the Editor-In-Chief of The Evening Standard.

The event will be followed by a book signing.

Doors will open from 6:45pm.

Tickets: £8 General Admission / £40 Book and Ticket, inc. a copy of The Seeker (RRP £35)
Venue: The Auditorium (Level 6) at Foyles, 107 Charing Cross Road*

Absolutely fab evening at Foyles today, for the launch of Mike Batt's book The Closest Thing to Crazy: My Life of Musical Adventures

He was wonderful and also sang Bright Eyes and The Wombling Song. Great fun.

I can well imagine


Glad you enjoyed it so much

Looking foward to what you make of the book

I have SO many books I want to read and no time at all at the beginning of term, but I am looking forward to them all.

Plenty of treats in store to enliven the long winter nights 🫶🏻

Absolutely. I am currently enjoying Ben Macintyre's new book.

New, and possibly last ever, album by The Cure released today


First impressions are very positive. If it does end here then what a great way to bow out

Catching up with some podcasts this morning and listening to Word in Your Ear and an interview with Graham Nash. Result of which have booked to see:

Graham Nash – More Evenings Of Songs & Stories
The London Palladium
Sun 19 Oct 2025, 07:30 PM
Special Guest Peter Asher

Have never seen Graham Nash live and, of course, Peter Asher looms large in the Beatles world, so will be great to see him too.

I'm working on the outline of a poetry summer school I'm running and am thinking of including song lyrics to show people they already know poetry - any suggestions of lyrics? The obvious is Bob Dylan given his Nobel Prize for literature but I don't know his songs. I'm thinking maybe Kate Bush? Any thoughts?

Chuck Berry . Carole King. Lennon/ MC Cartney . Cole Porter
Lewis Allen ( Strange Fruit ) . Paul Simon . Bernie Taupin. Leonard Cohen .Joni Mitchell . Ray Davies . Don McClean . Leiber and Stoller .

just a few ....have fun

McCartney's Blackbird is a good one as it's linked to the Civil Rights Movement?

Bob Dylan would be great, with the film coming out as well. You could do Hurricane and link that with Blackbird?

Do you have a theme?

Thank you so much, Hester and Susan. I really love the idea of the Civil Rights songs - though the only one I'm familiar with is Strange Fruit. Will certainly look up Blackbird and Hurricane.

Susan, the first day is a full-day 'demystifying poetry' where we'll be exploring technical aspects such as sound, rhythm, voice, imagery etc. And then the following three weeks will be looking at poetry and gender.

I wanted the song lyrics for the full-day introduction to help students (some of whom will be adult learners) feel at home and familiar with the idea that song lyrics are just poetry sung to music.

https://genius.com/Bob-dylan-hurrican...

https://genius.com/The-beatles-blackb...

I don't know, RC, if your participants are likely to be drawn to folk music, but if they are, some of the classic Child ballads might be familiar to them. Also songs by Ewan MacColl (I'm thinking especially of "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face", Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie, Joan Baez (all of whom were also active in the Civil Rights movement). Some of these are doubtless more familiar here in the US than they are in the UK, but I have the impression that many are known there--depending on their age some of your adult learners might be familiar with them.

Roman Clodia wrote: "I'm working on the outline of a poetry summer school I'm running and am thinking of including song lyrics to show people they already know poetry - any suggestions of lyrics? The obvious is Bob Dyl..."

My suggestion would be to explore the site, genius.com. and I have linked the lyrics page to Kate Bush's "Wuthering Heights," for you to sample:
https://genius.com/Kate-bush-wutherin...

You can type in a song or artist to see all songs and then review the lyrics and by clicking the shaded parts of lyrics see contributor references to meaning.

There are so many options you have but without knowing the age or makeup of the students, it is hard to suggest anything specific but Elton John's tribute to Marilyn Monroe "Candle in the Wind," with lyrics by Bernie Taupin might be suitable for showing simple poetic techniques.

https://genius.com/Elton-john-candle-...

Thank you everyone.

G., I think you're right about Folk but I'm shying away from a genre I know absolutely nothing about!

I didn't know about the Genius site but it's perfect for what I need so really appreciate the links, Sam and Susan. It's going to be hard to choose from so many fantastic examples.

Roman Clodia wrote: "Thank you everyone.

G., I think you're right about Folk but I'm shying away from a genre I know absolutely nothing about!

I didn't know about the Genius site but it's perfect for what I need so..."

A Dylan song I always liked was The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll off the The Times They Are A-Changin' album. (https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview...).

I was also a big fan of Phil Ochs from the same era. He committed suicide when he knew he would never write a better song than he had already written.