Christian Theological/Philosophical Book Club discussion

John 6:64-65
64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning who did not believe and who would betray him.

65 He went on to say, “ THIS IS WHY I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them .”
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Observations:
* Jesus knew from the beginning who would not believe
* This knowledge is why God enables
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1 Peter 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father...

Next time you wonder what God foreknew, remember the words of Jesus in John 6:64-65!

Congratulations, this sounds like a real meditation. Now, which God are you talking about here? There are two ideas of God in the Bible: Jehovah: A god of hatred and war in the Old Testament or El Shaddai, A God of love and peace in the New Testament. The Paulian version of both as God in two moods is not accepted by historians, who go beyond the Bible to other ancient books. Karen Armstrong, one of these historians,
says that in ancient Canaan, El Shaddai was worshipped in the North and Jehovah was worshipped in the South. What does Jesus teach ? In John, 8.44 - Jesus calls Jehovah, the god of the Pharisees: The Devil, the prince of liars. His laws (called the Statutes or the Laws of Moses which were founded in the blood of 3000 Israelites) directly contradicts the 10 Commandments, the Law of El Shaddai.

G. wrote: "Congratulations, this sounds like a real meditation. Now, which God are you talking about here? There are two ideas of God in the Bible: Jehovah: A god of hatred and war in the Old Testament or El ..."

I am talking about the One True God of the Bible.

John 8:44 (Jehovah is NOT mentioned.)

John 8:44 - Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

G. Julian, the God of the OT is the same God in the NT. The never changes, He is the same yesterday, today and forever.

Robert - the Lord gives what we need to do the task He has called us to. He enables us as we submit or surrender our will to His.

I meant to say the Lord God never changes. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

You have not done your homework. There are two ideas of God in the Bible: Jehovah (a new version of Yahweh, since he admits that his name is not too be worshiped; thus he cannot get any gullible Christians). To worship him you need to offer meat and alcohol, because he loves to get drunk on the Sabbath. I can give you the scripture if you like. He is a god of hatred and war, there are many examples of this. El Shaddai in the New Testament is a God of peace and love. To worship Him, you need to offer vegetarian food and fruit nectar, as well as water. Almost all historians of the ancient world agree that the two ideas of God are not the same. According to Karen Armstrong: In ancient Canaan, El was worshipped in the North and J. in the South. Here is the forbidden secret about Jehovah; he is the founder of genocide (Numbers 31. 1-3) and murdered 6 million refugees in the Old World; but he didn't get away with it, as the Nazis murdered 6 million Jews in the New World. The Lord worked through the demons on this one. There is judgement after death for breaking the Commandments (The Law of El Shaddai) as taught by Jesus. The Law of Moses is the Law of Jehovah and states that judgement is death by stoning now, not after death. Thus, The Law of Moses, directly contradicts the Ten Commandments (I can give you the scripture for that too). Welcome to Hippie Christianity, which is not taught in any church. Jules (I am a personal friend of Lord Yamaraja, the Demigod in charge of Death). I have also had an audience with God. As far as your statement that God never changes is false for only one dimension. He is always changing, as the season are always changing. The mystic principle applies: Simultaneously one, but different at the same time (this is the explanation of the Trinity).

Robert wrote: "G. wrote: "Congratulations, this sounds like a real meditation. Now, which God are you talking about here? There are two ideas of God in the Bible: Jehovah: A god of hatred and war in the Old Testa..."

Yes, it is true that the name Jehovah is not mentioned in John 8.44 but Jehovah is the god of the Pharisees, which Jesus constantly condemned in the New Testament. He is jealous of any other idea of God and he claims to be the god of Israel (but does not have the vision of being the God of the Universe). The Law of Moses is Jehovah's Law and it directly contradicts the 10 Commandments. The Commandments of El Shaddai was preached by Jesus (and the judgement for breaking them comes after death) but the Law of Moses's judgement is death now by stoning (something Jesus condemned). This is my interpretation; sometimes in the Bible you have to read between the lines.

G. wrote: "but Jehovah is the god of the Pharisees, which Jesus constantly condemned in the New Testament..."

What Scripture says that Jehovah is the God of the Pharisees and NOT the God of Israel?

What Scripture says that there are two different Gods?

So far all I see are opinions and private interpretations.

Jesus taught us to judge what is divine and what is demoniac: "Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth ? I tell you now, there is no peace in this world, but rather division; for you must learn to judge what is right (divine) and what wrong (demoniac) by your own initiative." Luke 12.51 & 57. So, let's see if Jehovah has divine characteristics: He eats flesh like a ghoul, drinks blood like a vampire, gets drunk on the Sabbath and invented genocide or the murder of innocent refugees. He murdered 6 million people in the Old World. All these are demoniac characteristics. It is well known by all historians that The Pharisees worshipped Jehovah (or Yahweh) and they certainly followed the Laws of Moses which entailed death by stoning which Jesus condemned, you know the quote. Yes, I have my own interpretation, because the Bible leaves so much out. Your Paulian interpretation is an opinion tool. That's why it's a third class scripture, for high school spirituality. Everything becomes crystal clear when you read Bhagavad-gita, as it is.

G. wrote: "Everything becomes crystal clear when you read Bhagavad-gita, as it is..."

Thanks for telling us that you are a Hindu .

As for me, I will stick with the Bible.

"That's your right !" The Holy Ghost

Friendly Greetings: I am not a Hindu; I am a Vaishnava. Being a Vaishnava means that we follow an authentic disciplic succession. This is called "The Descending" process or preserving God's message to us. In the "Ascending process" you try to find God by logic, reason, visions and hallucinations (by drugs or otherwise). God say this is a problem, for how can you understand the unlimited with limited senses. I know that you agree that a scripture is required; just as in college you need a bona-fide teacher and a book for study. Are you a college graduate or maybe a seminary graduate ? Anyway, Jesus also has a disciplic succession. It is called "The Desposni" and it was ruled by James & Peter. Paul applied for membership but was rejected. Probably because of his false philosophy called "Jesus is the name above all names." Let's see if Jesus agrees to this: "Our Father, who art in Heaven - Hallowed Be Thy Name !" No, Jesus does not agree. He says God's Name if the Name above all names. Please comment on that . Jules

God has left humanity to figure out the way to live, the instruction manual for Christians is Christ. So I wrote a prayer book. I might need to change the title,,? How to Live in a World That Is Dying: Meditations and Prayers for Our Planet Open to any opinion, our paradigms are changing and for that, we need to adjust to a new way of thinking, grief is a process.