You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

One of the group reads for December is Hamnet by Maggie O'Farrell. Please discuss the book in this thread.

Kristie will be leading the discussion.

In order to receive a badge you must:
1. have read the book before or during December 2022.
2. discussed it in this thread. Discussion must be more than "I read the book and I liked it". Discussion requires something more substantial and analytical of what you read, for example, thoughts, opinions, impact it had on you, what was your favorite part, was it what you expected it to be like etc. You may also like to review the book and post a link to the review in this thread. Please refer to our group spoiler policy for further information.
3. Report that you have read AND discussed the book in the reporting thread (include a brief summary of what you thought of the book).

A note on discussion: Discussion must be more than "I read the book and I liked it". Discussion requires something more substantial and analytical of what you read, for example, thoughts, opinions, impact it had on you, what was your favorite part, was it what you expected it to be like etc.

In addition to this, the group reads are meant to be a "read along" so it is preferable that you discuss the book as you read rather than wait until you've finished the book.

And finally, discussion is not about just listing your thoughts. Please interact with the other group members, comment on their thoughts, and if they comment on yours, respond to them. This is what makes a good book discussion!

You may also like to review the book and post a link to the review in this thread.

Please refer to our group spoiler policy for further information.

General Rules:
1. Please mark your spoilers with the spoiler tags along with mentioning what stage of the book you are at so other's don't get a nasty shock. Chapter numbers/titles are generally best as they are the same across all formats and editions. See our spoiler policy
2. The book may be combined with the Year Long Challenge, Topplers, and Monthly Challenges.

Happy reading!

I actually just read this recently and really enjoyed it. It wasn't what I was expected and I'm looking forward to discussing it with everyone.

Please know that even though it is based on Shakespeare's life, it is not really about Shakespeare. It is mostly about his family. You don't need to know anything about Shakespeare to enjoy this one.

I have this on order from the library but no sign of it arriving. I'll give it a week and then think about buying it.

Hope it comes in, Margo.

This was one of the first audiobooks I listened to. I really enjoyed it too although I have to admit I'm already a bit hazy on the details.

Oh, it was exactly one year ago apparently! December 2021.

I just read it in August, but I didn't really write a review. I'm grabbing it from the library again to freshen my memory. I'm sure there's an online summary somewhere if you'd like to do a quick refresher too, Peggy.

I found this: https://the-bibliofile.com/hamnet-sum... It looks like a pretty detailed summary. This is not a link for anyone who hasn't read the book yet.

Thanks Kristie!

Hi. I am a club member but haven’t joined in reads\discussions in awhile.
I just got the Hamnet book and will do my best to discuss my thoughts as I read.

Welcome to the discussion, Rich. :)

Kristie wrote: "Welcome to the discussion, Rich. :)"Ty

I’ve just started reading. Interesting that Hamnet and Hamlet were essential the same name back then.
Kinda of shocked by the grandfather hitting Hamnet with the cup. I am used to grandparents being the friendliest of your family.

I think I've read some books with strict or angry / mean grandparents. I do think that the modern image of grandparents is more friendly and lovable, but historically I think some were more proper and concerned with social impressions.

Just a heads up in advance, Rich. Do you know how to create spoiler tags? We need to use them in order to not give away anything in the story. Some people start the story at different times or read faster or slower.

Just in case you don't know how - to create one, type the words below, but remove the three periods. I added those so it wouldn't close and you could see it.

<.spoiler> put the text you want to hide here <./spoiler.>

Ok I will use them. Ty for the reminder and for the proper syntax.

I just my audiobooks from the library. I have 5 hours left in my current story so I might finish that first. Lately I can only handle one storyline at a time ;-)

On page 70. Starting to figure out who each of the characters are. I thought It was a bit jumbled to start who was narrating.

I got a copy from my library yesterday, so I will be starting soon.

I've had a really bad headache for the last couple of days so I put off starting this read but it's almost gone now so I plan to start tonight. Unfortunately it's CDs so not so handy - might take a bit longer than normal but it didn't cost me anything so I'm not complaining ;-)

I'm always disappointed when I can only get the CDs for audio, Margo. They're just not as convenient. Hasn't happened in a while. Hope you enjoy the story enough that it's worth it. :)

Rich, yes it takes a minute to get into it and figure out the players.

I read this this year for my reading road trip, and the thing I felt when I finished it was this:

I wish I had read it sooner so I could have been telling people about it longer! It was such a good book!

I kind of felt like that too, Pat. I initially didn't really want to read it, then someone chose it for my real life book club. I ended up being so glad I read it. It wasn't what I was expecting it to be and it was so good.

I've been having lots of technical issues (like realising that Bluetooth ear buds don't work with my old CD player) so my progress has been slow but I'm really enjoying this so far. It's my first story by this author and I like her style.

I'm on disc 3 of 9, I chapter 4, if you've been lucky enough to live under a rock and do not know the premise/theme of the story then don't read my spoilers.

(view spoiler)[ The writing is sparse and understated. I love the way the focus is removed from Will Shakespeare by only referring to him in terms of his relationship with other characters i.e. the father of Hamnet, the son of John etc. I'm inclined to like Will for teaching his sisters their letters.

I didn't realise till I started reading that Hamnet had a twin sister. Somehow that makes what we know is to happen even more poignant.

John is such a nasty man. It's little wonder he has no friends. He is quick to use his fists on his son. Anyes (well that's what it sounds like on the audio! ) step mother has a similar nasty temperament. I cheered when both times the youngsters stood up for themselves. Don't care what the bible says about turning the other cheek, I think bullies should get a taste of their own medicine.

I've just read the bit where Anyes goes the Shakespeares house to let them know she's pregnant. I love that she walked out of her families home even though her brother said she had every right to stay. I love that she is unabashed to admit her pregnancy "outside of wedlock" and I love that she brought her hawk with her. I just wish I didn't know that the couple would end up living with there. I wonder why they didn't set up their own home? I guess we'll find out soon.

(hide spoiler)]

Up to end of chapter 12

Well, I finally abandoned my lo-tech method of listening and went back to audible. I couldn't be doing with scratched, dirty CDs any longer. Now I remember why I stopped using library discs.

I'm flying through the book while I get my xmas bits and bobs done. I enjoyed (view spoiler)[ the authors reimagining of how the plague got to Stratford and landed on Judith. I'm struck by the difference in character between Will and Anyes. They both live with his unpleasant father - why is that? He presumably gets paid for his tutoring work, why can't they rent somewhere? He sulks and indulges in depression while she keeps her head down and works hard. She is a trooper! Also, I know from earlier scenes with Hamnet that their children are at risk and they know it too. What hold does John have over them that they are willing to put their children at risk?

(hide spoiler)]

Yes, CDs can really be a hassle. I also love being able to speed up and go back a few seconds to re-listen when needed on Audible. Glad you're flying through it now, Margo.

I'm not sure exactly how far you are through the book, so I don't want to give anything away, but yes (view spoiler)[ William and Agnes have very different personalities. I think part of the issue is just that this was a different time and the expectations for family were different. (hide spoiler)]

Hi.
Margo- I am one of the few rock people who does not story of Hamlet if that’s what you mean...sad to admit but true lol.
I am at chapter 10.

(view spoiler)[John explodes at the dinner table. What was he going to do to the child. He seems unstable at times.
Agnes has premonitions, I wonder if they are gut feelings. Or does she really have a gift to see the future.
I am enjoying about how the day to day life was back then. Having a hearth for heat. Gathering plants for food and medicines. Honey bees for your honey.
Is it something that Agnes husband,s name is never used. Always the “husband”. I couldn’t find his name lol. (hide spoiler)]

Rich - They never do mention him by name in the book, always in relation to others. (view spoiler)[I think it is meant to keep the focus off of him and on the family because this is really their story. As a famous person (William Shakespeare), his name alone draws attention and focus. By not using his famous name the story becomes about regular people and their relatable story. (hide spoiler)]

I also didn't really know the story of Hamlet before reading this, or at least I had forgotten it somewhere along the line.

Kristie wrote: "Rich - They never do mention him by name in the book, always in relation to others. [spoilers removed]

I also didn't really know the story of Hamlet before reading this, or at least I had forgotte..."
(view spoiler)[I was just reading and thinking the husband might be William Shakespeare....ty, I missed that😮...as I said the beginning kind of was hard to figure out the players for me...Liking everything so far. Story goes well with our wintery weather here in New York. (hide spoiler)]

Rich wrote: "John ..."

I agree that John (view spoiler)[ seems very unstable. I'd be nervous about leaving children with him. That's a good question about Agness premonitions. I'd be inclinded to say she is picking up non verbal signals from people but...... My granmother definitely had a sixth sense - that woman knew things she shouldn't have!

Re Agnes - I'm listening to audiobook and the pronunciation sounds like Ann-yes with emphasis on the second syllable. I wonder if that was it was said in 16th century?

I had to study Hamnet in school. It was one of the more interesting Shakespeare plays - not sure that says much though. I'm not a huge fan !-)

(hide spoiler)]

Kristie wrote: " chapter 12....."

(view spoiler)[ Yes, it may have been a class thing also. John was a merchant an so probably had more room than a poorer family. Not sure if William was the only son and was in line to inherit the home.

(hide spoiler)]

Chapter 18

This chapter is more than 3 hours long :O) I'm about 20 mins in. (view spoiler)[ The death scene was harrowing. I don't think I've come across such a detailed and realistic fictional end of life. It was maybe a little too real for me. I can feel her grief and it made me relive all the deaths I've ever witnessed. How a mother can live with the losd of her child is beyond my understand.

(hide spoiler)]

Margo wrote: "Rich wrote: "John ..."

I agree that John seems very unstable. I'd be nervous about leaving children with him. That's a good question about Agness premonitions. I'd be inclinded to say she is pick..."
(view spoiler)[that is funny about your grama, I think gramas just know stuff. She picking William for her husband even though her brother thinks he is twit. She saying he has more hidden abilities than anyone she ever met was pretty interesting. He doesn’t seem like a very good pick at all from the story so far lol. (hide spoiler)]
Chapter 13

Chap 16.
(view spoiler)[the birth of the twins part was really good. Thought for sure Agnes was gonna die. Happy she pulled through... (hide spoiler)]

Rich wrote: "Kristie wrote: "Rich - They never do mention him by name in the book, always in relation to others. [spoilers removed]..."

Yes, this story is based loosely on his real life.

Just finished. (view spoiler)[ I felt slightly let down my the ending, I was hoping for a bit more closure.

Thank god they finally got away from the inlaws! Still don't understand why Will left it so long or why he kept his wife in the dark about his finances. I was so happy that Agnes was able to make good use of all that extra space - some conciliation fir having a cheating ratbag for a husband. I feel that, at last, she has a life of own so Wills lonh absences hurt a little less. Suzanne is very funny trying to cope with her unusual family as best she can. I do think it sounds like too much responsibility for a young girl and I hope she manages to get a good catch as a husband lol

Agnes must have so shocked to to hear that Will had a play named Hamlet. I wonder why he didn't go the full way and call it Hamnet? And to hear about it from her stepmother must have really stung. Not surprised she needed to see the play.

The london scenes were very vivid. I think Agnes must be very glad she didn't move there! The play house was very rough but I've seen enough documentaries The Globe not to be surprised by that. Not too sure I understand what Will was trying to achieve with the play. The actor playing Hamnet looked the was their would have looked had he lived. So what? I can understand that would have been poignant for both but Hamlet dies at the end of the play. Was it the fact that all the "dead" actors jump up again at the end of the play and so are resurrected? I don't understand why Agnes thinks she has "found" her son but then I don't understand a lot of stuff about the was she thinks. Think I need to listen to the last 20 minutes again and try to form an opinion.

I really enjoyed the writing and historical detail of the story and will definitely pick up more from this author.
(hide spoiler)]

Margo wrote: "Just finished. I felt slightly let down my the ending, I was hoping for a bit more closure. ..."

(view spoiler)[ I agree about the ending. I think it just wrapped up too quickly. It felt like the story had all this emotion and detail and then it just sort of ended.

I can't imagine Agnes finding out about the play from her stepmother. She was so awful and just seemed to enjoy making Agnes miserable.

I think writing Hamlet was therapeutic for William and I think it helped Agnes to see that he was struggling with Hamnet's death too.

I felt bad that their marriage dissolved into what it did. It seemed that they were truly in love to begin with and she made decisions to try to support him as best as she could. London never would have worked for their family because their daughter was so sick. It seems their marriage was doomed, since she couldn't move there and he clearly couldn't stay where they were. (hide spoiler)]

89% done

Finished.
(view spoiler)[Good points Margo. I agree the ending was rather abrupt. I did see in prologue that Hamnet and Hamlet were considered the same name back then. I agree kristie that the play was therapeutic for William. Still seems weird that William name never mentioned.
Was William Shakespeare really cheating on his wife that much?
I enjoyed the historical feel of the story, the writing slow and detailed at times that really brought me back in time. Liked the country to apartment (high living) with Agnes.
I liked the magical realism too. Agnes made for a complex character with her powers, feeling the persons hand to get insight was interesting. Lots about her was enjoyable and intriguing. The book really should have been named after her.
Learned a bit about the plague too. It sounded terrible with the big bulbs on your neck, death with 4-7 days. Wow. The fleas brining it to Europe by sailors was interesting.
(hide spoiler)]

Rich (view spoiler)[ Yes, the fleas with the plague were interesting.

I just had a thought about the magical realism while reading your last comment. One of the few parts I did not like about the book was that Hamnet took the death away from his twin sister. It bothered me because it doesn't work that way and was just too unrealistic for me. However... after reading your comment, I thought maybe he was supposed to have inherited some of Agnes 'powers'. It's just an interesting thought.

What did you all think of his death scene?

I thought Agnes's pain and disbelieve afterwards was very well written. It was palpable. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[I wouldn’t say I did not like the part where Hamnet took the death away from his sister. I kind of thought it was a little strange. He was supposed to have inherited some her powers. Maybe he did have them and passed them onto Judith. She seemed to have powers at the end of the story. She looked for him and found him in a scene at the end. She feels her brother presence passing through her body at one point. Liked those real/unreal segments of the story.
The death scene was really raw I thought. How death is not a tranquil thing, how life fights without boundaries to remain in the body. Convulsions and what not. How Agnes fighting to save him, so desperate using things she didn’t believe in like the toad on stomach. Really sad in the end, I was hoping he would survive. (hide spoiler)]

Rich wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[ Raw is a good way to describe the death scene. I thought it was so well described. You could just feel how distraught and absolutely devastated Agnes was. (hide spoiler)]

Jane Reads wrote: "I got a copy from my library yesterday, so I will be starting soon."

Jane - What were your thoughts on the book?

Kristie wrote: "Rich wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

[spoilers removed]"
(view spoiler)[ yes you are right. She felt so bad she didn’t see it coming. Couldn’t fix him with all her powers. Then went into her room and didn’t want to come out. I felt her sadness too. Just so sad (hide spoiler)]

Rich wrote: "Finished.
"

Hi Rich - if you are finished reading your book, you can report your read under the December reporting thread https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... if you are interested in a badge for your Wall of Fame. 😀

Interesting comments on (view spoiler)[ death taking Hamnet and not Judith. I just took it that Hamnet wanted his twin to live and was mentally bargaining with death as in "take me not her", I didn't take it literally but as Rich and Kristie say, given the more fantastical overtones in this book, it might well have been meant literally. I'm not sure what to think about that.
(hide spoiler)]

Margo wrote: "Interesting comments on ..."

(view spoiler)[
I didn't really like the death scene for that reason. It was so unrealistic to me. You can't be healthy and beg death to take you instead and then the sick person gets well and you die. I just couldn't get my brain to accept that. I suppose that's why it needs to be looked at a little differently, at least for me.

I loved the way everything else was described though.
(hide spoiler)]

I enjoyed reading along with you Margo and kristie. Thought it was a very good story. Thanks for your thoughts and questions. Have a wonderful holiday season...

Thanks, Rich. Enjoyed reading with you too. Happy holidays!