The Mary Sue Books and More Club discussion

here is for everyone to talk about the book.
Enjoy.

The baby has my sister's name. Just one more reason I adore this book. Dawwww.

Wow, once I passed the first few chapters this book got really got. It also had a much better ending than I could have hoped for. I kept thinking, something big has to happen or Alif will be right back where he started from. I also liked how much he matured by the end.

Shauna wrote: "Wow, once I passed the first few chapters this book got really got. It also had a much better ending than I could have hoped for. I kept thinking, something big has to happen or Alif will be righ..."

Yes! I poked in at the first week's comments and everyone is speaking of Alif: he's so this, he's so that! And all that is of course true (annoying, whiny, talks down to women,...). But I was happy with how he changed- very believable, and over time.

I did find it a bit... odd? How "the convert" is called "the convert" through the whole book. It was on purpose to draw attention to how she is different and treated differently, but we could have been offered a name for her, I think.

I wondered about the "convert" as well. It would have been a cool device if we would have learned her name in the end as she took her place in the world of the unseen.

The one thing, and I think this could have been me, the ending of the book seems a blur. It feels like it just suddenly drops off. While I know that narratives don't have to end in little bows, I guess I would have liked something magical at the end to tie the two worlds together.

I love the time we spend in the city of the Jinn and the world of the unseen. Those scenes seem so rich and full. I wonder if that's intentional on Wilson's part, to create difference. The descriptions of the unseen world are colorful and rich, and the descriptions of the real world are fairly straightforward.

I am surprised no one talked about the older Imam who goes to jail along with Alif. I love his adaptability and how his faith seems to be flexible. He reminds me a little of the Imam in Ms. Marvel.

My favorite line in the last section is when the Effret says "Cousin, we have Wifi."

So, I went into this book taking vigorous notes, posing several questions, and re-reading full chapters...but after going on vacation for a week, I promptly slackened. Which, I'm a saddened a bit about because a lot of the things I noticed in the first section, I saw bloom before my eyes during the last section...and I never finished the notes or getting fully in-depth with the text other than just reading it.

Just a few of my musings:

LOVED the Empty Quarter and how fantastic everything seemed...but it wasn't so far out of our own reality that they don't use computers and WiFi :). One of my favorite quotes was from the sheikh (it's a little long) - "Truly, the work of the Lord of Worlds surpasses all our puny understanding. You know, I read one that the human mind is incapable of imagining anything that does not exist somewhere, in some form. It seemed a paltry enough truth at the time - I though, of course it must be so, since in a sense everything we will ever discover or invent has, in the eyes of God, already been discovered and invented, as God is above time. Seeing this, though, I begin to understand how much more profound that statement is. It does not simply mean that man's innovation is entirely known to God; it means there is no such thing as fiction." It just made me think that somewhere, anything that has been imagined/created/painted/etc is actually somewhere in our universe and not just something someone came up with. Of course, I also though of those horrible scary movies and what that would mean...*shudder* Moving on...

I enjoyed Alif's growth and progress (though some of it seemed forced to me, for some reason. I can't quite put my finger on it). I loved Dina throughout the whole book, but I just wished maybe she had a little bit more to add. My favorite part with her, by far, was when Alif was curled up on the floor, NewQuarter sobbing in the back, and she's the ONLY one standing against the creepy thing coming up the stairs.

I had once thought that the author never gave the convert a name because the convert could be seen as ANYONE who is trying to fit in, whether it's being a religious convert or one of a minority race/gender/culture/ethnicity/sexual orientation just trying to fit in. It was almost like we could insert ourselves in what she has experienced...but by the end of the book, I'm not so sure that was the case - especially after reading what others have said about the author's own experiences.

Also, I enjoyed the excerpts from the Alf Yeom, but wished there were more of them. The stories and the dual meanings derived from them were interesting. My favorite was Vikram's story, though. It showed a side of him we didn't truly get to see until he took the two women to the Empty Quarter and made sure they were safe.

Overall, I enjoyed the book. It would not have been one I would have picked up on my own or even given a second glance to. I'm really happy we picked the book. It does seem it hasn't struck such a high cord as Cinder did, but I don't think it was a complete flop. I wish there had been more with Azalel because she seemed like a pretty cool character, and I'm really sad we didn't get to have more of Vikram's smart mouth. I really enjoyed the blending of religion, science, and fantasy, and strangely enough, I feel like it gave me a few things to wonder about within my own religion.

PS - One of my notes from the first chapter was about how the summoned djinn tells Reza that after the last tale, Reza would be transformed. I wondered how or what was meant by that...I was extremely happy when the author referenced that on the last page with Alif: "Here he had begun to be transformed by the story of himself." I also thought it very interesting that the last chapter of the Alf Yeom would tranform to be specific to the person reading the book.

I read some comments by Wilson about 'the convert'. She said that she felt she also had to include a character like the convert (white, outsider) to be fair since she had many other non-white, Muslim, various-country-of-origin characters and she felt she had to put a character whose background was like her own under the same focus. She also says the character plays the role often occupied by minority/PoC characters who exist to give information or serve the main (usually white) characters in some way but not much more than that. I thought these were interesting aspects to think about, though I remain a bit dismayed by how she ends up. I do think it will make me think more about the role (and gender and racial background) of 'minor' characters in other books I read.

I liked the book overall and as others have said, I enjoyed the combination of different realms - religion, technology, fantasy. I also liked the setting within the Arab world because it showed me a contemporary community I don't know very much about. I felt the ending was a good combination of positive, with Alif and Dina getting together, but also realistic and a bit grim, about the realities of what happens during a revolution.

A wrote: "So, I went into this book taking vigorous notes, posing several questions, and re-reading full chapters...but after going on vacation for a week, I promptly slackened. Which, I'm a saddened a bit a..."

I also liked how each of the characters who read the last story saw a story about himself.

I was pleased with pretty much everything about the convert, including her lack of name. I wouldn't have picked up quite so much on her otherness if she were named. Wilson was quite successful with the different things she was trying to do with her. That she would end up feeling more at home in the world of the jinn than she did as a white person in the Middle East is particularly interesting to me.

I highlighted two quotes during the book, both during this last section I believe, that struck me:

(on the demons) - "We are not meant to fear them because they are powerful, but because we ourselves are so easily misled."

- "Perhaps this was all freedom was - a moment in which all things were possible, overtaken too soon by man's fearsome instinct to punish and divide."

I wouldn't have picked up this book, but I'm glad it was chosen this month. It was a good challenge to my normal methods of perspective and thought.

I'm kind of just going to sum up my overall feelings on this story. I knew I wasn't going to have time to physically read the book this month because I was away for half the month for trainings so I kinda cheated & listened to the audiobook. It took a couple chapters to get into it and I'm glad I pushed through to get there.

At first Alif was more child like & somewhat spoiled to me. It's obvious he's smart, but he seems to me to be a bit lazy since he has his mother and a housekeeper to do things for him. He does seem to care for his mother and for Dinah, but it changes to a deeper meaning for him and them by the end. This goes much for Dinah (I'm probably not spelling that right, sorry) since she goes from the little girl next door to being a woman in Alif's eyes and heart. Prison really made him see the world differently as did his time in the alley and the empty quarter. I was so glad when he finally woke up and realized Dinah is who he should be with.

Vikrim kind of got on my nerves to at first. He said what he thought and didn't care what you thought about it. What he says though has meaning later on a lot of the time and he does seem to care about all of the characters. Imagining him as this person/wolf type person really helped me glory into the story. He pushes Alif to think and to grow.

The convert was interesting to me. She was full of exposition but also was sometimes the conscience of the group. Sometimes in order to be the hero you need that little voice that goes "hold on think about this" to strategize. I think Vikrim liked her from the start and I am a sap for some romance so I'll take her and Vikrim ending up together. Vikrim made sure she'd never be alone.

The Hand to me seems to be the incarnation of several types of government who desire control and mindless obedience and God help you if you speak out. I know things like what happened to Alif & the shiek in prison does happen.

The shiek was one of my favorite characters. He really is the voice of reason and is that person someone needs when they are looking for advice. He gave advice, but tried to get you to figure out the answer to your own question.

Overall it was a bit of a slow burn, but it was worth it. The mix of stories from the book were a nice touch. I wish I had the time to have been able to pickup a copy and read it. I didn't know G. Willow Wilson wrote a book! Thanks for picking it.

Not entirely on topic, but my thought is that if you listen to a book unabridged and it's fiction/popular non fiction you are not cheating. I used whispersync through Audible/Amazon and read some, listened some. I really enjoyed it that way.

Agreed (Lisa), I've always got a book on audible or oneclick or whatever and count those as "read" books. I spend too much time traveling not to!

Audio books aren't cheating! You're digesting the same story, it's just being presented in an alternate format. It may be easier for some people to read a story that way.

Katie wrote: "Audio books aren't cheating! You're digesting the same story, it's just being presented in an alternate format. It may be easier for some people to read a story that way."

I drive and hour and a half each way to work so I tend to do books or podcasts instead of the radio. When the person reading is really good you can really get into the story. Cinder was like that. The woman reading it was so good that it was really easy for your mind to picture it & get into the story no matter where you had to stop for reasons.

Terpsgrl32 wrote: "Katie wrote: "Audio books aren't cheating! You're digesting the same story, it's just being presented in an alternate format. It may be easier for some people to read a story that way."

I drive an..."

Sometimes audiobooks are easier for me to read a particular story anyway. I just read 1984, and I did the first half as an audiobook while I was driving on a long trip. It's such a dense read, but I was able to get into it much easier because of the skill of the person reading.

I find that I digest audiobooks better! It's harder for me to skip sections I'd rather not read because I feel they're dragging or because I'm eager to get back to another plot.

I just finished Alif, and I loved it. It had a meatiness about it that was really satisfying, but it wasn't so in love with its prose that I struggled to pick it up every day. (I'm reading a book that falls into the latter category, and OMG is it draaaaaaagging. I hope the payoff is worth it).

The thing I loved most was the transformation of Alif. He was unlikable at the start, but so well written. I know dudes like him, and I've watched the same transformation happen (though more slowly).