Never too Late to Read Classics discussion

Our Host is Member John
These are his words:

Our 2023 Buddy Read of German authors consists of a list of 16 authors, with 12 being read one-per-month, and 4 being available as quarterly reads, either instead of, or in addition to, monthly choices.

That will hopefully allow us each month to find someone from the list we are happy to read. The choice of individual books is left to each of us, to allow us to select books we already have, can get from the library, etc. But if there is any month that you don’t want to read either of the options that month, why not read another German author instead – even if not on our list – as a discussion of the comparison between choices can often be interesting.

We’ll aim to discuss potential choices of individual books about two months in advance, to give us time to order, borrow, etc.

So our schedule for 2023 is -

Jan – Goethe
Feb – Novalis
Mar – Theodor Fontane
Apl – Else Lasker-Schuler
May – Heinrich Mann
Jun – Alfred Doblin
Jul – Walter Benjamin
Aug – Hans Fallada
Sep – Hannah Arendt
Oct – Christa Wolf
Nov – Anna Seghers
Dec – Gunter Grass

Q1 – Stefan Zweig
Q2 – Franz Kafka
Q3 – Hermann Hesse
Q4 – Thomas Mann

"Johann Wolfgang von Goethe was a German poet, playwright, novelist, scientist, statesman, theatre director, and critic. His works include plays, poetry, literature, and aesthetic criticism, as well as treatises on botany, anatomy, and colour. He is widely regarded as the greatest and most influential writer in the German language, his work having a profound and wide-ranging influence on Western literary, political, and philosophical thought from the late 18th century to the present day."

Does anyone have any strong preferences/recommendations about what Goethe book we should read in January? I'm leaning towards The Sorrows of Young Werther - his first novel, and probably still his best known book, but what are your recommendations?

Thanks for setting this up. I’m trying a more free schedule in 2023 but will ll try to read at least one work by one of the authors per quarter. I look forward to the discussions.

I will try to read Wilhelm Meister's Apprenticeship.

Q1 – Stefan Zweig Three Masters: Balzac, Dickens, Dostoeffsky

Q2 – Franz Kafka The Castle

Q3 – Hermann Hesse The Glass Bead Game

Q4 – Thomas Mann The Magic Mountain and The Magician

I'm going to have a relaxed reading schedule for 2023. But I'd still keep room for Hess and Mann.

I read The Sorrows of Young Werther recently so thought Italian Journey might be my choice. I did have a copy of it but can't lay my hands on it at this moment. Too many moves over too many years.

I recently performed the role of Mephistopheles in English for my university. I think I'd like to read Faust again, which might just turn out to be a quarterly read for me. Honestly, there's nothing like Faust I've ever read.

Fontane's Effi Briest is one I very much wish to read this year, however, I'm definitely reading Zweig's The World of Yesterday this year.

I have had Goethe's Italian Journey on my shelf for years, so I will be reading that.

I've been on my own Viagem a Itália: 1786-1788 too. I think this gonna be my preference for January.

It already sounds like we'll have a good selection of Goethe's works to read and discuss in January, which is excellent.

I'm going to try The Sorrows of Young Werther again in January. I didn't like it the first time I read it but I think I wasn't used to reading classics then.

That's great, Kathy - I've never read anything by Goethe so I'm looking forward to this.

Our first "Quarterly" German author is Stefan Zweig, who was an Austrian novelist, playwright, journalist, and biographer. At the height of his literary career, in the 1920s and 1930s, he was one of the most widely translated and popular writers in the world. He was raised in Vienna, and published novellas, short stories, plays, biographies, historical texts, and collections of letters. (He wrote only one full length novel.)

In 1934, as a result of the Nazi Party's rise in Germany, Zweig emigrated to England and then to Brazil after a brief period in New York. Zweig was Jewish and like Walter Benjamin, who we’ll be reading later in the year, he succumbed to despair and suicide during the Second World War.

His memoir, The World of Yesterday, is noted for its description of life during the last years of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and has been called the most famous book on that Empire.

After his death, his books were less popular and he was criticised for being too nostalgic and apolitical, and for having a distorted and glorified view of the Empire. (Interestingly, American and European critics seem to take this view, but the post-revolutionary Chinese regard him as an important political writer).

Ila is planning to read The World of Yesterday; I'm planning to try two examples of his writing - the novella Chess Story and his literary biography Nietzsche.

So - on the plus side, he was enormously successful and his work has been "rediscovered" since the 1990s. On the negative side, respected writers like Hesse and Mann were scathing about the poor quality of his writing.

What are your expectations of his books - and will you be reading any of them in Jan - Mar?

John wrote: "That's great, Kathy - I've never read anything by Goethe so I'm looking forward to this."

It should be interesting to see what everyone thinks of their different books.

I plan to read the Q1-Q4 authors plus Hans Fallada and possibly Zweig. I recommend Chess Story and plan to read The World of Yesterday or The Post-Office Girl. Knowing Zweig's action, after mailing his manuscript of Chess Story to his publisher, made it that more impactful.

For Kafka, I want to finish The Trial and read The Castle. I just bought a used copy of Kafka, which is a "part illustrated biography and part comics adaptation" by David Zane Mairowitz and well-known comics illustrator Robert Crumb. I want to read Kafka's books first before diving into this illustrated presentation!

For Goethe, it looks like there will be three of us reading Italian Journey; two of us reading The Sorrows of Young Werther, one of us reading Wilhelm Meister's Apprenticeship, and one "maybe" for Faust.

For Zweig, its one each for The World of Yesterday, Chess Story, Nietzsche, and (maybe) The Post-Office Girl.

Those choices should hopefully give us plenty of points for comparison and discussion.

Is anyone planning to read any others from Goethe or Zweig?

I’m a definite for Faust.

I know we haven't yet started, our buddy read, and Walter Benjamin isn't in the schedule until later in 2023, but I couldn't resist reading Illuminations when I came across a copy in the library.

It was well worth the effort (and at times the essays did require an effort - but that is no bad thing!) and I look forward to reading more from Benjamin next year.

Just found these in my local second hand book store. They look almost new so either they have never been read or the previous owner was really careful.

The World of Yesterday by Stefan Zweig
Iron Gustav: A Berlin Family Chronicle by Hans Fallada
The Magic Mountain by Thomas Mann

I think I'm most looking forward to reading The World of Yesterday which is great as it's in Q1 which starts in just over a week!

That's a great find, Lisa!

Great finds, Lisa - all perfect for this buddy read - and good timing.

Lisa M wrote: "Just found these in my local second hand book store. They look almost new so either they have never been read or the previous owner was really careful.

..."

I'm so glad you've found The World of Yesterday. Eagerly looking forward to reading this one.

I'm reading certain selected poems of Novalis as part of my uni courses. Let's see if I can read more of them and share my views.

I’ll read Faust for my first of 4 reads.

Lisa M wrote: "Just found these in my local second hand book store. They look almost new so either they have never been read or the previous owner was really careful.

..."

Faallada is not a favorite of mine, but the other two authors are good! What a successful shopping trip!

Chrissie wrote: Faallada is not a favorite of mine, but the other two authors are good! What a successful shopping trip!"

I've not read anything by Fallada but was interested by the blurb. Then last night I read the wikipedia article on Fallada and it appears that Fallada was encouraged to write this novel by Goebbels and he influenced him to be more sympathetic to the Nazi party 'Fallada wrote several different versions before eventually capitulating under the pressure of both Goebbels and his depleted finances' this was in 1938.... so now I'm a bit conflicted about this one.

Ila wrote: I'm so glad you've found The World of Yesterday. Eagerly looking forward to reading this one.

I've been keen to read this for a few years now so I could not believe my luck when I saw it... It's just pure procrastination that I hadn't ordered it already for the group read.

Re Zweig and Fallada:

Zweig I like a lot, but not Fallada.....on the other hand it feels good to have tested him. Fallada's Every Man Dies Alone I gave one star. He wrote it VERY quickly and I think it shows. This criticism is purely related to his writing skills. With Zweig I have read seven books. I have given them from three to five stars. In fact two I gave five stars and I do not rate so high often! Amok and Chess Story were so utterly amazing that both earned five from me. I have reviews of all my books, if you want me to dig them up for you. I do think it is fun to tackle a book on one's own without knowing others' reasoning.......

Chess Story seems to be highly rated by everyone, Chrissie - I have it on order, and I'm looking forward to it.

I'm currently reading The Collected Stories of Stefan Zweig which runs to 720 pages. So far I've enjoyed most of them, including the "Amok" short story.

I’m sorry to see your 1 star review Chrissie of the Hans Fallada book Every Man Dies Alone but I’m going to give it a try anyway. I have to be in a certain frame of mind to get back into WWII Lit, though. There is also a 2016 English film adaptation titled Alone in Berlin. Has anyone seen it?

John wrote: "Chess Story seems to be highly rated by everyone, Chrissie - I have it on order, and I'm looking forward to it.

I'm currently reading [book:The Collected Stories of Stefan Zweig|17675..."

Huh, Amok is in with the story collection. Happy to hear that and that you to enjoyed it. I am not into short stories collections so I rarely pick them up, even though I know some stories can make a pack a pinch!

Chrissie wrote: "John wrote: "Chess Story seems to be highly rated by everyone, Chrissie - I have it on order, and I'm looking forward to it.

I'm currently reading [book:The Collected Stories of Stefa..."

I liked it too.

Pam,, it's good you try it and form your own opinion. I hope it works better for you than it did for me. Me? I got so annoyed that I didn't finish it. Books I don't finish I give one star because I rarely dump a book. I only do it when I am 100% sure I cannot stand it any more even after reading a large portion. Many, many books DO turn around!

Looks like I'm in minority with Chess Story. I couldn't like it.

I'm not planning too many readings for next year, but want to do Hess. It's time that I should read him. I bought Hess/Mann letters and will read it. I might do Death in Venice by Mann as well.

Nidhi wrote: "I will try to read Wilhelm Meister's Apprenticeship

I like that book, Wilhelm Meister's Apprenticeship better than The Sorrows of Young Werther.

Cosmic wrote: "Nidhi wrote: "I will try to read Wilhelm Meister's Apprenticeship

I like that book, Wilhelm Meister's Apprenticeship better than The Sorrows of Young Werther."

So did I.

I didn't read the first one. But I didn't like the second one .

I have had The Magic Mountain on my bookshelf for a few years, I think that I will make this my goal for this year. If we are not reading this as a buddy read i would be interested in a Twin .

For January, I was trying to read Faust in the most recent English translation I could find, but no, I am going back to reading Faust in German, as I just cannot enjoy Faust in translation.

Cosmic wrote: "Nidhi wrote: "I will try to read Wilhelm Meister's Apprenticeship

I like that book, Wilhelm Meister's Apprenticeship better than The Sorrows of Young Werther."

So do I, the attitude of extreme entitlement that is pretty clearly shown by Werther gets to me and in particular since Goethe rather seems to condone his behaviour.

Luís wrote: "I didn't read the first one. But I didn't like the second one ."

I also have always found the second Wilhelm Meister novel not nearly as good as the first one, but really, you do in my opinion need to read and know the story of the first WM novel in order to appreciate the sequel. But the second novel does drag a lot.

Chrissie wrote: "Pam,, it's good you try it and form your own opinion. I hope it works better for you than it did for me. Me? I got so annoyed that I didn't finish it. Books I don't finish I give one star because I..."

Ever since university, where I had to push through a number of both French and German literature "classics" even though I found the books tedious and sometimes almost unreadable, I am now not really all that patient when reading for pleasure, and that also includes literary classics. If a writing style or a theme really drags or bothers me, I do tend to either drop the book or just do a very cursory skimming (to see if it might improve).

Chrissie wrote: "Re Zweig and Fallada:

Zweig I like a lot, but not Fallada.....on the other hand it feels good to have tested him. Fallada's Every Man Dies Alone I gave one star. He wrote it VERY q..."

I did not at all enjoy Hans Fallada at university and I seriously doubt that he will have improved for me, so no, not at all interested in trying again with Fallada.

John wrote: ""Johann Wolfgang von Goethe was a German poet, playwright, novelist, scientist, statesman, theatre director, and critic. His works include plays, poetry, literature, and aesthetic criticism, as wel..."

I would prefer Faust simply because I like the storyline better and have always had my issues with Werther as a character.

John wrote: "Our first "Quarterly" German author is Stefan Zweig, who was an Austrian novelist, playwright, journalist, and biographer. At the height of his literary career, in the 1920s and 1930s, he was one o..."

Stefan Zweig was very good friends with the author whom I covered for my PhD dissertation, Paul Zech. Their correspondence is both delightful and heartbreaking and shows in particular that at first, Stefan Zweig especially was very confident that the Nazis would not last (a very sad mistake).

I would also like to point out that Thomas Mann in particular was rather unnecessarily nasty towards many of his co-exilees, like Stefan Zweig and also my author Paul Zech (who went into exile in South America). Yes, Thomas Mann was probably a much better writer, but he also had a pretty cushy and easy existence in exile due to him being independently wealthy and having a lot of clout and connections even when in exile, which was not at all the case for either Stefan Zweig or for Paul Zech (who were not like Thomas Mann men of leisure, actually had to write and get their works published in order to make ends meet and thus often felt rushed to publish and to also use older materials already published in future pieces of writing).

Thanks for the various comments on "Werther" - I've started it, but too early to say much about it. In addition to that, I'm hoping to read Elective Affinities; has anyone already read that?

Manybooks wrote: "John wrote: "Our first "Quarterly" German author is Stefan Zweig, who was an Austrian novelist, playwright, journalist, and biographer. At the height of his literary career, in the 1920s and 1930s,..."

You're correct, Manybooks, Mann could be a bit condescending and critical of most other authors.

I read Elective Affinities for a university German course ages ago. I don't plan on rereading that one since it has stayed in my mind all these years. It's a book you don't forget.
I agree about the second Wilhelm Meister book. That one dragged.

John wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "John wrote: "Our first "Quarterly" German author is Stefan Zweig, who was an Austrian novelist, playwright, journalist, and biographer. At the height of his literary career, in th..."

Goethe was also a bit like that unfortunately.

Manybooks wrote: "Chrissie wrote: "Pam,, it's good you try it and form your own opinion. I hope it works better for you than it did for me. Me? I got so annoyed that I didn't finish it. Books I don't finish I give o..."

I know that in the past my view of a book CAN improve. If I think there is the slightest possibility of that, I will continue to the end. An author's prose style means a lot to me, so if I finish a book or not has a lot to do with that. The style is not going to change drastically halfway through.

Chrissie wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Chrissie wrote: "Pam,, it's good you try it and form your own opinion. I hope it works better for you than it did for me. Me? I got so annoyed that I didn't finish it. Books I don..."

Writing style is also a huge issue for me, and if I cannot stand the style, reading a given book (even if the themes are interesting and even if the book is world-famous) will be or will often be a chore I do not personally want.