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Racism
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Mod
Noice. Why do you say it's still a big problem? I'm legit just curious haha.
What there to debate on this topic. Not to be rude but I can’t think of one thing in this topic that is up for debate.
Mod
Maybe just state your position? There might be someone that disagrees with you. (Like me) XD
I mean, I think anyone in their right mind agrees that racism is bad, but I disagree, I think there's a lot that can be debated.
Ok…Racism is bad and should be considered criminal because it’s a hate crime.
Mod
Racism is bad and should be considered criminal because it’s a hate crime."
Okay I think I mostly agree with you on that. What do you think constitutes racism? How is it evidenced in society? Have you observed racism in your...school? at home? in the marketplace? etc and so forth. Basically, what would be the standard by which we would accuse people of committing this hate crime?
@abby I see it less of a debate too, maybe just more of a space to share our opinions and educate each other :) Good questions, Denali!!
I guess I’ll just answer them in order, enjoy my essay 😂
1. Is racism institutional, or is it individual?
It’s both! Racism is inherent in the system, and also an individual bias and hatred. Systemic racism is a huge problem, caused by the racist attitudes of racially biased people over time.
2. Are you racist if you’re white?
No, of course not automatically! You can be racist, but that’s not a default white person setting. I do think that being non-racist is more than just not being racist, though. You need to actively acknowledge the system of privilege that you’ve benefited from that POC haven’t (historically or even currently) had access to, and take a stand for justice and equality wherever you can to help those who are being oppressed. For me, Isaiah 1:17 comes to mind: “Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.” God calls Christians to be at the forefront of fighting for equality, and so I personally try in many areas of my life to be inclusive to others, and dismantle some unconsciously learned biases or behaviors that I still may have against POC.
3. Are you a victim if you’re a minority?
Hmm…this one is tricky. I think that often, minorities are definitely victims of racism, racist biases in the system, hate crimes, etc. So yes, most if not all minorities and people from a minority background are victims at some point of racist hatred and crimes.
4. Is racism still a massive problem in society, or is it fading out?
Racism is definitely a huge problem!! Here’s a personal anecdote to explain my perspective :) So I live in Minnesota, just an hour away from Minneapolis, and for a long time when I was little I thought that racism wasn’t that bad anymore. My parents don’t usually watch the news or anything, so
I hadn’t heard about the deaths of people like Breonna Taylor or Michael Brown. Many people think that racism died out in the 60s with the civil rights movement, but that simply isn’t true—and nothing showed me this more than my proximity to the death of George Floyd and the subsequent riots. I was absolutely floored that something like what happened to him had happened, that it had happened so close to me, in a city I had always felt safe in, and that things like this went on all the time in so many cities across America and the world. I felt safe in Minneapolis, or when walking around my neighborhood, or when in a grocery store, but I was forced to confront the fact that for some POC, that safety is a really rare experience. If people you’re supposed to be able to trust, officers of the law, who are supposed to UPHOLD justice and equality, but then turn around and murder innocent people because of the color of their skin, we have a huge problem. Racism is incredibly present in the structure of our society and the way we see people of color. just a few examples: stereotypes of the “mammy” or “angry black woman” in films, books, and pop culture, causing black women and women of color to be stereotyped for showing emotion or frustration, or the stereotype that every Black man is a drug addict or gangster; the fact that Black and Latina women earn on average 57–63 cents to every white man’s dollar (this data is from the U.S. Census Bureau, in case you want sources); the fact that POC are less likely to be employed on average than whites, the fact that when white people take from the culture of POC it’s “cool” and “hip”, but when POC are honoring their culture and traditions through celebrations or hairstyles, it’s “cringe” or “unprofessional”. These are just a few examples—and as a white person, I’m only
speaking to what I’ve observed. For POC, there are so many more examples of everyday racism than what I’ve described here, which is incredibly unfortunate.
5. What should we do about racism?
I addressed this a bit before (see question 2), but in a nutshell we should fight for the voices and experiences of POC to be heard and validated. We should work on removing racism from the existing system as much as possible, or create new ways of doing things to promote equality and justice in all areas of life. We should dismantle racist stereotypes, work to remove taught racist ways of thinking from our minds and those of our children, and champion diversity and acceptance for people regardless of skin color, socioeconomic background, ethnicity, religion, or nationality.
These are my opinions, open to debate if anyone wants :)
My Opinions!
1. Racism is an incredibly large problem nowadays that NEEDS to be exterminated.
2. You can be racist if you are black
1. Racism is an incredibly large problem nowadays that NEEDS to be exterminated.
2. You can be racist if you are black
@vee those are great opinions! I wanna get your take on your last point a little bit—I’ve heard two different arguments that both make sense. One is: The dictionary defines racism as prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, one that is a minority or marginalized. So the idea here is that POC can certainly be racially biased, prejudiced, or bigoted against others, but because of the inherent nature of racism being perpetrated by a majority on a minority, the word racism doesn’t apply when it’s racial bias on a white person.
Another is: the secondary definition of racism is the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another. All people of all races could fall into this definition of racism, as the root of racism is seeing other people as different (better or worse) than yourself. So under this dictionary definition, POC can indeed be racist towards white peoples, even though whites are the majority race.
What do you think?
One thing I really want to point out is that racism goes both ways. One thing I absolutely cannot stand is that POC people think that they also have the right to be racist just because we've stood up for what's right. I'm a POC middle schooler and I hate seeing kids actually be racist toward white people especially, saying that they are being disrespectful to them by stupid things like simply looking at them and it's just so irritating. Yes, white people have been racist most of the time, but just because they have been pointed out for their wrongs doesn't give you the right to shove those wrongs right back at them. They're still people, just like you. They don't have any right to judge you because of your skin color, but neither do you. Being POC doesn't automatically give you the right to be racist.
Kids at my school say they are .002% black so they can say the N word. They are incredibly racist,
You can’t be racist towards white people.
Yes You can abby! This is the definition of racism in the dictionary -
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group. Ethnic or race can mean any group. Plus I have had a POC jump me in the hall and try to beat me up because I am white
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group. Ethnic or race can mean any group. Plus I have had a POC jump me in the hall and try to beat me up because I am white
Mod
White people can face racism because of the privilege we have. White people can face xenophobia but not racism.
@austin No one here thinks that racism, racial prejudice, or xenophobia is okay. We are simply discussing the meaning and definition of the word “racism”. Whether to white people or people of color, racial bias and bigotry is never okay, but racism is a loaded word that can encapsulate different things to different people depending on their opinions.
Mod
Erm…yep, again, no one is saying that it’s okay to be racially bigoted towards anyone. If you read my original comment, and the one above yours, you would see that I don’t think that racial prejudice is ever okay. Never. You don’t have to be a “90’s kid” to know that racism is wrong 😂 Again, none of us are saying that racial bigotry is okay. We’re not. I’m not sure where you’re getting this idea from, none of the comments in this thread have said anything remotely to the tune of “it’s okay to be racially prejudiced towards white people!” Could you clarify for me where you’re seeing this in the discussion so we can discuss it?
Mod
I’m not sure what you call this then.
Not to speak over Abby, if I’m misinterpreting her words, but I think she’s of the opinion that racial bias, prejudice, and bigotry can certainly be things that any racial group experiences, racism is a word that describes a majority (here in the us, whites) being racially bigoted towards a minority (POC). She’s not saying that white people can’t experience racial bias, but she is saying that to her the definition of racism is a majority biased against a minority, and therefore doesn’t apply to people being biased against whites. (Totally correct me if I’m wrong, Abby, but I was just trying to summarize what I see as your position for the sake of moving the debate forward 😊)
(See her comment “White people can’t face racism because of the privilege we have. White people can face xenophobia but not racism”.)
Mod
Interesting take…agree to disagree? :) I’m really interested in your answers to Denali’s questions, would you care to share your thoughts on some of them?
Mod
HEY EVERYONE!!!
I don't have time to actually debate this in depth, but I'mma present my 2 cents and y'all can take it and run. Please destroy my opinion all you like I will not have time to defend it but don't be afraid to say things! XD
I am a bit of a, idk, closet conservative you might say lol and so I'm going to have some differing opinions from what it sounds like most of y'all have (playing devil's advocate and as previously stated disappearing lol)
And before I write any of this, I want to mention that I see racism in all of its various definitions as bad. I'm not trying to say it's not with anything I've written, though some of you might see it that way. :)
1) I actually see very little evidence for a, idk, continuing institutionalism of racism, if that makes sense? I don't think that racism was completely eradicated during the civil rights movement, as clearly it wasn't, but I think we don't have as much of a problem of previous systemic racism as people trying to force it to become systemic now. Idk if that made any sense lol. I see things that are being taught in public schools (for example, what Austin brought up about the minorities vs majorities) as problematic as they try to force racism into everything. My main thing here too is the CRT stuff that's been going on. CRT is messed up. It's based on faulty premises and faulty logic and is going to yield bad results. Period. (Feel free to challenge me here I don't have time rn to present evidence but I'll for sure try to present some at some point here haha) Anyways, that's my two cents on my own question. XD
2) Uh, no. Obviously not. Everyone has a choice to be racist or not, and I think there have (obviously) been plenty of racist white people in the past, and plenty of unracist white people in the past, and we've been shoved into categories that are based on skin color, not prejudice. It's an issue.
3) Also, no. Again, there's been plenty of victimhood in the past, but that doesn't mean that being a minority equals being a victim. The victomhood mindset can actually be extremely damaging, and it is also extremely insulting to the minority. It basically ends up saying that if you're a minority, you're too dumb or too victimized to be able to excel. Idk if that made sense but victimhood in general can be a very damaging mindset to hold and I think the victimhood mindset forced on minorities, more than "white privilege," is the problem. (fight me! XD)
4) Actually, I'mma be REALLY radical now and say no, it's not as massive of a problem as it's been made out to be. I think the bigger problem is the fact that we keep getting sorted into categories, like those I brought up. CRT does this. CRT is at it's core racist, and trying to solve racism with racism is pretty reductive. So because of CRT, racism is still a problem, but without CRT, and if we were just left to be nice, normal human beings who understand that racial prejudice is bad, I think we'd be much better off. There's much more value in speaking up and saying something than being forced into a category based on the color of your skin. Did that make sense?
5) WORDS ARE HELPFUL. Lol this is actually all I can say in answer to this question! Words are powerful things, and speaking kindly, gently, and respectfully goes much further than screaming unintelligible rage. So I think that yes, if there is injustice, it's important to say something calmly. I think it's also important to know what's really racist and what's just people being jerks. And finally, I think it's important to do your own research. Many of the things that have happened that have been "racist" have been blown far out of proportion by the media and I think that it's important to understand what is really going on from independent sources. I'm not saying racism isn't a thing; I'm saying don't trust everything you hear.
Okay, I hope you enjoyed my essay, feel free to pick it apart and tell me what you disagree with, and until next time...DENALI OUT! *salutes*
Mod
Are you racist if you're white? Obviously no it comes from your actions. Anyone of any color can be racist or a victim of racism.
Are you a victim if you're a minority? No, I know enough people who have grown up in bad places and moved up in the world for me to not believe this.
Is racism still a massive problem in society, or is it fading out? There was a time in the 2000's or 2010's where I would say it is fading out. But now I think it is back and only getting worse. I've seen all sides of it. I've talked to Neo nazis and heard their hate as well as had friends hurt by racial violence.
What should we do about it? We need to stop seeing color, treat people like people and stop diving ourselves up into groups that don't really exist.
Mod
Def agree with these statements
Interesting takes Denali and Austin! Thanks for sharing :)Now…I kinda have to ask some questions…where do you guys see evidence of racism not being institutional? What are your guys’ perspectives on “not seeing color” like Austin said? (I have some thoughts on this one 😅) What is the difference between being a victim and participating in victimhood (if there’s a difference)? (I have thoughts on this one too 😂) And later I have a handy-dandy psych resource to share that i think might be applicable :)
Mod
I think my perspective on not seeing color is already described. Respect someone as a person not as their race. Like MLK wanted.
I’m gonna let you say your peace in the victim stuff I know people like to make it more complex than it is.
Austin wrote: "Is racism institutional, or is it individual? I understand the arguments for it being institutional. I just think the evidence is poor and there is way more evidence to the contrary. So I think rac..."I'm gonna focus on the "not seeing colour part"
I think that racism is leaning towards individual nowadays and I think that the way to fix that is to not stop seeing people in colour/by colour but by changing they way we look at people, so that we respect and value each person of whatever race.
My example is going to be from movies.
*bringing up percy jackson
The actor that has been casted as Annabeth (a white girl in the books) is black. Lots of people are saying that its racist to not want a black girl playing the role meant for a white person but to be honest, I think that being colourblind is not the answer to racism its creating parts for meant for all different races. There should be TV shows and movies where a person of colour is the lead but the way to fix the problem that there isn't is not to cast a coloured person in the role that was originally meant for a white person. The way to fix it is to write new stories and scripts where the lead IS a coloured person. Not change it to "seem" like your inclusive.
The way to solve racism is not by ignoring colour but by celebrating each colour and seeing differences in a positive way.
We should be inclusive and address the problems in our society without putting tape over a break and calling it fixed.
^^^^^^^^YES. EXACTLY. that was so so so well put, I agree 100%!!! When you don’t see color, you don’t see a part of peoples’ individuality and uniqueness. If the whole world looks the same to you, you’re missing out on how people’s heritage and culture can be really important to them, and how they can take pride in that and their skin color or background. Don’t use color to divide or oppress others, but see it as a natural expression of God’s creativity in creating us, His Masterpieces. I think it’s so important to cultivate diversity naturally, like you were saying in the case of movies or shows. By reflecting the natural uniqueness of the world we live in, we naturally create roles for POC, or books about POC, or any number of inclusive things. One other thing—recently, I saw a protest poster with the message “if you can’t see color…you can’t see patterns”. That message really made sense to me! If you see everyone the same, you miss patterns of oppression. Patterns of racism or bias or hate. You miss where POC are being mistreated, because you’re trying to apply a uniform fix (not seeing differences) over a wildly diverse issue.
And in response to something Austin said, of course people should be treated as people and not just members of a racial group! Race is only a tiny part of what makes a human being a human being, but it is a part. So by ignoring that, it minimizes who someone is. Instead of ignoring or rejecting all differences, or in the worst case, using them to oppress and divide people, we should celebrate those human differences positively and with love—uniqueness makes us human!
Mod
O humanity! Indeed, We created you from a male and a female, and made you into peoples and tribes so that you may ˹get to˺ know one another. Surely the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous among you. Allah is truly All-Knowing, All-Aware. (Quran-49:13)
“An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab, nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab ... a white person has no superiority over a black, nor does a black have any superiority over white except by piety and good action.” (Prophet Muhammad)
As a Muslim that summarizes my view of different races.
So for the people saying that racism isn’t institutional i would say that it is and i’m going to explain why i think this as brief as possible because i don’t feel like writing a lot.Honestly i understand why people would say that they don’t think racism is institutional because as of right now it’s not like we have any inherent racist laws worked into the government. There aren’t any laws preventing people of color from achieving what white people can, but, in the past there have been.
The main reason for institutional racism is because of the past, for example, and i’m going to focus on black people although there are many other examples.
Everyone knows about slavery in the US and such a thing like that causes a lot of ripple affects. there was a period where almost every black person in the US was owned by another person, and when slavery was finally abolished it was very hard for black people to get back on their feet and join society in a country that still treated them terribly. And obviously this has affected black people as a whole and is part of the reason why poverty has been passed down generationally thro
in black families. the fact that black people couldnt go to libraries or pools still show in the population today,
Even if you don’t believe in institutional racism today when something so huge happens to a population even if it’s 100 years ago it’s going to have effects that last generations.
So yes although as of today there aren’t any specific laws targeting people of color the government can get real creative.
EVERYONE BE RESPECTFUL, BE KIND, AND DO NOT SAY ANYTHING TO SOMEONE ELSE THAT YOU WOULD NOT BE OKAY WITH HEARING FROM SOMEONE ELSE.
With no further ado, here's some things we can chat about.
Is racism institutional, or is it individual?
Are you racist if you're white?
Are you a victim if you're a minority?
Is racism still a massive problem in society, or is it fading out?
What should we do about it?
I have many a thought on this subject so I'll probably be diving into this debate quite often.
HAPPY DISCUSSING!