Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

This is a Buddy Read for Shorefall by Robert Jackson Bennett starting May 15, 2023.

I am finishing up an audio now, 7 hours remaining so I should be ready to start this a day late or so. Looking forward to it!

Finished part 1 last night, liking it a lot so far. (view spoiler)[The gang is all back but I was surprised at the time jump, was not expecting 3 years, maybe a few weeks. All of the good from book 1 has been present so far here as well which is wonderful. (hide spoiler)]

Finished part 2 (view spoiler)[Crasedes is ridiculously OP and basically kicking ass pretty easily so far. There is a lot going on here for sure, tons of action & violence which is good for me. I have concerns about Gregor, like he is going to sacrifice himself for some noble reason because he is giving off big hates himself vibes. That poor guy, his mom is the absolute worst!

This one is darker than book 1, maybe missing the interactions with Clef? I am missing that a bit.... (hide spoiler)]

Part 3 (view spoiler)[Clef is back!!!!! <3 <3<3



We get more info about Gregor and it is still very sad! And then they KILLED HIM! Why risk that? I mean he is back but I still think him not surviving the book is a possibility. Valeria is still sketchy af but I don't think she is on Crasedes's side, she is just going to do whatever is necessary to defeat him regardless of who dies. Looks like more action soon in part 4 (hide spoiler)]

I started my re-read... not very far yet... but my internet analogy from the first book, continues to bear fruit... (view spoiler)[ the twinning technique sounds like WiFi or a signal extender...

And Foundryside's new business model sounds like a freely available coding library or Github, the open source tool for sharing and copying/forking people's coding projects to improve/expand... (hide spoiler)]

I'll be along by Saturday hopefully... just got my book today from the library but didn't time it well, finished my previous book too soon and had to start something new in the interim....

2 hours to go on the audio and (view spoiler)[I have concerns about Orso making it through this one as well! And Ofelia caused the accident? I mean that is not a stretch but this is the second female that was mistreated/passed over in the series who has fought back and caused havoc, maybe being a misogynist society is not the best idea, hmmmmm? Also clearly I was wrong about Valeria..... (hide spoiler)]

Part 4 done (view spoiler)[Gregor, noooo! I should have seen the Clef/Crasedes thing for sure, I failed at predicting here, I thought the opposite was true. Let's see how this plays out, 35 minutes left.... (hide spoiler)]

Finished.....

(view spoiler)[What a shit ending! If I had to wait 2 years to complete the series it is likely that would not have happened. I thought this was much darker than book 1 and Gregor is essentially gone and Orso is definitely gone, wtaf is up with that? I am not a fan of the ending. "Looks like the war is just starting!"

/end book

HATE THAT!

I feel like the 3 year time jump was not a good thing. I had doubts about Orso in book 1 and all of a sudden he is all for the little guy? The relationship between Sancia & Bereniece developed, not like the reader had any insight with that. Was Gregor a zombie that entire time?

And maybe I misunderstood the motivations but the big bads did not have evil intentions at heart, right? Like their actions were evil, but what they wanted to accomplish was not really bad. But Trevane is evil? Like am I supposed to care if they defeat him in book 3 or is he just going to fly away?

I will end my rant here, I didn't hate the book but I did hate the ending and thankfully it is less than 2 weeks before I start the final book not 2 years lol (hide spoiler)]

Ann-Marie wrote: "Finished..."

(view spoiler)[the next book jumps ahead 8 years... the plot sounds very matrix 2... with Sancia needing to reach the Heart of Creation to beat Trevane & the Heirophant... (hide spoiler)]

Timelord Iain wrote: "Ann-Marie wrote: "Finished..."

[spoilers removed]"

Seriously? I am extra glad I don't have to wait 2 years now!

Timelord Iain wrote: "I started my re-read... not very far yet... but my internet analogy from the first book, continues to bear fruit... the twinning technique sounds like WiFi or a signal extender...

And Foundryside..."

Doing the eyebook, up to Chapter 6 and really enjoying again. I really like your parallels Iain! (view spoiler)[And I really like how San & Ber are an official couple now! So cute. Made me tear up a little when Sancia went in to talk to Clef... kind of like talking to a loved one in a coma...

I really do like their new "business model" and seeing other Lamplighters come to them for advice... nice to see Orso is still as grumpy as his namesake.

If The Master is something coming back from a tomb on the isles, then I wonder what the moth-thingy chatting with Gregor's mother was... (hide spoiler)]

I am up to Ch. 6 as well... I don't know, but (view spoiler)[ I am one of the few who thought that the relationship of S+B was very well hinted at in the first volume and I still find it wonderful!

Orso is perfect for the new business model and I am loving their ideas, but am still worried about the chaos that could potentially follow... Humanity as a whole is very self-destructive, and some rules tend to keep us from annihilating each other...

Glad to see everyone still together 3 years later though... (hide spoiler)]

re: Romance!! (view spoiler)[I agree, it was totally well hinted! They were so cute... it's so nice to see them all the way in to a relationship now too... I keep saying "awww" a lot... (hide spoiler)]

I'm burning right along, probably finish tomorrow. Into Chapter 34 now... (view spoiler)[Bennett's leaving all sorts of hints all over the place. Making us guess things... but are they red herrings?

Starting to doubt myself a bit, but it was said somewhere that Craesawhatsit Maker Dude had a son, right? Or lost a son? Or a child? I can't help but think that Clef is that son... maybe not the same person as was seen in the vision, with the wrists marked from bondage, but maybe another sibling? Related somehow. Like, what if he sacrificed one child to try to bend reality to get the other one back? Or brought his son back only for it to not take well enough, and had to bind him into the key? I just remember, when Clef gave us his real name in book 1 (I didn't imagine that, right? it hasn't been mentioned again) that it sounded an awful lot like Crass Dude's name, enough that I thought for a minute they were the same... Similar names are often used in families...

Why would Valencia have to go and mention that the twinning plate being used by Gregor would mean they wouldn't be able to separate? *groan* Readers know that's gonna happen now. But I don't want Gregor to have to sacrifice himself!!

I really like the philosophical argument of the whole book. If you force people to be better people they aren't being better people... Free will or nada! It is interesting how Crass Daddy doesn't see his arguments as the hypocritical things they are... oh, people are too violent, let me kill them all. Oh, power is corrupting, let me take all the power for myself then.

I also would punch Ofelia in the face if I could. Well, no, probably not, I've never punched anyone. But I'd think about it really hard. I keep thinking she's violated the most sacred tenet between parent and child (from the child's POV, not a parent so can't say from other)--not accepting her son for who he is, trying to force him to be someone he is not. Not letting him make his own decisions and make his own path... She, at least, more than Crass Dude, at least seems to realize it. Wondering if/when she'll act on that realization? (hide spoiler)]

@Ann-Marie--loved your observations and HAPPY DANCE! (view spoiler)[was sad we only got Clef for a little bit so far... and omg Crass Dude is so OP. Though at the same time, I'm not quite getting the sense of urgency I have in other books, like say, Dresden, when odds are mega-stacked. More curiosity--hm, how will the gang get out of this one? There is something fascinating about seeing a bad guy come in and just wipe the floor with a whole city in what? 24 hours?

Also, who wants Clef to get a body again? Hands? Fingers crossed--they're doing all this reality editing, why not? (hide spoiler)]

Just finished Ch. 30... I am flying through it as well... A lot of what you are saying makes sense to me... (view spoiler)[ First, wanted to mention, the ship was pretty gruesome, and you can't help but imagine the horror that The Maker is, that drives everyone who sees him to madness and suicide... That was a wonderfully written sequence!

My heart goes out to Ofelia D... I know, she has plotted and killed her abusive husband and wants better for everyone in the world, but her guilt is making her blind to all the horrible things she is doing by bringing the Maker back, in order to "erase all the bad things she has done", because of his promises to make everything "better"... I think she agreed to that control plate in his head, because he was either dying or dead at that point, it wasn't so she would actually control him. However, as time went on, she did use it for control... Still, she could have been using it all the time, but she only does when Crass Dude tells her he needs something done... If it was to please her, she would have kept him by her side despite his own will... In my opinion.

You are right, people who are programmed to not have the option of being or doing "bad" are not people at all. We are human because we have Free Will. No, we don't always choose what is best for us or humanity as a whole, but we are given a chance to learn and do better... or mess up again, depending on the person...

Regarding Clef, I want to think that he is Crass Dude's son, from that scene that Sancia saw in Valeria's memory, but I think the author is being purposely obscure... I am certain Clef and Crasedes are related, but who is who? And what is Valeria to them? Something there, I just can't put my finger on it... The three of them are interconnected, I just don't know how...

Nirkatze, you are so right! When we were told that Valeria can't get into Gregor, because they will get stuck in one, my immediate thought was - so Gregor will be getting stuck with Valeria, darn it! He can't catch a break and is bound to be a puppet for powerful entities... :(((

We finally got Clef back! I am joining Ann-Marie in the Happy Dance! I love him and I really, really hope he doesn't betray them all... We truly don't know much about him or why he is the way he is, and that is a wild card in my eyes... I also agree more with Ann-Marie on Ofelia's motivations... She wants her son back and will do anything to restore him to his natural state...

I have to say, Berenice is turning out to be my favorite character, together with Orso. I love when she is on page. I am very weary of the Pirate lady - good intentions, but a fanatic and will do anything for her ideals, without thinking through the consequences at all... Inflexible thinking in a leader of any kind, is a very bad idea... Those people tend to scare me... (hide spoiler)]

I am in a very interesting place of the book - just started Part 4 and you know things are heading to a pivotal point of the story. Things have been boiling and I think might soon explode... I am very excited to be reading this!

Finished... I am with you - that was a very unhappy ending...:((( But it had me engrossed from beginning to end and it was very, very good! I was not really surprised that (view spoiler)[ Clef was the First and the dad... Crasedes is really a stunted young man, and it makes sense for his obsessions to be not very reasonable, despite somewhat of a good intent... I wonder what exactly happened with the two of them and what is Valeria's role... Could she be a sister or a mother? Could she have been one of Clef's first creations/experiments? There is something the author wants us to feel without telling us yet, and it's something personal, not just a construct...

Orso!!!!!!!!!! My poor Orso! And of course Gregor and Ofelia.... I am really hoping that Orso somehow survived and that they will find a way to free Gregor... Ofelia was a very tragic character to me and I was actually very sad when she died... I know that was a good way for her to go, but I was still very sad for her life - it's one of those you wish she could have erased and started over again... (hide spoiler)]

After this ending, I am very much looking forward to the next book. When are we reading it?

I forgot to mention... (view spoiler)[ About the human twinning... I don't know how I feel about that. I wouldn't want someone, let alone more than one someones, to have full access to my thoughts and feelings. I understand the concept of being unable to judge the other, because you start perceiving them as yourself, but it's not just that. If all you know is twinning with others, then you still lose your own persenhood, don't you? Then you don't have unique perspectives to bring and creativity would be stifled. I can see how it can be beneficial if you have had plenty of solo experience with life and then twinning could bring clarity to a whole new level, but not as a long term endeavor. Sancia said on several occasions that the solution to everything would be to twin as many people as possible and I really, really hope she doesn't try to do that... Humans are not meant for hive minds. We like and need to belong, but we also need to be individuals. I really hope the author doesn't go there... (hide spoiler)]

I just finished too! (view spoiler)[By the time Sancia came around to the "revelation" that she thought Clef was Crasedes' son, I was thinking, nope, red herring it is then. @Choko I think you're totally right about how Bennett was being sort of sneakily obscure... like, leaving breadcrumbs that were obvious, having his characters ignore them, then find them... and @Ann-Marie, totally led us all to the opposite. Should've been a hint with Clef's whole "Kid" business though, yah?

I was surprised at the whole thing about Crasedes still being a boy at heart, and the whole creations etc were actually Clef originally... Crass Dude was carrying on his father's legacy.

Would not be at all surprised if Valeria was a sister or daughter... that scene of tossing the doll got repeated more than once... she doesn't remember her origins either.

I was not surprised by the ending... typical mid-trilogy depths of despair ending. LotR. Hunger Games. Whatever. Name a trilogy, book two ends with the world gone to crap and all hope lost.

Gonna miss Orso something fierce though. I'm glad he got to do what he always wanted, to tell his surrogate daughter Bernice he was proud of her... that got me in the tear ducts....

And Ofelia too... a lot of parental figures got their big goodbyes here.... (hide spoiler)]

@Choko, re: Twinning--(view spoiler)[I was thinking about that some too, but I think there are two points that can be made...

1) it's not permanent! They're going to pass the little plates soon. I like how... was it Orso? One of them said they thought it was something everyone should try once in their life. I could see it being like getting earring piercings. You can check in and access the mind-net, check out when you're overwhelmed...

2) I was thinking it as less like a hivemind, and more like a telepathic peoples... like Treecats in the Honor Harrington books, or the Mutes in Jack McDevitt's Alex Benedict series, or the Acorna books... it also makes me think a little of the Blake Crouch book last year, which solved humanity's problems by spreading empathy...

...though I definitely agree that Bennett didn't really explore the potential repercussions of the twinning... made it seem like it was all sunshine outside of the initial calibration... what about all the bad memories? What about things you don't want to share? What about getting lost and not being able to find yourself? Definitely a lot of potential downsides. I would like to see this explored more, but not as a simple panacea. (hide spoiler)]

Exactly! I like the idea of tuning in and out as you want, but maybe have some restrictions, or guidelines, or something, so you don't get lost in the "many" ... But then you lose the initial idea of experiencing the world as someone else, becoming that else, and understanding that in our core we all are alike... I think, if I had a choice, I would go with the empathy gene from Upgrade myself...

Hear hear!

Ann-Marie wrote: "Finished.....

If I had to wait 2 ye.."

Yeah I had to reread these because of that... I know its generally a good thing to read books as they're released for like supporting the author and all that, but BOY do I hate not being able to read the next book because it doesn't exist yet lol

I really liked the concept of twinning here, but it also kind of scares the hell out of me. I'm a very private person for the most part and to know that someone else can have an insight into my brain is terrifying lol. Perhaps that means I should give that a try if given the choice to get out of a comfort zone :D
Hive-minds are super interesting to me, but I don't think that's where the twinning thing is going

Hey y'all, I realized I never did comment over here. I started Shorefall - gods - like over a month ago now, and have tried to squeeze in a few pages here or there during my lunch break at work, but it has been so busy lately that I barely get a break at all.

I'm still in part one... chapter 9. (-_-;;;)

I think I just kept on expecting to dig in and read a bigger chunk to have more to comment on, but here we are.

I also was expecting a time leap of perhaps a few weeks, and was surprised to find the characters years on in their story. It sort of makes sense, because that way their work is well-established, and it makes sense that it would take time to do all the Research and Development on their end.

It does seem like the second book is continuing with its successive series of missions/heists. Currently on the ship, ready to carry out the next.