The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

This thread arises from a discussion in the BTBA 2021 speculation thread about creating our own list to fill the void left by the BTBA. There are a lot of ideas there, so it is worth reading the discussion there too.

As a starting point, we thought we could take the translated books from the group's favourites of 2022 list, but we could take a few additional nominations to cover any other translations that appeared in 2022 (no more 2021 books please). I am open to suggestions on how many, but my initial suggestion would be to limit it to three new nominations per person. I propose closing nominations on Friday 27th January and running dynamic rankings until at least the end of March.

We can also use this thread to continue the discussion, and I will create a rankings thread once we have an agreed list. I am also open to suggestions on anything else we can do to make this more inclusive.

I think these are all of the translations from the 2022 favourites list, excluding books published in English in 2021:

Absence by Lucie Paye tr. Natasha Lehrer (21/6/2022 (2020), Mookse favourites)
Call Me Cassandra by Marcial Gala tr. Anna Kushner (11/1/2022 (2019), Mookse favourites)
Chinatown by Thuận tr. Nguyễn An Lý (21/6/2022 (2005), Mookse favourites)
Cocoon by Zhang Yueran tr. Jeremy Tiang (4/10/2022 (2019), Mookse favourites)
December Breeze by Marvel Moreno tr. Isabel Adey, Charlotte Coombe (15/11/2022 (1987), Mookse favourites)
Diary of a Void by Emi Yagi tr. David Boyd, Lucy North (9/8/2022 (2020), Mookse favourites)
My Annihilation by Fuminori Nakamura tr. Sam Bett (11/1/2022 (2016), Mookse favourites)
Mystery Train by Can Xue tr. Natascha Bruce (18/10/2022 (2016), Mookse favourites)
The Pachinko Parlour by Elisa Shua Dusapin tr. Aneesa Abbas Higgins (18/8/2022 (2018), Mookse favourites)
Pollak's Arm by Hans van Trotha tr. Elisabeth Lauffer (15/2/2022 (2021), Mookse favourites)
Querelle de Roberval by Kevin Lambert tr. Donald Winkler (2/8/2022 (2018), Mookse favourites)
Solenoid by Mircea Cărtărescu tr. Sean Cotter (25/10/2022 (2015), Mookse favourites)
Solo Dance by Kotomo Li tr. Arthur Reiji Morris (7/6/2022 (2018), Mookse favourites)
Still Born by Guadalupe Nettel tr. Rosalind Harvey (22/6/2022 (2020), Mookse favourites)
Strega by Johanne Lykke Holm tr. Saskia Vogel (15/11/2022 (2020), Mookse favourites)
Tender by Ariana Harwicz tr. Annie McDermott, Carolina Orloff (15/2/2022 (2015), Mookse favourites)
Thirsty Sea by Erica Mou tr. Clarissa Botsford (17/5/2022 (2020), Mookse favourites)
Thread Ripper by Amalie Smith tr. Jennifer Russell (1/6/2022 (2020), Mookse favourites)
Time Shelter by Georgi Gospodinov tr. Angela Rodel (10/5/2022 (2020), Mookse favourites)
Too Much of Life: Complete Chronicles by Clarice Lispector tr. Margaret Jull Costa, Robin Patterson (1/9/2022 (2018), Mookse favourites)
Twilight of Torment: Melancholy by Léonora Miano tr. Gila Walker (8/7/2022 (2016), Mookse favourites)
Valli by Sheela Tomy tr. Jayasree Kalathil (25/7/2022 (2021), Mookse favourites)
When I Sing, Mountains Dance by Irene Solà tr. Mara Faye Lethem (15/3/2022 (2019), Mookse favourites)
When Women Kill: Four Crimes Retold by Alia Trabucco Zerán tr. Sophie Hughes (3/3/2022 (2019), Mookse favourites)

Additional nominations:

The People Immortal by Vasily Grossman tr. Robert Chandler, Elizabeth Chandler (27/9/2022 (1942), Hugh)
Glory Hole by Kim Hyun tr. Shuhyun J. Ahn, Archana Madhavan (10/6/2022 (????), David)
Bad Girls by Camila Sosa Villada tr. Kit Maude (3/5/2022 (2019), Tracy)
Weasels in the Attic by Hiroshi Oyamada tr. David Boyd (4/10/2022 (????), Tracy)
Witches by Brenda Lozano tr. Heather Cleary (16/8/2022 (2020), Tracy)
Stories of the True by Jeyamohan tr. Priyamvada (5/8/2022 (2011), Arun)
Dead-End Memories: Stories by Banana Yoshimoto tr. Asa Yoneda (9/8/2022 (2003), Arun)
Dead Lands by Núria Bendicho tr. Maruxa Relaño, Martha Tennent (14/7/2022 (2021), David)

Of Saints and Miracles by Manuel Astur tr. Claire Wadie (7/6/2022 (2020), Phyllis)
Victorious by Yishai Sarid tr. Yardenne Greenspan (20/9/2022 (2020), Phyllis)
Ti Amo by Hanne Ørstavik tr. Martin Aitken (6/7/2022 (2020), Paul)
Is Mother Dead by Vigdis Hjorth tr. Charlotte Barslund (27/9/2022 (2020), Paul)
Down With the Poor! by Shumona Sinha tr. Teresa Lavender Fagan (7/7/2022 (2011), Paul)
Hugs and Cuddles by João Gilberto Noll tr. Edgar Garbelotto (18/8/2022 (2008), endrju)
Paradise by Fernanda Melchor tr. Sophie Hughes (23/2/2022 (2021), endrju)
The Last Days of Terranova by Manuel Rivas tr. Jacob Rogers (11/10/2022 (2015), Phyllis)
A Mountain to the North, a Lake to the South, Paths to the West, a River to the East by László Krasznahorkai tr. Ottilie Mulzet (8/11/2022 (2003), Vesna)
The Famous Magician by César Aira tr. Chris Andrews (27/9/2022 (2013), Vesna)
Kibogo by Scholastique Mukasonga tr. Mark Polizzotti (13/9/2022 (2020), Vesna)
Mister N by Najwa Baraket tr. Luke Leafgreen (17/5/2022 (2019), David)
The Lost Spell by Yismake Worku tr. Bethlehem Attfield (1/8/2022 (2013), Hugh)

All the Lovers in the Night by Mieko Kawakami tr. Sam Bett, David Boyd (3/5/2022 (2014), Debra)
All Your Children, Scattered by Beata Umebyeyi Mairesse tr. Alison Anderson (23/8/2022 (2019), Hugh)

Would Heaven qualify?

That was published in English in 2021 and quite widely read then, so probably not, unless we change the rules.

The one I'd like to be able to add but haven't read yet because it is still too expensive is The People Immortal by Vasily Grossman.

Hugh, thank you for taking on this task. Can we extend the voting deadline to mid-February or so and perhaps increase a bit the number of nominations? Some of us might want to read more from this list as there are many attractive titles. As for the number of nominations, someone like Paul (and others, including you) reads a lot of current translations and nominating 3-4 would bring a greater awareness about some titles, regardless of their ranking.

I deliberately left the deadline for nominations open, but I don't want to allow 2023 books so we will have to exclude those (and if the interest is there, we could discuss 2023 books throughout the year, maybe in a separate thread). If the scope is 2022 it might be better to exclude all of the 2021 books, but I am open to persuasion on that too.

The BTBA had separate categories for fiction and poetry. Are we limiting our selections to fiction or is genre bending permitted?

I ask because I'd like to nominate Glory Hole, a work that is labeled poetry by the publisher but blends fiction/poetry and is written in prose.

Yes, I think we can accept Glory Hole. Not sure we have enough experts for a separate poetry section though.

Hugh wrote: "Yes, I think we can accept Glory Hole. Not sure we have enough experts for a separate poetry section though."

Thanks. I think putting it in with everything else makes sense.

Hugh wrote: "I deliberately left the deadline for nominations open, but I don't want to allow 2023 books so we will have to exclude those (and if the interest is there, we could discuss 2023 books throughout th..."

Oops, by 'current' I didn't mean to imply 2023. I meant 2022.

I’d like to nominate the following 2022 releases:
Bad Girls aka The Queens of Sarmiento Park
Weasels in the Attic
Witches

I read a lot of translations last year, but most were backlist. The same will probably happen this year as I get through a huge stack in anticipation of the Booker International.

Hugh, are Tomb of Sand and Bolla considered 2021 or 2022 for this? I had both in 2021 but I'm sure I was in the minority.

EDIT: Also Elena Knows and Love in the Big City. Just curious what the cut-off date is.

Hugh wrote: "I deliberately left the deadline for nominations open, but I don't want to allow 2023 books so we will have to exclude those (and if the interest is there, we could discuss 2023 books throughout th..."

Hugh - thank you for compiling this list.
If we decide to allow more than two selections I would like to add Stories of the True and Dead-End Memories: Stories

Arun

I have not yet removed the 2021 books from the list but we probably should. I will update the list and add the new nominations tomorrow, and maybe clarify the rules too. I am out tonight so can't update the spreadsheet.

Thanks, Hugh. I'll also nominate Dead Lands.

Debra wrote: "Would Heaven qualify?"

All the Lovers in the Night would qualify, Debra.

I'd like to add the following that I believe qualify (unless there is something I am misunderstanding about the proposal):

Of Saints and Miracles, published in English June 7, 2022 by New Vessel Press


Victorious, published in English Sept 13, 2022 by Restless Books

For me I'd add

Ti amo - published 6 Sep 22 by And Other Stories (UK) and 13 Sep 22 by Archipelago (US) (original language version was 2020)

Is Mother Dead -published 27 Sep 22 by Verso (UK and also US?) (original 2020)

Down With The Poor! - published 7 Jul 22 by Les Fugitives (original 2011). Deep Vellum are publishing in Jan 23 in US.

I would like to add:

Hugs and Cuddles by João Gilberto Noll
Paradais by Fernanda Melchor

I'd like to add The Last One by Fatima Daas

I must request to add one more that I just finished and am enthralled by -- the translation was excellent in my opinion.

The Last Days of Terranova, published in English by Archipelago Books on Oct 11, 2022. (I don't see an earlier translation to English published anywhere. It was originally published in Galician in 2015.)

LindaJ^ wrote: "I'd like to add The Last One by Fatima Daas"

I am updating the list, but that one seems to have an English version dated 2021, so I won't include it.

Looking at the list, one thing that does strike me is the lack of Africans.

Is that a general issue with literature though. As with Indian literature the books written in English get more attention in the literary sphere and publishers (and readers?) “do” Africa that way.

At a quick count the International Booker had managed 6 African books in 8 years out of 104 longlisted.

But would be good to get group thoughts on what we missed this year.

Sadly I am not seeing much in my reading - The Last One, which is on the list but the author is French, and Kibogo which isn’t eligible (2021 book) might be it, and I’ve more in English.

There was The Lost Spell. It didn’t seem to be a hit, though.

We have the Miano. She identifies as Cameroonian although she does live in France I believe.

David wrote: "There was The Lost Spell. It didn’t seem to be a hit, though.

We have the Miano. She identifies as Cameroonian although she does live in France I believe."

Lost Spell was good I thought but I only new about it because, as with several on here, I follow/support Henningham Family Press. Don't think it's had any real traction. We could add it to the list though?

Paul wrote: "Kibogo which isn’t eligible (2021 book) might be it"

Isn't the English translation of Kibogo from 2022? I can't find a 2021 edition but it may be that it has not yet been entered on Goodreads.

Good point - I was confusing it with the book on last year's Republic of Consciousness list.

In that case I'll add it to my nominations though I still have to read it.

I'd like to nominate:
- A Mountain to the North, a Lake to the South, Paths to the West, a River to the East by László Krasznahorkai
- The Famous Magician by César Aira
- Kibogo by Scholastique Mukasonga

Thanks, Hugh, for bumping up the nominations to three for each of us. For my third nomination, I'll go with Mister N.

Vesna wrote: "...I'd like to nominate:...- The Famous Magician by César Aira..."
So glad you listed this. I hadn't realized it was available in English.

Phyllis wrote: "Vesna wrote: "...I'd like to nominate:...- The Famous Magician by César Aira..."
So glad you listed this. I hadn't realized it was available in English."

Happy to see another Aíra fan. New Directions published it last year in their newly launched Story Book series.

Vesna wrote: "Phyllis wrote: "Vesna wrote: "...I'd like to nominate:...- The Famous Magician by César Aira..."
So glad you listed this. I hadn't realized it was available in English."

Happy to see another Aíra ..."

We should start a fan club- I love his books, too.

David wrote: "Thanks, Hugh, for bumping up the nominations to three for each of us. For my third nomination, I'll go with Mister N."

I would nominate Strega, but it is already on the list. Would it be possible to donate my nominations?

Donations sound good, if so I could donate the Vasily Grossman to Hugh as read the ARC last year.

Debra wrote: "I would nominate Strega, but it is already on the list. Would it be possible to donate my nominations?"

A few books that could be interesting to see on the list might include All the Lovers in the Night, Firefly, and Black Village. I have the last two but haven't read them. Wild Horses from Fum d'Estampa and The Monotonous Chaos of Existence from Mason Jar Press might be good additions too.

I'm sure there are other books out there that should be on our radar.

OK, since I still have a couple of spare nominations, I will nominate The Lost Spell, though I haven't read it

David wrote: "Debra wrote: "Would Heaven qualify?"

All the Lovers in the Night would qualify, Debra."

Ok, I will nominate All the Lovers in the Night since I enjoyed Heaven so much. Ahem...halo effect? ;-)

Hugh wrote: "Looking at the list, one thing that does strike me is the lack of Africans."

All Your Children, Scattered might be another one to add to the mix.

David wrote: "Hugh wrote: "Looking at the list, one thing that does strike me is the lack of Africans."

All Your Children, Scattered might be another one to add to the mix."

OK. I'll give that one my last nomination.

We are now past the closing date for nominations, so I think we can regard the list as final now. I will set up a rankings thread shortly for those who are interested.

I am a little surprised (and disappointed in myself perhaps) how relatively few of these I've read given I focus on translated fiction. Looks like 20 out of 47 (if I counted correctly) with a couple more on my (small) to read shelf. Will be interested to see what comes out near the top of the list for other recommendations.

Will be also interesting to see if any appear on the International Booker.

I've got my rankings ready for when the thread goes up - struggle a bit more with the 3 I've read in 2023 to rank them as the ratings are still settling down.

Are we going to be making a list of finalists and winner or running the dynamic rankings as usual?

Paul wrote: "Will be also interesting to see if any appear on the International Booker."

A lot of these might not be eligible for the International Booker.

David wrote: "Are we going to be making a list of finalists and winner or running the dynamic rankings as usual?"

Let's run dynamic rankings and see how that goes, and maybe narrow the field once we see how the tables are looking and how many readers the books have.

These are hard to rank. Of the 17 that I've read, I would consider 14 to be above average, so it feels wrong to give them negative points.

David wrote: "A lot of these might not be eligible for the International Booker."

At a quick look, half are 2023 IB eligible. Others aren't due to pre-may publication / non-fiction / poetry / deceased author / not UK published. I'm surprised it is that high actually. I suspect the list when it comes out may throw up some names that ought to be on here but most of us haven't got to yet.

Absence
All The Lovers in the Night
All Your Children, Scattered
Bad Girls aka The Queens of Sarmiento Park
Chinatown
Cocoon
Dead Lands
Diary of a Void
Down With The Poor
Is Mother Dead
The Lost Spell
Mister N
A Mountain to the North...
Of Saints and Miracles
The Pachinko Parlour
Solo Dance
Still Born
Strega
Thirsty Sea
Ti Amo
Time Shelter
Twilight of Torment (except we suspect Seagull don't enter)
Weasels in the Attic

Notes (more for me):
Call Me Cassandra is on the Listopia but I don't see a UK publisher
December Breeze was UK published but author deceased
Lost Spell I didn't put on Listopia - can't remember why (and suspect it hasn't been entered)

David wrote: "These are hard to rank. Of the 17 that I've read, I would consider 14 to be above average, so it feels wrong to give them negative points."

Yes that is always the issue with the best of lists - you penalise a good book by voting for it. Although that doesn't tend to impact the top positions so much - and there is of course no perfect voting system.