21st Century Literature discussion

This is the spoiler thread for the first part, so please do not mention anything that happens in part II or the later books. I would have liked an earlier break point than two thirds of the way through the book but this is the only one that makes any sense. What were your first impressions? Did you have any problems with the style? How well does Fosse capture the artist's world and the way he sees things? And did you have any other initial thoughts good or bad?

I only read this for the first time in December. I had saved it up until I was on a trip to the west coast of Sweden, close to the border with Norway.
To experience Scandinavia in mid-winter is quite different to other times of the year. I was surprised by the darkness. The slow, imperceptible sun-rise in mid-morning, sun-set in mid-afternoon, and all this helped fit me into the mood for reading this wintery tale where the snow starts to fall.

The style, without punctuation, is odd at first but is quickly adapted to. As you get lost in the events, you forget about the lack of full stops.
As an English reader, the thing that I most struggled with were the character names. Yes, the choices have been made to add to the confusion, but they are unfamiliar in English and this exacerbates the struggle the reader has. Even the genders are not instantly recognisable.

I liked the writing style of this book because it is closest to human psychology, our thoughts are not linear, they go in repeated circles and also there is no notion of separate Times and Spaces in our mind, past , present, future are seamlessly blended with each other. These two elements are prime features of Samuel Beckett’s works, which I admire very much.
I fell into comfort beginning from the first sentence, I didn’t notice that there are no full stops until it was mentioned on the other thread.
The recurring image of a man with brown shoulder bag and long coat, strongly reminded me of another classic book, in which author has used a single image (painting) repeatedly to convey his philosophy of life. That book is masterfully crafted.
I liked the way protagonist expresses his view on art, but its too early for me say more about that.
I think all artists whatever their field is, use their art to express the feelings that are ‘stuck’ in their being and they make compromises with their artistic liberty in order to satiate public demand as well as to survive.

I found I didn't have any trouble just immediately falling into the writing and skating along with the prose. It took me a little bit more effort to adapt to László Krasznahorkai's similar blocks of prose (similar in form, only). It was also surprising how not annoying all the repetitiveness was, I agree with people who have called it meditative. I thought maybe Fosse was intentionally mirroring the intentional repetitiveness of recitations of the liturgies and rosary.

Oh my, this is a gorgeous book in every way. The way it flows, so slowly and gently, but always flowing.

I do not notice the lack of sentences. The rhythm is so hypnotic, yet progressive. It has a “breath” all its own.

I am deeply moved by the pain of both Asle’s. In both, it is so deep, and raw. For the more stoic Asle, it seems at first as if he has himself more together. He has his faith, a faith he is desperately clinging to, almost as if to keep from falling into an abyss of grief and despair.

He seems stoic, but is he? Is he really? As he returns home from the gallery (did he really go there?) he “sees” and “hears” the other Asle’s pain…anesthetized by alcohol and fantasies of suicide. But stoic Asle is anesthetized as well, so disoriented, he has difficulty finding his way home in his fog of memories.

But then he stops the car and “sees” a young couple. We recognize them immediately as memories of himself and his young love Ales. She in purple, and he with the distinctive brown bag. And I remember the intersection, the “cross” he painted. Brown intersecting with purple…and the two colors blend together, like a marriage, and form something new.

But how heartbreaking is the way he deals with his memory of the two of them in the park. First the memories of the prelude to making love…the rocking motion of the swing, then the rocking motion of the seesaw, and finally, the act of physical love itself in the sandbox.

And what does he do? He freezes them in time. And what does he say and describe? He thinks: he must paint them away so that they disappear in some part of himself that he can’t quite describe. Paint them away, dissolve them, perhaps obliterate them?

And then I wonder… who is suffering more? Drunk Asle? Or stoic Asle?

And why does Asle keep thinking he is driving home to his wife and child when his wife has died, but more importantly, it seems that they never even had a child?

I agree with you Paula about the style of writing....in layman's language... it flows like water and i drink like water.... something i feel for Woolf's books.

I can't say anything about the plot before i read Part 2, which i will start tomorrow. The book grows very confusing at the end of Part 1 and has many questions.
But Asle the first's views on art and religion are clear. I agree with him that perfect painting or art doesn't 'shine' like uncut diamond doesn't sparkle.
I couldn't understand the dark light he is trying to capture and sees in living beings, I think that we will know later.

I find it interesting...all of these names that blend together like permutations of each other. And I wonder about Asle I...does he really go anywhere? Or does he live mostly in his head?

Asle I
Asle II
Bjorgvin Asleik
Running errands in Bjorgvin

So, Asleik's first name is the same as the town?

Asle II keeps the picture Bridal Procession on the Hardangerfjord in his wallet, i did not expect that the procession is on boats, in hospital he thinks (delusion) that they are on a boat.

Asle I is from Hardanger, Guro and the Sister (Asleik's) both are embroiders and attached to a fiddler.

Most disturbing fact is how Asle I has access to Asle II life (present , past , future)

Nidhi wrote: "I agree with you Paula about the style of writing....in layman's language... it flows like water and i drink like water.... something i feel for Woolf's books.

I can't say anything about the plot ..."I agree with him that perfect painting or art doesn't 'shine' like uncut diamond doesn't sparkle.

I haven't reached the part where he says that perfect painting or art doesn't shine, like uncut diamond doesn't sparkle.

I'm not sure I agree with that statement. Speaking as an artist, I would say that, perfect art (and of course, there is no such thing as perfection, which is the artist's constant frustration because the artist's vision is always limited by his actual talent) requires taking that uncut diamond, delving into it, merging with it, shaping it and then...yes, it sparkles.

Now not everyone may understand that outcome, that shimmering diamond, but that doesn't take away from its sparkle.

It's hard to describe. But I remember going deeply into myself to explore the music I was trying to make - taking my talent as far as it could go and then expressing it outwards.

Paula wrote: "I find it interesting...all of these names that blend together like permutations of each other. And I wonder about Asle I...does he really go anywhere? Or does he live mostly in his head?."

I certainly had the same question. Is he literally having these visions / memories as he travels, or he he reliving his life, as well as his possible lives, entirely in his head (his deathbed?). The movement in space as well as memory makes me think of the memory palace, or method of loci, where you remember people and events by tying them to particular locations. That he so easily gets lost in an area of the city he know so well argues for everything being entirely remembered / invented.

I think it's interesting that he's not only remaking or visiting his alternative lives, but also those of other people. Especially Åsleik's sister Guro, who lives in a distant town, as well as in Bjørgvin. Unlike Asle, though, she ended up with the same deadbeat musician in both lives. Also interesting that in one life, she seems to know all about Asle, though he can't recall her, and in the other she likely has the largest collection of his paintings anywhere. (Also nice to confirm that deadbeat musicians seem to be a universal...)

Bjorgvin Asleik ... So, Asleik's first name is the same as the town?

I didn't recall this, a search in the book shows two instances of Asle referring to Bjørgvin and then Åsleik, so maybe that is what you saw?

"I say what a painting like that can sell for in Bjørgvin Åsleik says he can’t believe people would pay so much for a painting" and

" I get home from Bjørgvin, Åsleik must have been standing and waiting for me.."

Nidhi wrote: "Asle II keeps the picture Bridal Procession on the Hardangerfjord in his wallet."

Yes, I forgot this point. Asle II has the photo in his wallet from his childhood, and says he never painted it, whereas Asle I's painting of it as a child was his beginning as an artist. So my speculation that there was a moment where the two 'split' is obviously incorrect. The possibilities of the two lives are obviously more amorphous. (I accept the distinct possibility of being proven an idiot when I get the end of the last book.)

There are other interesting things about the painting. Aside from being one of the most well known Norwegian paintings, it depicts a bridal party, and the different wives of the two Asle's is obviously an important difference in their lives. And, more interesting I think, is that it was done by two different painters.

Two different painters? How interesting! I looked it up…thank goodness they don’t have the same name. 🙂

I don’t know what to make of the Asle’s so far. It’s such a hallucinatory experience floating around in Asle I’s thoughts.

Is Asle II a true doppelgänger? Their lives only divided by the life choices they have made? And is this the reason Asle I can “see him” and read his thoughts.

Or is Asle II a product of Asle I’s religious embrace and clinging to his prayers and beads, almost feverishly clung to (emotionally tied to the dead wife I know nothing about yet) - where Asle II is a vision akin to “there but for the grace of God go I”? Which would make it easier to understand why Asle I can see Asle II…because Asle II is a product of Asle I’s mind.

I haven’t gotten very far yet, but wow, this book is amazing.

Paula wrote: "Oh my, this is a gorgeous book in every way. The way it flows, so slowly and gently, but always flowing.

I do not notice the lack of sentences. The rhythm is so hypnotic, yet progressive. It has ..."

Paula wrote: "Oh my, this is a gorgeous book in every way. The way it flows, so slowly and gently, but always flowing.

I do not notice the lack of sentences. The rhythm is so hypnotic, yet progressive. It has ..."

The couple in the park, and his need to paint them, really stood out to me. A beautiful moment, and very tangible.

I agree that the writing is reminiscent of Samuel Beckett's - and it also reminds me of Quentin's section in The Sound and the Fury.

His need to paint them, so that can he can make them disappear into some part of himself, getting his own memories out of his system, so to speak…yes the image of the couple is so beautiful, but the intent is so sad.

Ok, I just sat upright in my reading chair! This is when, after he takes Asle II to the clinic (where they admit him to the Hospital), Asle I worries about the dog Bragi and returns to the Hospital to retrieve the apartment keys. They send The Handyman (so peculiar that there are no names to many of these characters, they are identified by their roles, but always with the role capitalized) with Asle I to enter the apartment and get the dog.

The Handyman seems a curious sort, very chatty, asking Asle I general, making-conversation questions, and this is the exchange that struck me:

Did you work in Bjorgvin? He (The Handyman) says

I went to school here, I say

and I think The Handyman is so inquisitive he’s probably going to ask what kind of school I went to, but if he does I’ll just say something to make him think it was just a normal school,

Ok…??? Interesting!

I just interpreted that as meaning he didn't want to have to field the usual questions about him being an artist. He says at one point how he's tired of everyone always asking him if he can live of off his art.

I just finished Part 1. What a…disorienting experience. Perhaps the swirling snow and darkness, which let’s face it, obliterates landmarks even associated with the most familiar of environments, lend themselves to this almost hallucinogenic, hypnotic reading experience. As to Asle, what can I make of him? He seems autistic, his faith seems to be a series of memorized, oft-recited, almost parroted phrases. What do they really mean to him? Are they, in truth, deeply and spiritually faith-based? Or are they rote talismans, borne of grief, fear, anguish? Or, at the end of the day, is there a difference? In this novel, one does wonder.

Paula wrote: "I just finished Part 1. What a…disorienting experience. Perhaps the swirling snow and darkness, which let’s face it, obliterates landmarks even associated with the most familiar of environments, le..."

I love this observation! Yes the snow and darkness were definitely a huge contributor to the disorientation he, and we, were experiencing. Others have raised the question as the whether this is all in his head - sounds like we need to finish the series to really put things in context.

As far as his recitations being parroted, I'm not a Catholic, but my understanding of the rosary et. al. is that they are supposed to be repetitive. The purpose is be meditative, not inquisitive. I speculated above that perhaps his repetition and reframing of prior events is meant to mirror his recitation of the prayers. Maybe it's a way of coming to peace with his life and tying it in with his faith.

I haven't had much to say about this since I only read this book and am waiting for the remaining audio books in the trilogy before making any assessment. From only reading the first novel the doppelganger theme seemed strong and it will be interesting to see how Fosse resolves or dismisses that theme in the remaining books.

One thing unmentioned is that coincident with the English translation of the septology, Fosse seemed to jump to near the head of the line in Nobel Prize evaluation and discussion. I haven't finished the series so I haven't an opinion, but I enjoy watching how authors rise and fall in estimation and what occurs that may contribute to that rise or fall. Tokarczuk and Earnaux, for example, got "hot," just before they won and I would guess that was partly a consequence. Krasznahorkai, OTOH, also was the talk of critics a short time ago but his flame has lessened and it will be interesting to see how he fares in future Nobel discussions or in actually winning the prize.