The Old Curiosity Club discussion

Dear Curiosities,

Now that we have put Dickens aside for the time being, I have closed The Three Jolly Bargemen and have opened this thread instead to give us this place as an opportunity to talk off-topic or to raise more general questions.

The first round of drinks is on me, and I am going to have a mellow double stout, let's say a Shepherd's Neame.

Thank you for opening up, Tristram. I'll have a Hertog Jan Grand Prestige, because it feels like the right kind of beer to drink while sitting at a fireplace in winter. Meanwhile I'll imagine snow outside (not that there is any around here) and someone smoking a pipe.

I looked the Hertog Jan Grand Prestige up in Google, Jantine, and it looks like a beverage that might be right down my alley. I must say that lately, I have developed a very soft spot for stout beer. When I was in Amsterdam last October, I came across two other beers that I really loved - one of them was called Zatte, with an ostrich on the label, the other was a Belgian beer called La Chouffe. Luckily, La Chouffe is also available here in my hometown.

I have a rich, delicious hot chocolate recipe that would hit the spot right now, but I'm too lazy to make it for myself (goes down smooth with a shot of VO). I wonder if the bartender would go to the trouble....

I'm feeling quite blessed, sitting here in the inglenook chatting with friends, while watching footage of the Syria-Turkey earthquake. How awful.

Mary Lou wrote: "I'm feeling quite blessed, sitting here in the inglenook chatting with friends, while watching footage of the Syria-Turkey earthquake. How awful."

I hadn't heard! I don't seek out the news. How sad, they are my neighbours now. I'll have a comforting green tea.

We talked at the last pub about Barbara Kingsolver's homage to David Copperfield, called Demon Copperhead. Has anyone else picked it up?

It took me about 70 pages to get engrossed, but I got hooked about the time Demon (born Damon) met the Tommy and Steerforth characters. I've just now gotten to his arrival at his grandmother, Betsy Woodall's house, and can't wait to see how Kingsolver handles Mr. Dick, Betsy, and the donkeys.

It's very interesting to read this, being very familiar with the original. I seek out the connections - and they are everywhere. It's very much a straight retelling of Copperfield, even down to similar names. My daughter, who, sadly, has only read A Christmas Carol when she was forced to in high school, would like to read this (she had enjoyed other Kingsolver books), and I look forward to talking about it with someone who has no familiarity with Copperfield.

But I'm enjoying it and give credit to Kingsolver for doing a creditable update. It's a bit more vulgar than Dickens, but (unfortunately) realistically so. And I think she has actually done a better job of writing in a way that helps me empathize with Demon more than I ever did with David. Modern readers can relate to this in a way they can't possibly connect to Victorian London.

I like to think Kingsolver will bring a new audience to Dickens, but I'm afraid new readers will actually credit her with what Dickens originally gave us. By the end of 2024, I'm betting we'll have Johnny Depp or someone being quoted as saying, "If you spend one penny less than you earn every month, you'll be happy. But spend a penny more than you earn, you're done for."

Nice to have a new place to chat and I love a cozy fireplace. I'll have a mulled apple cider.

Tristram wrote: "I looked the Hertog Jan Grand Prestige up in Google, Jantine, and it looks like a beverage that might be right down my alley. I must say that lately, I have developed a very soft spot for stout bee..."

Oh yes, La Chouffe is amazing too!
I like the name of the 'Zatte', basically meaning 'Drunk' (as in: 'de zatte vrouw' = the drunk woman).

Tristram wrote: "I looked the Hertog Jan Grand Prestige up in Google, Jantine, and it looks like a beverage that might be right down my alley. I must say that lately, I have developed a very soft spot for stout bee..."

Oh yes, La Chouffe is amazing too!
I like the name of the 'Zatte', basically meaning 'Drunk' (as in: 'de zatte vrouw' = the drunk woman, and 'hij is ladderzat' = he is very, very drunk).

Jantine wrote: "Tristram wrote: "I looked the Hertog Jan Grand Prestige up in Google, Jantine, and it looks like a beverage that might be right down my alley. I must say that lately, I have developed a very soft s..."

I did not know about the meaning of "zatte". It reminded me of the German word "satt", though.

Some notes about our next group read

As our last poll ended with a tie between Cousin Henry and Wuthering Heights, I think it fair to read the latter novel next. I have divided the book into six parts, which are slightly longer than the ones we read in connection with CH but I remember that the novel has quite a pull effect and makes you want to know what is coming next. In fact we are in for a quite melodramatic yarn.

As I will be the only moderator and therefore must make sure that I won't be on holiday while we are reading the book - I also have some work peaks in which it might be harder to write detailed recaps - I suggest that we start reading after our Easter holidays, which will mean that the first section of chapters can be discussed on 22 April. This also means that there will be no discussions in March - but if I remember correctly, it was our plan to confine our group reads to three or four books, depending on length, a year. As I will certainly be away in the summer holidays, there will be no book discussions here in summer.

Are you okay with my suggestions?

Tristram wrote: "As our last poll ended with a tie between Cousin Henry and Wuthering Heights, I think it fair to read the latter novel next."

It's been many years since I've read Wuthering Heights. I'm excited to read this in a group setting! I'm fine with the dates, as they allow plenty of time for personal reading and participation in other group reads.

I have never read Wuthering Heights. Looking forward to it.

I won't be joining in with Wuthering Heights, but I will eagerly await your final discussion so that I can see what everyone thought of it. Rebel that I am (she said, with her tongue planted firmly in her cheek), I went against the tide with that one, and really disliked it. Knowing that not even this group's insights and analysis will change that for me, I'll put that time to good use trying to empty my personal shelves of some of the dross that's accumulated there. My poor shelves are literally bowing under the weight. But I'll see you all around the fireplace.

You will be missed, Mary Lou, but hopefully, you'll be back on board for our third book after the summer holidays. You, and all the other patrons of the Curiosity Fireside, can think about which books they would like to read and make suggestions here. We can shelve the titles in our library and see how to proceed.

Thanks, Tristram.

As to future offerings, here are some 19th century books by British authors on my shelves that I have yet to read. Of course, there are plenty of other titles I don't own that I'd also love to read. These just happen to be the ones that have ended up in my collection. No wills hiding in any of them... that I know of.

In no particular order:

Jude the Obscure - Hardy
The Moonstone - Collins
North and South - Gaskell
Romola - Eliot
Scenes from a Clerical Life - Eliot
Dracula - Stoker
Eustace Diamonds - Trollope
Orley Farm - Trollope
Lorna Doone - Blackmore
Treasure Island - Stevenson
a whole slew of titles from Kipling
Black Beauty - Sewell

and I've read ...
Alice's Adventures in Wonderland - Carroll
...but would love to read it again! I'm on board for any Victorian children's lit.

I would add to this fine list

Woman in White -- Collins
Middlemarch -- Eliot
A Month in the Country -- Carr
Brothers Karamozov -- Dostoevsky
Persuasion -- Austen
Emma -- Austen
I Capture the Castle -- Smith
The Way We Live Now -- Trollope

I have more

We might keep on collecting some titles for a while before I even stark thinking how to generate a poll out of the numerous suggestions.

I am not sure if I will join in with Wuthering Heights, since I have read it very recently. On the other hand the idea of another read through while discussing it with the people here does have its pull.

I am out for Wuthering Heights for pretty much the same reasons Mary Lou indicated, but I will be curious to see what those of you who voted for it have to say.

Tristram, the suggestions sound good. There are so many good options on those lists--thanks, all!

Mary Lou wrote: "We talked at the last pub about Barbara Kingsolver's homage to David Copperfield, called Demon Copperhead. Has anyone else picked it up?

It took me about 70 pages to get engrossed, but I got hook..."

I'm glad you liked it, as it's on the list for my in-person book club later this year!

Dear Curiosities,

I am going to post the Reading Schedule for Wuthering Heights in a few minutes. If you are interested in joining us, look out for the respective folder. There is still time enough for you to get hold of a copy because we are going to start in late April.

I splurged and bought myself one of those relatively new classic offerings from Barnes and Noble, the ones with the flowery hardcovers. Yeah, flowers -- a dozen roses for me. What I like is the quality to the pages. The book is small but weighs as much as an anchor. I guess I'll be reading it sitting at my desk, book resting on desk. That or I'll read the ebook format so I don't smudge the pages on the hardcover with my sticky fingers.

I know the book edition you are talking about, Xan. They are quite good quality at a reasonable price. The only thing I am missing is some annotations and an introduction. When I was younger, I never bothered to read the introductions in my Penguin or Oxford paperbacks, but nowadays, after finishing the novel and start with the introduction. I have learned it's better to read the intro after the book because sometimes there is a lot of the plot given away.

Tristram wrote: "When I was younger, I nev..."

When you were younger? I'm surprised you can remember back that far. ;-)

Kim wrote: "Tristram wrote: "When I was younger, I nev..."

When you were younger? I'm surprised you can remember back that far. ;-)"

Oh, for most of my reminiscences I stand indebted to people around me who are even older than I :-)

I hope everyone is well. I have been away from my reading. My beloved cat Maverick passed away on March 24th and things have been a struggle. But I am working on feeling better and I have my other cat, Joe Joe, here with me.

I look forward to reading Wuthering Heights with the group. I have never read it. I find the lives of the Brontes to be very interesting. I also find Emily to be such a great, almost underrated, poet. Some of her poems are the best in the language, in my opinion.

I'm sorry to hear about Maverick, John. I'm glad you have Joe Joe there beside you. I read somewhere that Emily Brontë wrote Wuthering Heights while her cat Tiger slept under her feet. Tiger must have been one sleepy cat. :)

Jane wrote: "I'm sorry to hear about Maverick, John. I'm glad you have Joe Joe there beside you. I read somewhere that Emily Brontë wrote Wuthering Heights while her cat Tiger slept under her feet. Tiger must h..."

Thanks Jane. I did not know that about Emily’s cat. I have the book below on my reading list, and actually have it in ebook via Scribd, and would like to get to it soon.

Emily Brontë Reappraised

John wrote: "I have the book below on my reading list, and actually have it in ebook via Scribd, and would like to get to it soon."

That looks like a good one, John. It isn't too long, either. I have The Essence of the Brontës: by Muriel Spark. I haven't started it yet. The book focuses mainly on Emily Bronte (about a third of it is biographical matter on Emily). It also includes letters and some of Emily's poems.

Sorry to hear that, John. Some pets really work their way into your life. We got a new corgi puppy in October, Rosie Cotton, to keep company with our heeler, and I had forgotten how much work a new puppy is to the point where after a month of interrupted sleep I swore no more new puppies ever again. I am sleeping again now, but she was spayed last week so we're presently having to confine her all the time as she's not allowed to run and jump until she's healed. You try keeping an 8-month old puppy from running and jumping! But she has won all our hearts. My husband especially adores her.

(Really looking forward to when she gets out of the constant chewing-and-destruction phase of puppyhood, though. It's lucky she's as cute as she is!)

John wrote: "I hope everyone is well. I have been away from my reading. My beloved cat Maverick passed away in March 24th and things have been a struggle."

I'm sorry to hear about the passing of your Maverick, John. I know how hard that must be for you, and I'm glad that you have Joe Joe to comfort you. My daughter's cat, Charlie, unexpectedly passed away last August 18th while the kids were away at summer camp for the week. We had only had him for 1.5 years at that point, but he had made a firm presence in our family in that short time with his big personality. It was devastating for us all, and it still tears my heart out to think about him after these several months. We do have his brother, Jonesy, still with us so he is a comfort, but they had such different personalities. Those furry little companions sure know how to make a place in our hearts, that's for sure.

So sorry about Maverick. That can really be hard. My last cat was about 17 years ( I think). He was a Russian Blue and my best ever pet. Glad you have another to keep you company, John.

Thanks All for the Good Wishes.

Bobbie wrote: "So sorry about Maverick. That can really be hard. My last cat was about 17 years ( I think). He was a Russian Blue and my best ever pet. Glad you have another to keep you company, John."

Bobbie,

Maverick was considered a Russian Blue Mix. Mostly gray with a little white. He was found injured on a street in Philadelphia. Through the efforts of a Good Samaritan and a cat rescue group, he eventually made his way to me. He was three years old when I adopted him.

Maverick was a very sweet and good natured cat, despite the traumas of his early life. I had him almost ten years. It was not long enough. Tried and tried with doctors. He had surgery last summer for a benign liver tumor. I thought maybe we had passed the worst, but a pancreatic tumor started. He was my soul cat and provided inspiration and comfort.

I am fortunate to have Joe Joe for company.

I'm just now reading about Maverick. I'm very sorry for your loss, John.

Julie, God made babies cute for a reason, whether human, canine, feline, or some other species.

I'm so sorry about your loss of Maverick, John!
(And yes, I know I am late. I hardly look into these forums as much as I did lately)

I found a wonderful Dickens podcast called "Charles Dickens: A Brain on Fire" that I highly recommend, after listening to only two episodes. I don't know how podcasts work, internationally, but this is a link to the first episode, with Lucinda Hawksley, on the platform where I listen.

https://play.stitcher.com/episode/890...

I also listened to the Miriam Margolyes episode. I'd love to have these ladies come to the Curiosity fireplace and just settle in by the hearth some rainy Sunday for a quaff and nice, long chin-wag about our favorite author. Just wonderful.

That does sound fun!

I am about halfway through Demon Copperhead. I have liked Kingsolver for a while but I'm still surprised at how good this book is. I think Dickens's scale gives her permission to go all-out in ways maybe her other books have not.

But it's taking me a long time to read it because even though it's a page-turner I have to keep setting it aside for a couple of days because it's given me nightmares twice. It's alarming how Dickensian the world still is today if you're a kid whose parents aren't much good at helping you out.

Thank you for sharing your lucky find with us, Mary Lou! I hope to have some time in the future to dive in!

Yes. The podcast that Mary Lou refers to is always excellent, insightful and well worth hearing.

Today is Charlotte Bronte’s birthday.

I bought a copy of "Dickens and Staplehurst" by Gerald Dickens as a result of hearing an interview with him on the podcast I mentioned (above). It arrived in the mail today, and I'm delighted to see that it's been signed by the author! Probably the only Dickens autograph I'll ever own. :-)

And while I'm here, there's a show on PBS airing here in the US called, "In the Footsteps of..." which shows places meaningful to significant UK authors. Episode one was Dickens, and I thought it was worthwhile, if you can find it. The other episodes are Austen, the Brontes, and Hardy. I haven't seen those yet.

Hulu offered me three months at $2 a month (with ads). I decided to take the offer so I can watch the new adaptation of Great Expectations. Olivia Colman plays Miss Havisham.

I look forward to hearing your opinion, John.

Mary Lou wrote: "I look forward to hearing your opinion, John."

I definitely will provide one, Mary Lou. I have seen some mixed reaction to it. It probably does take a lot of liberties with the story line, but sometimes a fresh take is fine.

Mary Lou wrote: "I look forward to hearing your opinion, John."

Mary Lou, I have watched one episode so far and I like the show. From a visual perspective, the sets are stunning. It seems to be following the storyline of GE.

Mary Lou wrote: "I look forward to hearing your opinion, John."

Mary Lou, I have been away from my reading lately and must try to catch up. I got behind on Wuthering Heights, unfortunately.

I wanted to let you know I have completed four episodes of Great Expectation on Hulu. Each episode is one hour. Two episodes remain.

I happen to like it. Yes, it is a little strange and may not be to the liking of some. But it is setting itself up as a good mystery. There are things in the story that need answers. Some of it steers to the original story and some parts do not. I like it mainly because I am not sure where things will go and I want to find out. Thus as with any good mystery, this is essential.

Thanks for the review, John. I suppose the trick is to go in assuming that it will veer from the original, and not to expect a faithful adaptation.