Sword & Sorcery: "An earthier sort of fantasy" discussion
General Discussions
>
Beware the "Bookjackers"
date
newest »
newest »
I buy more books than I should online. Although, I don’t think I’ve ever fallen prey to this predatory practice. Primarily because I am such a spend thrift and absolutely will not pay lofty prices for a book. I am patient and will shop around or watch for quite a bit before I normally pull the trigger. More times than I care to remember I have purchased a book for a fair price only to find it much cheaper a short while later, but that is an entirely different matter. While I cannot speak to this practice, I have run across something in the wild that was unsettling, at least to me.
I thrift a lot. You can find real book treasure if you are diligent and patient. I have encountered people with little scanners scanning every book. Curiosity got the best of me one day and so I asked the guy what he was doing. He hesitated, almost like he didn’t want to answer. He told me he was looking for books to sell on Amazon. Somehow the the little widget would tell him which books were in demand or bear high prices on Amazon.
@Richard- Yes, and that 'scanning' shows them a huge jacked up price on amazon (posted by a bookjacker) and then the thrift shop follows suit. Half-Priced Books does this. They sell on the net at the same high prices they find posted by bookjackers. I got around this once with Half-Price by calling the store in MN, asking if they have the book and she verified it was $2.99. This was opposed to that same store selling the same book on the web for $19.99. Furthermore, I'm disappointed by a long standing LGS that is two minutes away from me... He looks up other prices on the internet and then quotes that price to you in store.
I visited a bookstore in Louisiana that did the same thing. When I entered I asked about the pricing. Each book was at least $4 ea. unless specifically marked. When I went to check out the proprietor looked the books up online right then an there. It was a time consuming process and I finally walked out w/o purchasing anything. That was the first and last time I ever stopped in there.
Brian wrote: "@Richard- Yes, and that 'scanning' shows them a huge jacked up price on amazon (posted by a bookjacker) and then the thrift shop follows suit. Half-Priced Books does this. They sell on the net at t..."Thank you for your posts Brian. They're very precise and informative. I knew about half of this info from my own dealings but I feel twice as informed now. You helped fill in the gaps of my understanding and I am making note of sellers to steer clear of. I've barely bought any books lately but that's besides the point. I have been very annoyed by 3rd party sellers on Amazon and feel let down by the bs changes on Abebooks, a site I was on top of years before it became a trendy bookseller site. I luckily found a site that lists multiple booksellers similar to Bookfinder but much better and it's easier to weed out the bad booksellers I want nothing to do with and it also has a system that allows me to be immediately notified/alerted of rare hard-to-come-by books not previously available anywhere or available only at outrageously marked-up prices by the type of sellers you speak of. It's probably not *all that unknown* of a site by this point - I know I provided it to Richard a few years back - but if anybody else wants the site info pm me or friend me and pm me. It's easy to use and helps eliminate a few of the bookjackers and/or booksellers I will never purchase from. I've had several experiences like the ones you detailed. Three instances in particular that in some ways were even worse, where in one case the Canadian "seller" put up an impossible-to-find edition, Amongst the Dead by David Bernstein, they didn't actually have, letting me pay for it and then communicating with me in an upbeat fashion only to try and screw me over when the book never arrived saying the "lost delivery" wasn't their fault. Only for me to see the same book selling on eBay for $850 + shipping a day after the dispute. Which is still listed without any bites since. Luckily I found a copy for less than $20 a year or so ago. I had a similar scenario with a collector's edition of Dweller by Jeff Strand, and although not as rare, a new listing popped up on several sites at slightly different prices a couple days later, with the price jacked up on all of them. Lastly, when purchasing Adventures of Cash Laramie and Gideon Miles Vol. II by Edward A. Grainger aka David Cramer in paperback - one of the very best Western series ever for those of you who enjoy "straight" Westerns, meaning no supernatural or Weird Western elements (like i.e., most of Joe R. Lansdale's Western stuff) - from an Australian seller, who listed it on several sites (eBay, Abebooks, Amazon, and Alibris) and would not take those listings down even after I notified him it never arrived. He might still have it listed on one or more of the sites even after seven or more years have passed and was a dick when trying to get my refund, of which he blamed on delivery to the states. Abebooks sux now. Alibris, which was never as good, same. Amazon 3rd seller info has total lack of details now, even the bookfinder search engine is all but useless now. It sux. But thanks Brian! You rock!
Super Welcome! I've been all over this for a few years now until I just found that article from Zubal Books. I also discovered a hidden tactic for Half-Priced books webstore:
You search there and find no listings. BUT have you tried searching the same book over again for 10 days in a row? Why would you do such a thing if they don't have it? Because there are SLEEPER CELLS that need to be awakened and will be at 10+ days of searches on their website apparently! Because suddenly, after 10 days, they have the book. Whether a list prints out and stores look at stock and then manually list it or whether the listing has gone to sleep due to no interest remains a question, but I believe Bookjackers software is keyed into the sleeper-unseen listings. I have 'awakened' HPB listings about 3 times now doing that. However, the new problem arises when, yes, they list the book but for $60. Sometimes though, one can call the store (imagine that!), don't mention you see it on the web and simply ask if they have a book you're looking for. Many times you'll get quoted a much lower price. Sometimes, though the associate is 'on their feet' and knows/sees it is an internet listing and quotes the same high price. That happened to me with White Wolf Pub Count Brass hardcover. I called but got quoted same with that one. In another case, I saved $17 calling a store for a Ravenloft paperback vs their online listing.
Nice! I'm aware of sleeper cells. Honestly, Bookfinder has that same problem. Until recently I was checking for my Top Ten+ Most Wanted at least once a day for years on numerous sites. By doing so I was able to find some books that were disappearing or flicker in and out. I think that's how I obtained a copy of The Servant of the Manthycore by Michael Ehart though I haven't added it on GR yet because it's the one book I left in TX. "Dammit Janet!"
*UpdateHA! I just avoided Bookjacker "Zuber" on Ebay.
There were 3 listings for a hardcover I want
$49.02 "Spine is cracked"
$49.37 Siliconvalley books "Used Good. No tears, creases. Great Shape"
$89.75 Zuber "VG Condition! Great!"
I 'watched' the $89.75. Also to note, "this seller cannot be contacted" Google zuber ebay seller and complaints exist.
Funny thing, when I pulled up the one for $49.37, red lettering across the top of the page said "You are currently watching this item" UM... NO. I flagged the expensive one to watch.... now why would it say such a thing when I pulled up a totally different listing for half as much??? Hmmm?
I then purchased that one for $49.37. It took two days to be marked as "Shipped" and now Zuber's book for $89.75 "is no longer available"
Bookjacker Zuber Avoided.
Brian wrote: "*UpdateHA! I just avoided Bookjacker "Zuber" on Ebay.
There were 3 listings for a hardcover I want
$49.02 "Spine is cracked"
$49.37 Siliconvalley books "Used Good. No tears, creases. Great Shape..."
That's sad. And sad that it can be termed 'typical' in this day and age. Someone needs to create a program that blocks or makes note of the book villains so book buying can go back to the fun thing it was 8 years ago and back.
Sorry that happened but sounds like you got what you wanted bookwise. At least you didn't get suckered into the double-priced copy!
I really should have taken a screenshot of Abe listings too before I made the purchase. I probably 'killed' multiple high listings there as well and it would have shown the identity of more bookjackers. No listings existed on Amazon. None at HPB either. Again, it's important to note that you might see 20 listings for a book out there and in reality, only one or two books exist for sale and the rest are all piggybacker bookjackers.You could literally 'sell books' if you were locked in a prison cell. Your golem software does it all. You need no inventory whatsoever. It's all drop-shipped from the guy who actually has the book so ya don't even need to go to the post office or have boxes to ship etc. Money is auto deposited into your prison bank account and you can continue to live off moon pies and suzieQ's.
Thank you to all for this discussion. It just seems their should be more honor among us book nuts.I too have been annoyed at the folks with the scanners at library book sales - usually they pull whole sections and retreat to a corner glaring at people who get near and leave the books unsorted after they have pulled the potential profit makers. I don't mind if those folks come in after the reading public has a chance to have a go at the sale - the library needs the money after all - but these folks are incredibly rude.
I'm going to keep beating this dead horse so that this sticks with all who read this thread. Searching for another book in the series. OF COURSE it's the same bunch of garbage listings. One beat up library book being sold for every number under the sun.
Funny thing. I find a listing on Amazon from Dorian's Books in France! I felt maybe I was getting away from the thieves and getting into an actual book seller. WRONG. They had the book for $50 listed as "Used Good". This condition is used by the millions and can mean everything from a beat-to-hell library book to actually a Very Good used book. So I sent a message to the "bookseller" asking to verify the condition of the book. I asked if it had any rips or if it was a library book. All I get back is the following:
"Hello,
Thank you for your interest in our product.
Please note that you can use this link to know about the condition of any book/item :
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/h...
Generally the condition is according to the description on the website.
I hope you find this information useful.
I wish you a good day.
Best regards,
Dorian."
What a freakin joke. Again, looking further, complaints exist such as "Drop shipper". Yeah, that's a bookjacker. HE DOESNT HAVE THE BOOK. He cannot even tell me if it's a library book or not. And the 'condition description' is the same used for all their books
And furthermore, it's listed as Free Shipping! OH, right. Free from France to USA ?? sure thing. NO, he's drop shipping from an American bookjacker who offers free shipping.
Here's my Big Question: What is Jeff Bezos/Amazon's real Net Worth when over 75% of their 'inventory/assets' are just fake and the inventory does NOT exist to back their net worth whatsoever? Jeff claims to have $1000 in books. But when you buy one for $20, all of a sudden, that thousand dollars of various listings is then gone. Therefore, Jeff did NOT have assets equal to the thousand dollars of books. Amazon themselves even offered the same book at $75. Looked closer and it is Used Library book. So Amazon is a bookjacker too.
And now the price on an Abe listing has increased $20 after trying to ask them a question about the book and getting a robot reply. Utter madness.
When we, as an actual bookshop, first joined Abebooks about twenty years ago it was a different organisation. You had to prove to them that you could describe books properly using the terminology appropriate to a legitimate bookseller. Since then Abe's passed through several hands and now belongs to amazon. Even before then, though, there was a big scandal (as far as established booksellers were concerned) when Abe's newest owners allowed what everyone dismissed as "megasellers" with their meaningless book descriptions to join. It's been downhill ever since. In its earlier days booksellers would offer each other "bookseller's discounts" but that's a thing of the past. Real booksellers are few and far between.
Things like bookjacking are on the rise due to the “Gig” Economy we are part of. Since the pandemic, people have been asking “where did all the people go? Why is there no one to sell me tacos at Taco Bell?”. The people are still there, but being set down during the pandemic, they turned to the Gig Economy. In a Gig Economy, you don’t work for establishments, you work Gigs For yourself. Most found they were making just as much profit as before, and they essentially work for themselves, so they are sticking with it. Most of it’s legitimate: Uber, Door Dash, Etsy, etc.. but some of it is not, Bookjacking being the example on display here. I’m sure Bookjackers justify it by saying “It’s the same as flipping anything”. We feel it more keenly because they are messing with our passions.
David wrote: "When we, as an actual bookshop, first joined Abebooks about twenty years ago it was a different organisation. You had to prove to them that you could describe books properly using the terminology a..."Great info David, thanks!
Clint wrote: "Things like bookjacking are on the rise due to the “Gig” Economy we are part of. Since the pandemic, people have been asking “where did all the people go? Why is there no one to sell me tacos at Ta..."Strange, Clint, that you would mention Taco Bell. My best friend, Jason, a few months ago went into a Taco Bell and all the employees were careless and made the worst food experience Jason ever had there or at any Taco Bell. He made several of the same points you made here. I'm looking forward to showing him your message tomorrow. He's gonna trip! You're spot on with your observations.
Use Your Telephone.Sounds old fashioned, I know but here is my latest:
Searching for my next book, I saw the listing for HPB-Ruby with my book in question for $120.00 listed on Amazon.
I decided to call them on the phone to see if this is “Really” their price since I have learned that internet prices do not necessarily reflect reality. HPB-Ruby in Dallas happens to be a very large and original Half Priced Books corporate location. The call was friendly. The associate looked on their computer first and replied “let me go see if I can find the book but it looks like we have it”. She came back to exclaim they don’t! She checked a second location (which I figured would reveal it was sat aside due to the high price) but verified again that they do not have the book. Being helpful in nature, she told me that it looks like Cedar Rapids Iowa has the book “but I have to tell you that it’s a $75 book” Oh? Sounds better than $120!. So I called Cedar Rapids and yes, they have the book and she tells me proudly “and it’s in excellent condition!”. So for a moment I acted like the price was still a bit high even though I was very happy with this and she quickly told me it’s actually marked down from $150 just a day ago. I was happy to purchase and they sent it to me over the phone.
Nowhere on the internet was THIS book listed (for $75 anyhow). It’s possible that HPB Ruby Dallas was attempting to sell this one on the web for $120 but I’m not sure about that and I would not classify that as bookjacking anyhow since the corporate office can probably do so with books in their inventory at a different store.
Now, here is where things get fun. How many of you have gone back to search for the same book after you make the purchase? Why would ya if you just got the book?
Well, dear friends, if you want to watch the dark sorcery of the golem-controlled-rip-off-software do it’s fell work then give it a try for a number of days thereafter!
Below is a listing of Abe and Amazon listings for the book I bought and then what happened to those listings AFTER I purchased it from Iowa but kept -searching for it- thereby making the golems think I was still looking.
The First Price listed is Before I Bought. The prices afterwards are basically a couple days later up through today.
Books Unplugged $123.93 then changed to $37.68 days later and is now $256.54
Second Sale $123.94 then changed to $104.70 days later and is now $100.36
HPB Ruby- $120.00 *Called/ Did Not Have* Listing GONE day later
Low Key Books- $149.63. GONE After I made my purchase at HPB. CLEARLY BOOKJACKING OFF HPB
Save With Sam- $350 then changed to $300 and is now back to $350
Golden Wave Books- $445.37 then changed to $341.77, now at $445.37
Campbell Bookstore- $455.41 then changed to $343.77 now $1372.62 <---- You Read That Right. Put a cap on your golem, sir!
Golden Dragon Books- $455.48 then changed to $338.75 now $346.89
Wizard Books- new listings $253.05
(6 Days Later, a bunch of new wackos!):
Hafa Adai Books $253.51 and now $504.44
Front Cover books $255.03 now $355.79
Irish Booksellers $37.69 On Amazon all of a sudden
Aydeke (amazon) 99.99 then changed to 95.99
5-Star $119.98 *Verified real listing due to real description and returned email*
Glen The Bookseller(amazon) $119.93 now changed to $96.77
Family Kiss (amazon) $24.99 LOL
So you can see this is clearly both a digital joke as well as a digital poke. Spurious churnings of Tinker Gnomes maybe?
For anybody who claims “I do that on Abe to keep a place-holder”, I say you are full of bullsheet. Why would a ‘place-holder’ change daily and drastically. It’s not a place holder at all, It’s RIPOFF SOFTWARE and Absolute Deception. They are all playing off each other and none of the crooks have put a cap on their golem's head so the prices just keep going ad Infinium.
Brian wrote: "Use Your Telephone.Sounds old fashioned, I know but here is my latest:
Searching for my next book, I saw the listing for HPB-Ruby with my book in question for $120.00 listed on Amazon.
I decided..."
Holy F!
I can keep jacking the price straight up to Uranus simply by continuing to search for the book. Showing interest puts the wraiths-in-the-machine into an apparent feeding frenzy like dumping so much chum into kraken infested waters. And again, there are probably just 3 physical books out there at this time. The brand new listings are simply new krakens coming onto the scene because they smell blood. Not because they have the book at all. When searching for a used book, have your swords drawn and your mind straight because you'll be fighting 85% illusions. The thieves are thick so keep a gauntleted hand on your coin purse at all times.
@Brian Sounds like the makings of a short story.
Million thanks for this thread, this shocking & invaluable WORK! To Brian as well as contributions by Richard and Michael Fierce. Because of this exposé, pretty sure I turned up another to add to your original AVOID list (it & its AKA are included in your chronicle of price-switching): SecondSale / Glenthebookseller So, I was saved from predation, found a ream of complaints on Yelp (only 30, but 30 in absolute accord) and added my own: https://www.yelp.com/biz/secondsale-m...Thanks so much for this thread, guys! GoodReading to all!
Sword & Sorcery: "An earthier sort of fantasy"
Books mentioned in this topic
The Servant of the Manthycore (other topics)Amongst the Dead (other topics)
Dweller (other topics)
Adventures of Cash Laramie and Gideon Miles Vol. II (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Michael Ehart (other topics)David Bernstein (other topics)
Jeff Strand (other topics)
Edward A. Grainger (other topics)
David Cramer (other topics)
More...
A Copy & Paste from Zubal books website explains exactly this:
Zubal Books Advises buyers to NEVER Purchase From Bookjackers
Bookjackers: Who they are, what they do, and why YOU should NEVER purchase from them.
We've been selling books online since about 1995. Over the years we've seen many changes in our own company as well as at sites like Abebooks.com, Amazon.com, and Alibris. One of the worst developments has been the rise of the BOOKJACKERS.
Who is a bookjacker? A more appropriate question may be what is a bookjacker. From what we've been able to piece together, there are about 40 "sellers" on Abe & Amazon (we don't really bother looking at Alibris and Half.com all that much) that do not own any of their own stock, but simply hijack other legitimate booksellers' listings from other websites and then post the listings with inflated prices. The availability of APIs (http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/A/API.html) from Abe, Half.com and (especially) Amazon have made it very easy for people with computer programming skill to become bookjackers and pull the wool over unsuspecting consumers' collective eyes.
Here's how it works. A legitimate seller is selling a book on Half.com. Perhaps he's offering the ONLY copy on Half.com and coincidentally, there are no copies available on Amazon. The bookjacker, by way of his advanced software, is able to quickly detect the presence of this title on Half.com, it's ABSENCE on Amazon.com, and then upload his own offer for this title at Amazon.com at an inflated price. What then follows is that most of the other bookjackers quickly follow suit and you have a marketplace that looks like this:
At 10 a.m. on Monday morning:
Book A becomes available on Half.com by a legitimate seller for $25
Book A is currently not available on Amazon.com
Shortly thereafter bookjacker software detects the book on Half.com and quickly posts it to Amazon.com. So a few hours later the Marketplace on Amazon looks like:
Bookjacker1, $89.95
Bookjacker2, $89.99
Bookjacker3, $91.11
Bookjacker4, $95.50
etc.
The same scenario happens with books that appear on Amazon.com by legitimate sellers and not on Abe as well as the other way around. It pretty much occurs with all online book selling sites.
Why is bookjacking not to be encouraged or tolerated?
Bookjacking is inherently deceptive, manipulative, and confusing to the consumer. What appears to be a common book at a very high price is actually an uncommon book whose price has been greatly inflated so the bookjacker can make a profit and whose single listing has been reposted repeatedly by other 'jackers.
What can you do to stop bookjacking?
The best thing to do is NEVER purchase from a bookjacker. 99% of the time when you see a listing by a bookjacker, that very same book can be found for AT LEAST 50% less expensive at another site (a foreign Amazon site perhaps, half.com, abe, alibis, etc..).
How can you identify a bookjacker?
A dead giveaway that the listing you're seeing is from a bookjacker is that they'll have generic descriptions for their books like:
"Good overall with moderate wear; Has dust jacket if published with one, which MAY contain tears/rubbing;" (caps are ours).
"This is an ex-library book that MAY have library markings and attachments and normal wear"
"Good condition"
"Very Good condition! Huge seller with millions of transactions! Satisfaction Guaranteed!"
and so on.
To help save you some time, we've compiled a list of bookjackers:
AA7Days
academic_book_guy
ADONAI BOOKS
amazon college books
Amctj
anstinbooks
Any Book
Any_Book
betterbooks2009
Best-Book-Depot
BookGroveMedia
-Book Bargains-
Book Deals
Book Garden
Book Smart
Book Surplus
Booked Again
Books_Care
BooksRunner
BookSleuth
breakprice
BRILANTI BOOKS
Brooke Books
Castle Rock
Cloud 9 Books
Cold Books
Colibris
CONTINENTAL MEDIA & BEYOND
Crashing Rocks
DailyDeal USA
Diafan Media
Dorians Books (France)
East West Academic Books
Elitedigital
ExtremelyReliable
ergodebooks
fast-track-books
FishandSave
forest_of_wisdom
Funny Precious
GlassFrogBooks
Gray Fox USA
International Books
Irish Booksellers
jason_kurt
joypros
kefalonitis
katesutter
kime_enterprises
KingsRidgeMedia
lana's Shop
lance books
Land of Magazines
Lost Books
LowKeyBooks
Lucky's Fulfillment
melisasandy
metropole_press
Migna Book Store
Murray Media
MyGrandmasGoodies
myrockland
_nearfine_
nearfine-us
NOHINSA BOOKS
nuggetbooks33
OTTAPLACKAL BOOKS
Park Place Products
planet_books
Pop's Shop Online
price break
profnath
Quality7
relationship
sbd
shopbychoice
soundtrack
southlandplace
Strait City Trading
Summit Read
SunnyDeer Sales
Sunshine & Firefly Canada
Successful New
the_book_community
thebookgrove
TOTAL BOOKS
Tradingcenter
TSCBOOKS
Twin City Rarities
Vault Media
UCAEDU70
US_Bookseller
Vault Media
Woody's Books
worldreaders
Wisepenny Books
Zuber (on Ebay) I just edited to add this one / see my story below
Hopefully, one day, Amazon, Abe (who's owned by Amazon!) and other sites will outlaw bookjackers and clean up their marketplaces. In the meantime, the best thing that we can all do is find the REAL listing of the book that we want and purchase it directly from a REAL bookseller. Do not feed the bookjackers!
Additional Resources About Bookjacking
The Betsy Thoughtless Stockmarket
Bookjacking is a real thing, a real sh;tty thing
Amazon’s $23,698,655.93 book about flies
How rich do you think this eBay user is?