The Sword and Laser discussion

This book is packed with references to fairytale and folklore, many (even most, possibly all) clever subversions of what we’ve come to expect. There’s the marriage to a prince that isn’t exactly happy-ever-after, the fairy godmothers (I found the gradual reveal that (view spoiler)[ Agnes could be an excellent wicked fairy godmother if she wanted to (hide spoiler)] especially effective) and even the character of Fenris, who is both the wolf and the woodcutter (as in, he’s (view spoiler)[ dangerous and his name is definitely wolfy, but he’s also honourable and literally chops wood. (hide spoiler)].

What fairytale subversions did y’all spot? What was your favourite?

Fenris is the most obvious example of Kingfisher dealing with the duality of mankind, the Jungian thing. (Name that movie!) He is (view spoiler)[both the wolf and the woodsman from Little Red Riding Hood. (hide spoiler)] There are two wolves inside us and we can choose which to feed. We see this explicitly with Agnes and several secondary characters.

I hadn’t really thought about the Pratchett parallels before listening to the latest podcast, but there’s definitely a similarity between Agnes and Granny Weatherwax (there’s a bit of similarity between Granny and the Dustwife too).

I'm not certain this fits, but I keep thinking about Marra (view spoiler)[ completing the dust-wife's impossible tasks. Is she able to just because she doesn't know they're impossible? Is the "impossible" designation a bit of hubris on the dust-wife's part? (hide spoiler)] I'm sure I've seen this before but can't recall where?

I liked the bit where Marra wishes she could be a traditional hero, but the dust-wife contradicts her, reasoning that too many people (especially old ladies) tend to get hurt when a real hero is involved. A reminder that fairy tales are best when they're tales and not real life.

Ruth wrote: "I hadn’t really thought about the Pratchett parallels before listening to the latest podcast, but there’s definitely a similarity between Agnes and Granny Weatherwax (there’s a bit of similarity be..."

I don't know, but I did keep thinking about the power of 3 and literature. 3 wishes, 3 ghosts, 3 impossible tasks...

PS: It's like 2 isn't enough and 4 is just too many.

I'm gonna need some time to think about this, because I feel like just about everything in this book is a subversion of fairy tale tropes. Just going for one right now, looking at the ending from "standard" fairy tale tellings, Our Heroes are the villains. (view spoiler)[An evil godmother bursts in after arranging the death of the previous one. She curses the child, then the party distract the guards with necromancy (bone dog's explosion) and kill the King. Agnes could easily be Maleficent. Soooo what other fairy tales are only "good" from the POV of the tellers? (hide spoiler)]

Calvey wrote: "PS: It's like 2 isn't enough and 4 is just too many.
..."

5 is right out.

John (Taloni) wrote: "I'm gonna need some time to think about this, because I feel like just about everything in this book is a subversion of fairy tale tropes. Just going for one right now, looking at the ending from "..."

You just blew my mind

Like the late Sir Terry Pratchett book, the Carpet People and Wee Free Men. Also the A Blink of the Screen is a 2012 short fiction anthology .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Blink...

and include the J. R.R. Tolkien book, On Fairy-Stories
Essay Dec. 4, 1947.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Fair...

Rick wrote: "Calvey wrote: "PS: It's like 2 isn't enough and 4 is just too many.
..."

5 is right out."
😆

The nettle task is straight out of The Wild Swans, except in that tale, she made the cloaks to transform her brothers from swans to back to people, whereas here, she takes the cloak herself and transforms into someone capable of rescuing her sister.

I don't know, but I did keep thinking about the power of 3 and literature. 3 wishes, 3 ghosts, 3 impossible tasks...

I quite liked that the dust-wife was essentially "Ok, you already did 2 impossible tasks, I'm gonna give you a softball for the third because you made it this far." It just kind of invokes that power of 3 and then dismisses it.

Well, the curse-child seems very much like a dark reflection of Pinocchio

Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth wrote: "The nettle task is straight out of The Wild Swans, except in that tale, she made the cloaks to transform her brothers from swans to back to people, whereas here, she takes the cloak herself and tra..."

I like this!

Calvey wrote: "I don't know, but I did keep thinking about the power of 3 and literature. 3 wishes, 3 ghosts, 3 impossible tasks...
PS: It's like 2 isn't enough and 4 is just too many."

Rick wrote:"...5 is right out."

John (Taloni) wrote: "I'm gonna need some time to think about this, because I feel like just about everything in this book is a subversion of fairy tale tropes..."

I think you're right. Also, in another thread, Ruth described the book and coined the term "GrimCosy" (or "GrimCozy for us Yanks)... Maybe the "Cozy" in "GrimCozy" is the result of all the tropes being familiar. But the "Grim" is because all the familiar tropes here are all thrown on their heads"...

What I recognized when listening to the podcast: Marra not "realizing" the impossible tasks are impossible could be a reference to "The Story of the Youth Who Went Forth to Learn What Fear Was" where a young (naive) man fulfills some horrible tasks because he doesn't really understand what he should be afraid of (like sleeping below the gallows with a hanged man).

Maybe it should be Grimmcosy.