Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

This is a Buddy Read for Night and Silence by Seanan McGuire starting December 5, 2023.


Happy Reading!

Shorts to read after Night and Silence

--Suffer a Sea-Change--Available on text editions of Night and Silence
--The Ambitious Ocean--
--And Thrice Again--
--Of Strange Oaths--
--Sun Sets Weeping--
--Dreams and Sighs--

These shorts are available from Seanan's Patreon: https://seananmcguire.com/tobyshorts.php
I think for as little as $1/month (She charges per short story posted, but only posts shorts once a month I think)

Emily, I just want to thank you for taking on the Shorties Organization task--it's no small feat! Thank you!

Thanks Nirkatze! 😊

I finally looked through all the posts... I was worried you missed a bunch, because so few were listed until book 10... then the onslaught starts :D

About 6 per book... it's pretty hit or miss, whether or not the extra short story gets recorded on audio... the most egregious exclusion is the reception one, that felt like a much-needed 2nd epilogue...

I really only remember one short actually being recorded for a book. I think from Raj's POV on #13...

Started my re-read...

Watching Danny like a hawk, after reading that reddit theory post :D

Timelord Iain wrote: "Started my re-read...

Watching Danny like a hawk, after reading that reddit theory post :D"

Which post??

Tonari no Emily wrote: "Timelord Iain wrote: "Started my re-read...

Watching Danny like a hawk, after reading that reddit theory post :D"

Which post??"

THIS IS A DANGEROUS LINK FOR ANYONE NOT CAUGHT UP ON THE SERIES... spoilers abound, without spoiler tags, on reddit...

https://www.reddit.com/r/SeananMcGuir...

Thank you for that warning! I'll be here next weekend, I hope.

The guide I've been following also just has Suffer a Sea-Change to read after this book...

If you haven't read Of Things Unknown or read Nirkatze's summary in the last thread I'd recommend before reading this...

Timelord Iain wrote: "Tonari no Emily wrote: "Timelord Iain wrote: "Started my re-read...

Watching Danny like a hawk, after reading that reddit theory post :D"

Which post??"

THIS IS A DANGEROUS LINK FOR ANYONE NOT CA..."

Ooooohhhhh now that is interesting. (view spoiler)[ I don't know why I've never questioned the favor Toby did for Danny's mysterious sister whom we've actually NEVER met have we? That's so FISHY lol
I still don't think I've seen any clues as to what it means... But there has to be something there! (hide spoiler)]

Finished my reread allll to quickly. I just always gobble these up because they're my fave. Honestly after we get to the end of this reread I might do a serious binge all in a row to see if it helps me catch anything I've missed lol
(view spoiler)[ Poor Tybalt! It's always so shitty that when someone is hurting it's all too easy to hurt the ones you love as well by pushing them away. I'm just glad Toby was the patient one here.

Things are really starting to escalate now! Another reveal of a person in hiding... More info on what broke Maeve's ride and what sparked the retreat of faerie/the three

This time around I was super suspicious with Marcia and the cinnamon rolls... I don't know if that covered up Dugan's magic or not, but Toby's mind didn't even go there... 🤔 (hide spoiler)]

I skimmed right past the cinnamon roll part...

lol I dunno, any time I see (view spoiler)[ Marcia on screen I try to pay extra attention (hide spoiler)]

Made it by the weekend! Starting--just in Chapter 1, but already thinking thoughts, and watching Danny re: Iain's post (I did not look at the reddit)...

List of people to watch like hawks: Marcia, Stacy, now Danny... probably should just add everyone to this list to be safe...

Anyway, chapter 1: (view spoiler)[The chapter image is the rose again! Same as book 1, and very similar to the previous book (Brightest Fell) though that one was inverse in a pool of blood.

So... maybe this is when we deal with either Simon or Evening?

Also, just kind of finding it amusing that Toby usually spends the first few pages of a new book in semi-fourth-wall-breaking explanations... and that the explanation is about how bad it would be if the human world found out about faeries... and yet here is Toby tell us humans about faeries... lol.

Danny thoughts... you know, we're always getting mention of Toby helping out his sister... looked back in #1, and all he says is "you helped my baby sister outta a tight spot 'bout seventeen years ago..." So, who is his baby sister? What case was that? Toby never stops to ask about how his sister is now, who she is etc. We actually know very little about Toby's knight or PI work before she was en-carp-ed.

Love this back-and-forth:
“You’re a Troll, Danny,” I said flatly. “You’ve always lived in a weird world of monsters and shit.”
“Yeah, but before you, they were always paying customers.”

Also: awwvww! Fairy piglets! More for Danny's menagerie! I hope they come to love him like the barghests and actually do give good luck to the ones they love. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 2 (view spoiler)[Oh cool, we actually get to meet Nolan! His waking-up was in one of the shorts, btw, if folks didn't see it... And his manners are still stuck in a non-Politically Correct era...

Kinda bummed Danny doesn't get to keep one of the flying pigs... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 3 Okay, now we're getting to the actual conflict... (view spoiler)[Gillian's back! Starting to wonder if the Rose might just be Toby, or Toby's family, and not Evening... though Evening could be involved.

Makes me wonder if Gillian was taken because she's the only other Dochas Sidhe descendant... or specifically to get at Toby, in which case, start tallying all the enemies she's left in her wake...

Wasn't there some conversation at some point about how even hope chest/Dochas Sidhe blood manipulation left traces in the blood?

May's feelings of motherhood toward Gillian... I like that McGuire is leaning into that at least a little. It reminds me of a Doctor Who episode where these flesh clones were being made to work in mines so if they had the originals if people died... and they revolted... and they were trying to find a peace, but of course the clones remembered being the originals, and their families too, and how do you explain or split that time? Very heartstring-tugging. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 5--(view spoiler)[I like the return of marshwater charms... a cool aspect of Faerie that has been mostly ignored since Toby got more fae-buff... And the conversation about how she'd burn them up if she tried now is not uncommon in magic-books... what were we reading recently where we compared it to Jaenelle in Black Jewels? Too much power = can't do delicate work... Also very curious about Merlins now, since they don't seem to follow any sort of rules?

I hope we get more of Gillian this book than just a save at the end, like last time... she and Toby need to have a proper heart-to-heart. Then maybe she can take that practice and have it out with Tybalt.

Jocelyn is both annoying and somewhat scary. How far would a girl like that go to play out her fantasies? Could she have been the "in" for whomever kidnapped Gillian, in hopes that it would draw out her mother? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 6 (view spoiler)[Oh sh*t! Baba Yaga! This'd better come back! And how is no one mentioning this?

And Jocelyn is totally suspicious. Especially if she put the clothes here. Another "something more" hiding as something thin-blooded? They should torture her under a truth spell. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 7 (view spoiler)[Oh good, they are talking about it.

A house that looks decrepit on the outside but is nice on the inside? Sounds very Luideag. Another First, or something older? Who is Baba Yaga in this world? And if we're talking of Oberon, I start wondering about his ladies... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 8 (view spoiler)[I don't get it. Why are pigs flying? I mean, pigs already flew in chapter 1, with the new creatures. And I don't get what this could be referring to, something people thought Toby would never do but is doing? They're going to see Walther. (hide spoiler)]

Also did an ebook search for keyword "cinnamon"... (view spoiler)[Book 1, Manuel (Dare's brother) smells of Cinnamon. He died to Oleander, right?

Dugan Harrow, lackey of the Nameless Queen, smells of cinnamon and cardamon. And he was around when Manuel was hanging out with Raysel... that's two cinnamon sticks in one Nameless Queen bundle. In One Salt Sea--Marcia also identified him by his scent. Last we hear of him, he was being "taken away" for his part in kidnapping the Lorden kids and trying to start a war... possibly part of Raysel being Elf-shot with a tincture laced with poison (a tactic also used on Nolan), and Toby was thinking that he was "the Queen's problem" now. Well. If she didn't kill him, then he could be back causing trouble again... and maybe the Queen is awake too, and helping. She certainly has enough reason to want to make Toby pay...

Book 10, probably unrelated, but Tybalt brings Toby cinnamon buns in bed--still warm even though being brought by Shadow Roads.

Book 11--when Luideag opens the Babylon road to August, the fog smells of blood and ash and cinnamon. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 9--(view spoiler)[Another forgotten place hidden strongly. Another hideaway of a First? If so, y'all weren't kidding about how many there are in the Bay Area. Something else?

Eh, feeling like research is vindicated. Nameless Queen Was Here.

And we found Gillian already. Or did we? Catch? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 10 (view spoiler)[Catch! Trap! And Tybalt! A bit of a convenient deus ex machina there.

Also... more scary evidence that drinking Toby Blood can heal most anything... and apparently she's a buffet to specific kinds of Fae? (hide spoiler)]

You’re getting close

Yay, close!

Chapter 11-12 (view spoiler)[So, Marcia just happens to be baking cinnamon rolls. That's not suspicious at all.

But the suspicious tints negative toward Marcia. She's a little too surrounded by coincidences though. I don't want to think that Marcia is some sort of criminal mastermind who would leave cinnamon traces around when kidnapping children. But maybe she has some sort of psychic pickup, like Karen? Maybe she senses that the cinnamon smell is a clue, is what Toby needs, and was baking rolls because she knew they would be coming, and wanted to subtly put them on the right track. I'm going with that bit of conspiracy.

Really like the conversation Tybalt had with Toby & Quentin. He's not making the Toby mistake of bottling everything up and trying to solo it--he was staying away because he thought Toby wouldn't want him around (which was dumb) but he finally asked (which was smarter) and is now explaining and talking (which is the first step).

Also thought the comment on "please don't talking about fixing me, I'm a cat" was hilarious.

The blood-drinking monster--um... B-Sith, we're going with that... is running around with a ton of Toby's blood... and she isn't warning everyone she knows that there is something that can look like her running around? Though I guess the B-Sith isn't that smart, so it's unlikely to say, show up at Cliff's house to try to eat them... I hope...

If the other place she "gave away" is the Nameless Queen's knowe, that would be another connection to that ass-hat...

Well, damn... I was thinking Miranda was looking pretty suspicious and extremely hostile, but I wasn't expecting her to be Toby's grandmother! I was starting to wonder though--kind of like how we've never really learned about Danny's sister, whether someone stepping into Gillian's life was entirely coincidental... I'm just glad that it's not another string-pulling by some secret puppet-master... or is it?

And it is Janet! Janet of Tammerlane! Janet who stopped the Ride, defied a faery queen and took her love! Hah! I wonder if Toby will do a confused "wait, grandma of dad? but how alive?" before she realizes she's talking about Amy's mom... (hide spoiler)]

Okay, also--(view spoiler)[Grandma taking up with granddaughter's lover is rather ick. Ew. (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze wrote: "Yay, close!.."

Emily noted the cinnamon rolls this time, too... never noticed before...

And yea... that was what kinda gutted me, back in book 3, when you just pulled the Ballad of Tam Lin out of your mythological hat...

Nirkatze wrote: "Okay, also--[spoilers removed]"

for sure... sometimes you just gloss over the implications and move on, I guess... add in Amandine, and you have a Kevin Costner movie ;)

Y'know, I'm starting to wonder which of y'all's spoiler tags are safe... looks like Emily's message 13 & 15 might be safe when I finish the book... nothing in-between though...

Anyway, Chapter 13... (view spoiler)[Lots more questions! Oberon decided it "wasn't safe for [Janet] to be with her daughter, not with her history..." What history? Just that she's human? Story of Tamerlane? Did she get some enemies? Related to the story of how she became Oberon's lover that no-one mentioned?

Also, the theory that most of Faerie comes from human matches and then turned wholly Fae with hope chests seems to be strong here...

And new bone, "Maeve's Curse." LOL Toby says she needs a flowchart. I'm imagining all the readers reading this chapter with a flowchart frickin' handy. Interesting that Maeve cursed Janet with immortal life and youth. Some would think that a blessing... or maybe a present for Oberon. Here, enjoy your human lover forever. But not a woman twice spurned... Really want that story too.

Hah! I would love for this to be aimed more at Janet than Toby. Serve her right for being an ass of assumptions about the whole thing.

Also... they should really take that rose with them. How do we know that the stabby-stabby thing isn't going to have more repercussions down the line? Like needing allergy pills for the sachets. Bring the rose to Walter!

And if the Courtyard is hers, does that make Janet Baba Yaga? Cuz that would be an interesting cross. Someone needs to ask her about the chicken legs.

Really looking forward to how the Luideag reacts to all this. (hide spoiler)]

Explanations / Infodump is coming, if you're not at Luideag yet...

Chapter 14---(view spoiler)[They bring up The Ride! There was talk of the Ride in one of the memories Toby rode... Luideag's? Someone was begging someone not to Ride... I wonder if it has been broken ever since Janet? If that might be the thing her bloodline needs to set right? Okay, doing another Ebook search... this was recent...

Okay, first mention of a Ride is Blind Michael's Wild Ride, which I don't think is the same thing... maybe a corrupted version after the original Ride was broken?

Okay, most recent mention was in Once Broken Faith, here's the text, a Luideag memory:

My mother is wearing a gown of thorns and autumn leaves, and there are roses in her hair, and she is beautiful, and she is not listening to me. Her eyes are far away, fixed on the horizon; she would rather hear the wind than my voice. It isn’t fair. I love her so, I suffer for her so, and still she will not hear me, because she is too kind. She has always been too kind. Titania’s children change their songs when she walks in the forest. The monsters come to sit at her feet and adore her, and she does not have to face the reasons that their claws are bloody, that their teeth are sharp. She doesn’t have to see.

“Please,” I say⁠—and the word was jarring enough to knock me back into my own mind, my own present, if only for a moment; the language the Luidaeg spoke wasn’t English, and I shouldn’t have been able to understand it. She said she’d forgotten the first language of Faerie, and she hadn’t lied, because she couldn’t lie, but somewhere deep down, below conscious thought, her blood remembered.

You remember, I thought. Then the blood overwhelmed me again, dragging me back down into memory.

“Mother, please,” I say. “This is foolishness. You know the ritual has been compromised. You have to change it. You have to find another way.”

“Tradition may not seem important to you, my Annie, who saw Tradition born, but it’s not just you we Ride for,” says Maeve. Her voice is summer wind and autumn berries, and I want her to talk to me forever, and I want her to be quiet and listen. “We Ride for our grandchildren, and our great-grandchildren, all the way down to the generations that have never known anything but this. We Ride to consolidate a legend, that someday, when we are gone, you can Ride without us.”

She doesn’t see. She doesn’t understand. She’s as far above me as I am above the fae who swarm around their Firstborn parents, forever limited in comparison, eternally unable to grasp the full consequence of what they do. “Tonight is Hallow’s Eve, Mother. Please. Send someone else to Ride for you. Take the true route elsewhere, or all is lost.”

“My darling girl,” she says, and steps closer to me. Her palm is soft against my cheek. She smells like wild roses and southernwood, like moss and loam and the first day of the fall. I will never love anything the way I love her, not as long as I may live. “The fae folk must Ride.”

So, this must have been when Maeve was lost--she didn't just walk away like Oberon did, or whatever Titania did... she Rode, and was lost somehow, because Janet broke the Ride... but is Tam Lin/Tamerlane Oberon? We'd better get her full story...

And with Maeve lost, the balance of power was made inequal... or maybe Oberon went in search of his first Queen?

Okay, Toby says "Everyone knew the story" but obviously we don't know the whole story, lol. We've been conveniently kept in the dark about a oh, single moment that broke faerie. Seems like that would've been pretty important to share, no?

Ah, okay, so there was a real Tam Lin. Why did Janet save him? And how? In the stories, she had to be pregnant with his child to do so. But she had Oberon's. Unless there's another weirdly fae-but-not-fae great-aunt or uncle running around somewhere.

Random mention of Poppy! I want her to get a more active role...

Oh yay! Proper story time! (hide spoiler)]

Rides: (view spoiler)[are definitely a theme of the series... book 3, this book, a future published book you haven't read yet... smaller mentions in those clips you linked...

It's definitely a throughline of the series, that I don't think has been fully resolved/explored yet... (hide spoiler)]

LOL as much as I hate it when Goodreads gives me the pink html scroll of doom when I post, forcing me to refresh constantly, it is just as annoying when it doesn't update others' posts or make me refresh when I'm reading and constantly commenting...

OMG read the summary of Rumor Has It and that is just... awful... omg. Never going to watch that movie. Reading the summary was bad enough.

Was actually thinking, on those lines, about an earlier conversation in the book--(view spoiler)[On how Tybalt is hundreds of years older than Toby, Toby decades older than Quentin, but they will all be adults together... this kind of cross generational weird relationships must be fairly common when people live for centuries. Maybe the "ick" factor is a human response. (hide spoiler)]

TY for the Ride info... definitely going to keep an eye on that too... (view spoiler)[Ride also seems to be linked to sacrifice... giving to Faerie... probably also related to why Oberon had to close the deeper realms... if the Ride & Sacrifice weren't working anymore, Faerie itself wouldn't really be safe... without a designated Sacrifice, maybe Faerie was eating anyone? Kind of like the B-Sith... (hide spoiler)]

I think the infodump is coming now... got half of it, still more to come... just having a nice Sunday afternoon read right now... going to finish this book then get to work...

The 2000s... a simpler time... messed up movies were still getting made... that move always stuck with me... I never watched it, but I remember seeing the trailers and movie poster...

One of the most messed up movies I remember watching was a 2002 movie billed as a romance... 40 Days and 40 Nights... in the ending the ex-girlfriend rapes the MC to win a bet... and no one sees it as rape. Like, the movie is billed as a romantic comedy. And it has a guy tied down and hallucinating while his ex (who he has rejected multiple times) rapes him and then claims that he didn't abstain for the whole 40 days. It's so wrong.

Nirkatze wrote: "One of the most messed up movies I remember watching was a 2002 movie billed as a romance... 40 Days and 40 Nights... in the ending the ex-girlfriend rapes the MC to win a bet... and no one sees it..."

Sure is... I've seen it 2-3 times... once I think I just stumbled on to it on TV at work... it was definitely a top-billed romcom in it's time... the actors were everywhere back then... Hartnett was doing Pearl Harbor and Lucky Number Slevin... the female was doing Knight's Tale with Heath Ledger and maybe a few other movies...

I think I might have seen a youtube discussion about this movie aging like milk, as well...

Anyway, Chapter 15--(view spoiler)[And of course it all comes back to Eira. I have to wonder though, if Eira thought of it herself, or if she was put up to it by Titania.

Oh man, Janet saying "my perfect Amy"--sheesh. Toby really lost in the blood family lottery. She's so oblivious and obnoxious. Oberon has bad taste in women.

Really want to know what Maeve was thinking when she cursed Janet... I don't think it's as clear-cut as Janet thinks.

Okay, to the old knowe we go! I wonder who Jocelyn's mom is? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 16--(view spoiler)[Glad we're getting the story of how Toby found the false Queen's knowe. There's a lot of little loose ends like this just lying around, ignored...

Okay, rewind--yet another loose end just waved in our face. Dawn! She shows up in the Lorden shorts--passing herself off as Evening's younger sister when Simon knows she's no such thing. Who is she? And now we learn she was murdered? But all we get is that little throwaway tidbit? There's more there, dammit.

And I'm still waiting on cinnamon.

B-Sith is back! And is left behind again. Kinda wish they'd dropped her in the meeting room and aimed her at the kidnappers. Also, Toby needs to drink a gallon of orange juice. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 17--(view spoiler)[Deja vu here, the Queen demanding her Siren back... glad of the consistency though, good full circle.

Okay, so cinnamon and cardamon is Dugan again... though why he'd go back to her I don't know. Seems like Eira is a more likely connection... (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze wrote: "Anyway, Chapter 15--..."

(view spoiler)[ I try not to judge Janet too harshly for that... I assume it's rose-tinted glasses (ba-dum-tsh)... since she hasn't had contact in centuries, since newborn basically...

Re:curse: I wonder if it helped keep Maeve alive in some fashion, despite the Ride/sacrifice... this is one of those questions still waiting to be answered, so I can comment/speculate more...

The False Queen is a bit of a joke, after this book, in my head... she pops up at least one more time later on in the series, and is kinda just dealt with in a paragraph off-page/screen :D (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 18--(view spoiler)[And who told Dugan where to go, and how to get her out?

I rather thought he'd be the one who shot May & Quentin... since he shot Raysel, and probably Nolan long ago too. They'd better check their elf-shot for secondary poisons.

Oh hey, the B-Sith can talk! Oh good, I thought she was one of the beast-fae, but seems like she was just tortured out of her mind...

So... only fae can survive elf-shot... I imagine Luideag will give Gillian a selkie-skin... which makes me wonder if she just has one on hand, or if she had to demand one... okay, I'm getting ahead of myself... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 19--(view spoiler)[Yup, selkie! Really looking forward to future conversations with Gillian. Also was thinking this would be the route because the next book has to be the Roane book, with the title.

Luideag's "you owe me nothing for your daughter" is getting another awwvww out of me. The Luideag's the best...

Good question about where the false Queen's transformation magic comes from. That one is still a pickle of mysteries...

Also, really cool piece about the Fae last names! And another hit for the theory of where the Firsts' lines came from--humans/changelings turned full fae into different lines... (hide spoiler)]

We're getting close to the end of the published works... lot of pivotal books...

(view spoiler)[On point about the next one being the Roane book... then we get the Simon book (turns out, you can't get married in Faerie without your father walking you down the aisle, if he lives... and we know how complicated Faerie genealogy is, blood be damned)... then we have the Wedding Book... then we have the Stacy/Brown book we've been hinting at for awhile now...

Then we have the 2 newest books I'm not gonna say anything about... (hide spoiler)]

More mildly spoilery future book focus talk, above...

Chapter 20--(view spoiler)[Really looking forward to Gillian finding out that Toby didn't abandon her on purpose. Just not today apparently. Also just realized that the short after this is Suffer a Sea-Change--bound to be Gillian adjusting. So I can hope she learns in that, maybe that it ends with her calling Toby... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 21--(view spoiler)[Yeah, more to this than just Dugan... either he isn't just a regular person, or someone is pulling his strings, and then the most likely culprits are Eira or Simon... except that Jocelyn being Gillian's roommate... I mean... how long ago was the false queen put to sleep? How long ago did Gillian go to college? How does the Janet angle work into this? I need a flow chart.

Okay, I was kind of wondering about that--Dugan is Daoine Sidhe... but I do also seem to remember thinking there were potals involved around him. Maybe he was half Tuatha? Or is he using potions like the ones made with Chelsea's blood? (hide spoiler)]

Timelord Iain wrote: "We're getting close to the end of the published works... lot of pivotal books..."

Ooh, shiny shiny! Has McGuire said how far into the story we are, by what's published? 50%? 80%?

Chapter 22--(view spoiler)[Okay, so they're back in the false Queen's knowe--where is everyone? Dianda was just there a minute ago. So was Sylvester.

I have to wonder if the false Queen would be as determined to regain her heritage if Toby had pulled one of the other pieces out of her. Would she have chosen Siren if she were given the Choice? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 23--(view spoiler)[Hah! Glad Toby was finally able to have it out with Cliff. He deserves all the blame.

Also... Toby telling May not to go see Gillian... she does realize that May is as connected to Gillian as she is, right? She also needs to see that she's okay...

Also, putting jam with a chicken salad sandwich etc doesn't seem weird to me. Cranberry sauce on turkey. Grapes in chicken salad. It's a thing. I wonder if McGuire eats sandwiches like these. (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze wrote: "Timelord Iain wrote: "We're getting close to the end of the published works... lot of pivotal books..."

Ooh, shiny shiny! Has McGuire said how far into the story we are, by what's published? 50%? ..."

I don't think so... she's joked about wanting to be one book longer than Dresden Files, which means a minimum of 29 books, I think, if Dresden got extended to 25+3 capstone trilogy books, which I think it did...

Similar to Dresden, we know the names of the final books, so we know when they're coming, a year or 3 out... Fear No More and Come to Dust are to be the names of the final 2 books...

She called #8 the end of the first arc... and I think #15 the end of the 2nd arc... altho I generally compare 16-18 to 8 more...

Also, in one of her new book release tweetfests, she talked about how the series has certain rhythms... things that seem to happen every 3rd book and every 4th book... I think it was on Twitter... which is so finicky these days, as Musk keeps changing the rules for viewing tweets without an account...

Nirkatze wrote: "Chapter 20--[spoilers removed]

Chapter 21--"

I haven't read the (view spoiler)[Gillian (hide spoiler)] short stories, but I really feel like I need to... you learn alot about how (view spoiler)[the selkie skins work... or how Gillian's works... it might be different, as one of the only wielders who isn't decended from the Roane murderers... (hide spoiler)]

I only know from wiki spoilers...

And done! Quite a ride here! (view spoiler)[Lots of things revealed: Janet & the downfall of Faerie, most likely the whole thing that Amandine's line is supposed to fix. Last names of Fae coming from their mortal progenitors.

Lots more questions opened or remembered:
Danny's sister
who was behind Dugan--where'd that knife come from?
why were they really trying to connect Toby & Janet?
Marcia and cinnamon rolls
Hut with frickin' chicken legs!
want to know more about the B-Sith
Who killed Dawn? Why? Who is Dawn?
The Merlins! What's up with them?

I don't think I listed them all, just ones I can think of off the top of my head. I do NOT think that we know everything yet about how and why this whole Gillian kidnapping conflict came to be... there's too many loose strings. I'm not happy with the explanation that Dugan was just that dedicated to the false Queen. (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze wrote: "Chapter 23--..."

No idea... all I know, is McGuire had a rough childhood... she associates with certain characters in the Wayward Children series, based on Forewords/Acknowledgements... especially the goblin market one, that talks about how kids that act mature usually do so for reasons that aren't great indicators of their home life, and then last year's book, which dealt with the death of a father and grooming by pervy stepdads, before veering off into the fantasy plot of the series, when the MC found their Narnia Door...

Starting Suffer a Sea-Change--interesting that it overlaps with the last few chapters of the book, but from (view spoiler)[Gillian's (hide spoiler)] perspective.

Chapter 1 (view spoiler)[Poppy! Now I want Poppy and Gillian to become friends.

Nice to see the process to make Gillian a Selkie. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 2 (view spoiler)[Oh cool, and creepy, and sad, bittersweet... there really is still a part of the original Roane in their skins... I like how Firtha tells Gillian not to remove it--that her skin is the only gift she has left to give...

I like the idea of Gillian being the one Selkie who Luideag might be able to love, and forgive... for she is innocent, and did not choose it, and the Luideag chose it for her...

The mention of how Fritha never earned her sweet-names makes me think of Opal in DFZ--named for something worthless but pretty, just because she brought her father joy by existing... and not for any other worth... (hide spoiler)]

@Iain--thank you for the information about the series... seems like we might be 2/3s in? super curious what other hidden things may be around...

I actually didn't know that Butcher has titles for his last books... all I know is Twelve Months and Mirror Mirror...

I keep hoping to get caught up on Wayward Children. Don't think it will happen in time for book 9 though.

Did you stall out on the collection of shorts, Iain?

Nirkatze wrote: "Starting .."
And now you've reached one of my big spoilers of the series, from way back when, talking to Emily... (view spoiler)[how Gillian has one of the most peculiar bloodlines in Faerie...

1) Quarterblood Dochas Sidhe to
2) Fullblood Human to
3) Belted Selkie to
4) Fullblood Roane (is this really a spoiler?... you know where the plot is going, don't lie... it's just a matter of how to reach the endgoal, Toby-style)...

I've thought about this alot, this year, because the Dark Hunter series cares alot about bloodlines, and does some crazy stuff with gods swapping babies in wombs and mixing unexpected bloodlines... (hide spoiler)]