Black Coffee discussion

Here is where we will be discussing Native Son by Richard Wright.

Synopsis: Right from the start, Bigger Thomas had been headed for jail. It could have been for assault or petty larceny; by chance, it was for murder and rape. Native Son tells the story of this young black man caught in a downward spiral after he kills a young white woman in a brief moment of panic.

Set in Chicago in the 1930s, Wright's powerful novel is an unsparing reflection on the poverty and feelings of hopelessness experienced by people in inner cities across the country and of what it means to be black in America.

Will you be joining us?

Yes, I have put this on hold at my library. I had to be careful where I put a hold on it so I didn't end up with an abridged copy given how our library network has changed a few things.

Sounds interesting. Can’t wait to read!

I will order it now. Looking forward to reading this book.

I have this novel for ages and never start reading it. I’d like to join you and read along. However, this would be my first time reading in a group on Goodreads. So, I don’t actually know how it works 😅

I’m excited!

This is my favorite book of all time. It surprises me this is no longer a staple in school reading … wait I retract that statement (note I live in TN) I can’t wait to see what this group thinks!! I hope yall love Richard Wright as much as I do. Black Boy is also amazing!

I read this book over fourth years ago. I don’t remember much except the name Bigger Thomas and a rat. I will be starting this book on the 1st and I am looking forward to it immensely.

Maybe after this book, we can read something light or in a happy mindset for April, just a thought.

I agree Dosha! I created a thread for April suggestions, please be sure to drop some titles there.

Yousef welcome to the group! We usually read the book in sections and post our thoughts. It’s an ongoing discussion throughout the month.

Yousef wrote: "I have this novel for ages and never start reading it. I’d like to join you and read along. However, this would be my first time reading in a group on Goodreads. So, I don’t actually know how it wo..."

Welcome to the group Yousef! I joined the group in late December and January was my first group read. It was really easy to jump in the convo and the discussion was great. I hope you enjoy the group.

I’m definitely joining the discussion. I borrowed the ebook from the library already. I can’t wait to get started. 🤓

Dosha (Bluestocking7) wrote: "I read this book over fourth years ago. I don’t remember much except the name Bigger Thomas and a rat. I will be starting this book on the 1st and I am looking forward to it immensely.

Maybe afte..."

Yes, I agree :)

Dosha (Bluestocking7) wrote: "I read this book over fourth years ago. I don’t remember much except the name Bigger Thomas and a rat. I will be starting this book on the 1st and I am looking forward to it immensely.

Maybe afte..."

Hey Dosha,
That’s a great idea. I certainly have some suggestions but if you have titles in mind please add them to April’s nominations thread so they can get added to the poll.

Hey Everyone!
I’ll be moderating this month’s group read. I’m really excited because it’s my first time moderating.

The schedule is broken down by book because there aren’t any chapters. As we move along I’d like to throw in some questions about the book to further the discussion. I left some days at the end so we can think about the book as whole and give our final thoughts.

Feel free to join the convo whenever you like and I hope you enjoy the book. 🤓

Reading Schedule
March 7th - Book One: Fear open for discussion
March 17th - Book Two: Flight open for discussion
Match 27th - Book Three: Fate open for discussion

Wow! This is exciting, I am looking forward to the discussion. I started it tonight, yikes! It sure starts out with a bang.

If you’ve never read the book I suggest you skip the introduction

My copy has an introduction and as I’m reading it I have realized it contains spoilers. I’m pissed because I don’t normally read introductions, I decided to read this one because I came across some interesting info when I skimmed through the book. I can tell these aren’t small spoilers they are huge plot points.

I read this book over forty years ago (I am 67) so I remember nothing. That being said, I am glad I skipped the intro. Thanks for the heads up, I will NOT go back and read the introduction like I planned on doing. 😎

I didn’t realize how much criticism this book received when it was released. Nor did I know that James Baldwin’s Notes of a Native Son was a response.

My book just arrived. I’m on the last story in Mr. Hughes’ book so will be starting Native Son today!

Yea, I recently learned that too Lulu and that Richard Wright was James Baldwin’s mentor. It’s an interesting bit of info. I plan to read it after I finish this book

Shaylah wrote: "Hey Everyone!
I’ll be moderating this month’s group read. I’m really excited because it’s my first time moderating.

The schedule is broken down by book because there aren’t any chapters. As we mov..."

Thanks! I have this book here, but won't be starting it for a few days.

Good advice about not reading the intro--I avoid those for classics other than perhaps a paragraph or two because they tend to include spoilers which, IMO, assumes we've already read the book before.

I am just up to the point where Bigger and his friend are leaving the movie theater. The rat scenario was quite the opener. But the movie theater scenario was actually gross. Anyone who is that far will know what I am talking about. I work this weekend and Monday and Tuesday so not sure how far I will get in this first book section. I am up to page 34 now. Will try to get some read later.

Shaylah wrote: "Hey Everyone!
I’ll be moderating this month’s group read. I’m really excited because it’s my first time moderating.

The schedule is broken down by book because there aren’t any chapters. As we mov..."

Seems like I'm a bit late to the party, but I'll be starting it today and see if I can catch up in time for discussion. Looking forward to reading with you all :)

First, welcome Shaylah to the group. I am looking forward to discussing this book.

Hello all,

I am on page 40 of my Kindle. Bigger is an absolute asshole.

That is all I got. My rant is over.

Bigger has so much pent up rage, insecurity that he’s like a ticking time bomb and you just don’t know when he’s going to explode. That is my initial impression of him. I feel bad for him but man, he doesn’t seem to be very motivated to want to do something that may lead to better paths. I think he shows signs of major depression. I haven’t gotten through the first section yet. I am still working at it. Hope to get more read tomorrow and Weds.

Well, I see GR will not let me express how I really feel. I am pretty certain I described Bigger accurately when I typed the word that means the hole in the center of the buttocks. I must have used invisible ink, lol. I will continue reading but I may not be able to be part of the discussions.

Dosha (Bluestocking7) wrote: "Well, I see GR will not let me express how I really feel. I am pretty certain I described Bigger accurately when I typed the word that means the hole in the center of the buttocks. I must have used..."

I agree on both fronts GR limiting freedom of expression and that discription XXD Bigger's like a walking lump of insecurity and poor business choices. Granted, his family's situation and surroundings are not helping, but at this point I believe most of the mess is on the inside. This book better have a very convincing sob story ahead if Bigger's hoping for redemption. I'm at the end of Fear and I have to say that escalated rather quickly.

I started this last night intending to read only 50 pages, but finished all of part one. The writing is excellent or I'd have quit. Yes, Dosha you are correct about Bigger! Since it's after March 7 I can talk about the first section (read it on that day). I am not sure if I can bring myself to read more because I always have a difficult time reading novels when I dislike the protagonist. I understand his angst but not how he responds as much.

I read just a couple of snippets of the long introduction after reading this section on Fear and see that it was a big deal to have a black POV who is an asshole written by a black author--I think it was the first, at least in the States. (not the word in the intro) but also that this was the first novel by a black author that made the Book of the Month monthly selection. I have very bad feelings about this being that first book for the club!!! How did that help??? Why not some other brilliant black literature that was out there already?

However, I do know that some people get violent when afraid, but it was horrifying when (view spoiler)[Bigger goaded his gang to do the robbery and then beat one of them so he could get out of it. (hide spoiler)]

I thought that the family who hired him were a little too strong on the first day, especially the daughter--how could anyone trust someone the first time they meet them, let alone in this instance? I didn't like the daughter and wonder if Jan was using her for money, but there is a lot of book to go if I manage to pick it up again even though I dislike Bigger so much.

But also I am not into what might be the political message (came up in the intro, but didn't keep reading much about it) will be if it ends up supporting communism which is very oppressive and doesn't make bigotry or hate go away. In fact, it can foment it. I have met many refugees from communist countries and it sounds egalitarian in theory, but isn't in practice.

On a separate note, and this is probably just me, but many times I felt like the dialogue and so on etc read rather like a play or old movie, especially when Bigger was at home in the opening scene (but of course they would have had to to behind a screen to dress I would think since I pictured it like a play from the 1930s/1940s.

I just finished book one and right now all I can say is wow 😮! The entire first part was really intense and I’m going to have to gather my thoughts before saying more lol

Good Morning,

I just reserved my copy to pick it up at the library today. I have not read this book since I was in high school, but your comments have renewed my excitement for it, and I can't wait to experience it as an adult.

I am up to page 50 and my opinion of Bigger remains the same. He is still a hole in the middle of the gluteus maximus. I don’t like the dude. After I read the way he treated Gus, I hope someone comes along and kicks his ass. I don’t like the way he treats his family either.

Where does this book take place? I get the feeling it is in NYC but I have nothing to base it on.

I think I remember reading that someone believes there is a screen in the room for the males and females to change clothes behind. I don’t think so, but if they were to make this book into a movie (if it has not been done already) that would most likely have to be a change for the screen version. I remember visiting my Uncle Harold and Aunt Lula Bell for the summer. They had seven kids. If someone was in a room that was a different gender we used to tell them to get under the covers, hide your eyes etc while we changed.

I think it takes place in Chicago. But I kept picturing NYC also. I am up to the point where he has just interviewed with the family and he accepts/has been given the job. He is currently driving the daughter that he saw in the movie (ad? Newsreel?) to her university, although she isn’t really going to the University. One question I pondered about the family he is working for: “they like colored people. They donate to the NAACP, they helped their previous employee go to night school.” Bigger made a valid point about how his mother judged him on what she wanted him to do and thinks he should do, and the feeling he got from the woman who was questioning him (I don’t have my book with me right now so I can’t recall the last name of the family he is working with): her line of questioning made him feel like she was judging him on what she felt like he should want or need to do. So the thing I am going over in my mind, is the family seems like they are truly decent, humanitarian people…or are they white saviors? Any thoughts? Opinions?

I skipped the intro and based on the comments on this thread, I am glad I did. I may never read the intro. I have to admit, I didn’t know that Mr Wright was a mentor for Mr Baldwin and that Baldwins work Notes of a Native Son were a reflection on how he perceives the book. I will definitely be reading Baldwin s take on NS.

I wonder if Mr Wright named him Bigger because the first letter of his name is right beside the N? It is very easy to accidentally slip the finger one notch over into a political war field. I accidentally did it and am Very glad is proofread it before I hit the send button. I had a WOW moment when I realized the accurate error. The realization was most unsettling. I really need to get past my feelings on Bigger Thomas. Wagging a rat in your little sister’s face though 🤷🏽‍♀️. I just don’t get it. I’m a little bit scared to keep reading, but I will read at least for 15 minutes while I get on the treadmill.

Bigger is so full of paranoia and self-loathing it almost seems like he’s mentally ill. I’m on page 67- he’s just met the boyfriend of Mary Dalton.

Ok, I am going to try to catch up with you now. It is time for my walk.

Ok Mary bugs me. She is acting like Bigger is some sort of tourist attraction. My opinion. Don’t come at me! Lol.

I just finished Part 1! Oh Man! Bigger is going to be in bigger trouble!

Well, I cannot believe I am going to say this but here I am on page 67 and I am worried about Bigger. Yes, he has been a royal pain in the “you know what” but now that he is FINALLY trying to do the right thing - this little white girl is gonna bring him down. Yessiree, Ms. Mary Dalton is up to no good and he is going to pay for it big time. I don’t know how it will happen, but I smell a rat.

I could not help but think about our dear friend in Mr. Hughe’s book that worked at the home for crippled children when Peggy told Bigger he had to tend to the furnace also. Oh sh!t, Mr. Dalton didn’t say anything about a furnace. I wonder what else he will have to do besides tending the furnace and driving Ms. Mary around. I am almost scared to find out.

I will extend a bit more grace to Bigger and say maybe this is not his first shady encounter with white folks and he knows he cannot win. We met him when he woke up and had to beat a big assed rat to death- it’s a helluva way to start your day.

I don’t know he has been through before the rat encounter, so I will back off the poor fella for awhile and see if he can make it work.

Angel wrote: "I think it takes place in Chicago. But I kept picturing NYC also. I am up to the point where he has just interviewed with the family and he accepts/has been given the job. He is currently driving t..."

I had mixed feelings on this. On the one hand she understood that education of black men is important (still a big issue today and this leads to higher levels of poverty, etc) and she had supported their former driver at night school until he was able to get a better job. On the other hand you could say she was judgemental about his decision, but she also couldn't fathom why he didn't want to better her situation, either.

So far it's really hard not to judge Bigger who is so very nasty and lazy and really doesn't want to do anything to help himself and that was before he got this job. He wasn't even sure if he wanted to go get a job despite his family's living situation and the fact that they'd lose public aid if he didn't work. If someone could tell me in a spoiler whether or not we some redeeming qualities and/or character growth for Bigger by the end of the book, that would be helpful. I don't like books where I dislike the main character.

@Dosha, I caught that also when the cook told him he had to manage the furnace. I instantly thought of Berry.
@Karin- Bigger is definitely an unsympathetic character, but I am trying to look objectively at his traits. Depression and Oppression can sometimes create unsavory personalities. I would like to think that he will have at least some redeeming qualities, but I guess we will have to keep reading to find out.

Karin,
We are going to have to keep reading to find out whether he has any redeeming qualities. I cannot remember. One good thing about him is that he making me get on that dreaded treadmill. That is when I do the.most reading.

Dosha (Bluestocking7) wrote: "Karin,
We are going to have to keep reading to find out whether he has any redeeming qualities. I cannot remember. One good thing about him is that he making me get on that dreaded treadmill. That ..."

If we had room for a treadmill, I'd read while walking on it. Anything to motivate me to exercise! My current form is moving to music any way I feel like it that gets my breathing up; I lock the door so nobody can watch me :) If not for that (after a gentle but lovign push from a pastor to the entire group, not to be fitness crazy, but to get some exercise) I'd be slacking off this winter just like last winter.

Bigger doesn’t have any remorse. He almost seems like he’s thinking about doing it again. (I’m only up to page 111 in the Part 2: Flight). I think he is definitely antisocial and perhaps even a sociopath. He is so detached emotionally from everyone around him. I am keeping this vague because I am not sure where others are at in the book. I was hoping to be further along but I had my nephews over this past weekend so didn’t get much reading done. Hoping to hit it hard this week.

This book is scaring me. I am still in part one. They (Mary, Jan and Bigger is driving) are riding around Washington park at night and drinking rum. All three of them are demonstrating the type of careless, yet destructive behavior that can get them all killed or badly hurt. Bigger will blamed and I am worried.

It gets worse, Dosha. Brutal. But not how you might think. I didn’t trust Mary and Jan, yes they had good intentions maybe. But considering the time they were in back then, you’re right, any number of terrible things could happen. But what eventually does happen is shocking. That’s all I will say until you catch up. I’m slow reading because I get so distracted but I am going to have some time to myself this week on Weds and Thursday so hoping to get through Part 2.

I think that Bigger is a textbook figure of a sociopath by today’s definitions. The dude needs help big time.

Dosha (Bluestocking7) wrote: "I think that Bigger is a textbook figure of a sociopath by today’s definitions. The dude needs help big time."

Angel wrote: "It gets worse, Dosha. Brutal. But not how you might think. I didn’t trust Mary and Jan, yes they had good intentions maybe. But considering the time they were in back then, you’re right, any number..."

Yes to both of you. I decided to read more last night and like Bigger less and less. He's also rather nasty to women. I also read more of the in the introduction (view spoiler)[to see about the women and read that Richard Wright is generally hostile to women, especially black women, in his writing. He's come under the scrutiny of feminist literary criticism. I'm not surprised--another writer like that who I won't read anymore is Wallace Stegner. -- well I don't know about black women, but Stegner was rather nasty about women in the two novels I read by him and when I mentioned it to the friend who loves his writing she said he's like that, so I was finished with his books. (hide spoiler)]

I plan to finish this but based on what I put in the spoiler am not planning to read more books by Wright.