All About Books discussion

Since we're starting with a new Monday Poem folder, I figured we should have a new general poetry discussion thread.

What poetry are you reading? Whose your favorite poet?

great idea! I love so much poetry but return to the following more than others, bukowski (saw poetry in unique places), Lorca ( the New York collection is amazing) and Baudelaire's Flowers of Evil moves me still. ✍️

I still have not started (or even selected) my poetry book for National Poetry Month :(

I saw that Greg was reading Baudelaire and his The Flowers of Evil is available at my library but the description put me off. What is it that you like about it?

Tumbleweed Words wrote: "great idea! I love so much poetry but return to the following more than others, bukowski (saw poetry in unique places), Lorca ( the New York collection is amazing) and Baudelaire's Flowers of Evil ..."

I have read some Lorca, but I don't think I've read the New York collection. Which one is that?

Thanks for creating the thread Leslie! :)

poet in New York Gregg :)

Leslie Baudelaire was a symbolist poet who wrote of longing and despair and love and loss, all the usual poetry bits

Tumbleweed Words wrote: "poet in New York Gregg :)"

Ah, interesting, I've never read that one! Poet in New York Thanks for the recommendation Tumbleweed Words!

Leslie wrote: "I saw that Greg was reading Baudelaire and his The Flowers of Evil is available at my library ..."

I don't know what you'd think of it Leslie?

It's much less raw and disordered and undisciplined than Arthur Rimbaud, but I can feel the beginning of that sort of decadence in it.

For instance, from "A Carrion":

"The flies swarmed over the putrid belly,
From which emerged black batallions
Of maggots, which flowed like a thick liquid
Along these human rags."

I feel a little of Wilde in here in the attraction for morally ambiguous beauty, for deadly loveliness, but it doesn't have much of his Wilde's wit. Wit is replaced here with passion.

From "The Mask":

"--Also, see that enticing voluptuous smile
In which Fatuity parades its ecstasy;
That long sly look, langorous and mocking"

I was reading it because Tumbleweed Words mentioned it in an earlier post and I haven't read it in many years. It's a seminal French work. It's not the sort of poetry I usually read, but I do like it. I don't know if I'd recommend it to you or not.

I like some of the extended metaphors, such as "The Abatross," where poets are compared to the great birds who are objects of wonder in the air but just comic and ugly when landed on the ground of the deck with their huge wings dragging.

It's hard to tell how good my copy's translation is since I don't speak French. Poor translations can cause a lot of the magic of poetry to be lost.

fair comment here, Baudelaire is not for everyone for sure

Tumbleweed Words wrote: "fair comment here, Baudelaire is not for everyone for sure"

I do like it Tumbleweed Words, and all of my friends who have read Flowers of Evil rated it highly! But yes, I'd say he's not for everyone. It's pretty daring and sometimes quite dark.

I'm curious as to what happened in the obscenity trial when it was published? Do you know? I see the book was banned by French courts all the way from 1857 to 1949!

It's hard to believe the book was published in 1857!!! I just saw the publishing date, and it shocked me. He was so ahead of his time! I can see why the introduction in my book calls him "the poet and thinker of our age, of what we like to call modernity."

yep, much like other modern poets he was silenced. Ginsberg was almost out in jail in the late fifties for Howl - crazy, art being made punishable. jean genet, the list goes on

must have been pushing the boundaries, which is what poetry should do from time to time :)

I am almost done now with the "Flowers of Evil" section of Flowers of Evil and Other Works/Les Fleurs du Mal et Oeuvres Choisies : A Dual-Language Book (Dover Foreign Language Study Guides). In the second half of Flowers of Evil there is a whole sequence of poems describing his tortured spiritual state, in which he feels trapped within himself, unredeemable, and lost, and in which he yearns for an impossible escape. These poems strike me as remarkable for the era and quite affecting.

I like this from "L'Irremediable / The Irremediable":

"Somber clear dialogue
Of a heart which has become its own mirror!
Well of Truth, clear and black,
Where a pale star trembles

An ironic, infernal beacon,
Torch of satanic grace, . . ."

And he expresses it even more clearly and succintly in another poem "L'Heautontimoroumenos / Heautontimoroumenos":

"I am the vampire of my own heart"

Although I can't quite understand his psychological or spiritual state, I can feel the pain in it and I can empathize with it. To write what he did in 1857, he must have been incredibly brave.

yes Gregg! I love the honest despair in these ones, so glad you found them and what I consider the strongest area of his work, despair shouted out with desire for the earth moon star ✨

Yeah, despair was the vibe I got from the library description which is why I decided to pass on it. Thanks for the examples Greg - I can see why it is considered an important work but not at all the kind that I would enjoy reading at the moment (and possibly not ever).

t s Eliot is pretty solid

and Emily Dickinson

:)

Tumbleweed Words wrote: "t s Eliot is pretty solid"

Some of Eliot's poetry can be a bit obscure, but it's also extraordinarily beautiful! The ending of Prufrock is among the loveliest and most evocative lines of poetry I've ever read.

And Dickenson is wonderful!

Leslie wrote: "Yeah, despair was the vibe I got from the library description which is why I decided to pass on it. Thanks for the examples Greg - I can see why it is considered an important work but not at all th..."

I totally get that Leslie!

It isn't in my usual wheelhouse either, though I'm still astounded at the year it was written. He was off on a path of his own, way ahead of his time.

Greg wrote: "Tumbleweed Words wrote: "t s Eliot is pretty solid"

Some of Eliot's poetry can be a bit obscure, but it's also extraordinarily beautiful! The ending of Prufrock is among the loveliest and most evo..."

I was surprised by how much I liked Eliot's poetry when I first experienced it! Prufock was one of my favorites...

Leslie wrote: "I was surprised by how much I liked Eliot's poetry when I first experienced it! Prufock was one of my favorites"

Me too Leslie! Despite finding the protagonist of the poem a bit creepy and stalkerish, the poem itself is so extraordinary that it rises above all of that. It's breathtaking, from the beginning fog-cat to the gorgeous conclusion in the dark combed waves

let's us go you and I, great opening

Eliot wasn't my favorite but I love prufrock. William Carlos Williams is fun, Allen Ginsberg blew my mind when young

Tumbleweed Words wrote: "Eliot wasn't my favorite but I love prufrock. William Carlos Williams is fun, Allen Ginsberg blew my mind when young"

I very much enjoyed Pictures from Brueghel and Other Poems by William Carlos Williams! It's among my favorites.

And I still think Howl and Other Poems is wonderful - so moving and angry and ecstatic. I have friends that dislike it, but the crassness is used to good effect I think. It's at the same time a howl of almost mystical ecstasy and a howl of frustration at the world's injustice and cruelty.

i saw the best minds of a generation destroyed by madness

what an opening

Tumbleweed Words wrote: "what an opening"

Indeed!

I just finished the sun and her flowers by Rupi Kaur. Not really my cup of tea as the content was disturbing (a lot about rape and abuse).

Also, the poetry itself was less structured than I tend to like, more of a series of vignettes than traditional poems. This doesn't mean that they aren't good poems, just that I prefer poetry with a strong sense of rhythm (and that rhymes) which this collection doesn't provide.

Leslie wrote: "I just finished the sun and her flowers by Rupi Kaur. Not really my cup of tea as the content was disturbing (a lot about rape and abuse).

Also, the poetry itself ..."

On the contrary I liked it quite; I usually do not read poetry, but this one struck me.

LauraT wrote: "Leslie wrote: "I just finished the sun and her flowers by Rupi Kaur. Not really my cup of tea as the content was disturbing (a lot about rape and abuse).

Also, the..."

Tastes are more individual for poetry than literature or prose nonfiction, don't you think? It's interesting how the impact of a poem depends not only on the skill of the author but also on the mood and life experience of the reader. Perhaps I was just read this collection at the wrong time, that certainly happens to me with poetry!

That said, the subject matter was disturbing enough for me to not rush to read her other work, though I have heard that it is less uncomfortable than this. I am not trying to criticize her topics, which I strongly believe should be openly aired! In fact, my discomfort is in a way the very proof of her poetry's power. Hmmm, now that we have had this brief discussion, I may have to revise my rating of the book!

Leslie wrote: "LauraT wrote: "Leslie wrote: "I just finished the sun and her flowers by Rupi Kaur. Not really my cup of tea as the content was disturbing (a lot about rape and abu..."

It's interesting how the impact of a poem depends not only on the skill of the author but also on the mood and life experience of the reader: true also for a novel, but definitly so for a poem!!!