The Sword and Laser discussion

I read this book back in 2017 and read the sequel, Children of Ruin in 2020. I'm currently devouring the threequel, Children of Memory. What really impressed me (and continues to impress me) about all three books was not so much the alien-ness of the aliens, but the familiarity. Tchaikovsky takes Earth creatures which most people would regard as unloveable at best and disgusting at worst - (spiders and ants here, (view spoiler)[ octopuses (hide spoiler)] in CoR, and in CoM (view spoiler)[ ravens (hide spoiler)]) and makes them loveable. Or at least empathise-able - he's basically doing the literary version of the (view spoiler)[ spiders' empathy virus they unleash at the end to get the humans to treat them like fellow sentient beings instead of alien abominations (hide spoiler)].

All this without humanising the uplifted animals - he doesn't give them human traits, human societies or human minds. In fact he meticulously maintains the distinctions between how the different minds work. The title of this thread is borrowed from a non-fiction book by Peter Godfrey-Smith. I happened to read this book just before Children of Ruin, and I was unsurprised to learn that Tchaikovsky had used it in his background research. It's a very interesting scientific look at how an intelligence can operate in a way completely different from a human brain. Tchaikovsky has clearly done his homework and incorporated the latest state of science into his novels, making his human readers look at the creatures around them in a different way. Science fiction in the purest sense!

The only other book I can think of that has had a similar effect on how I look at another creature is The Bees by Laline Paull. If you've enjoyed the spiders in Children of Time and want another compelling novel about invertebrate life, check it out. (It doesn't have the space-y stuff, so if you're here for the space rather than the spiders, go check out the recommendations in the other thread instead).

Did this book have the same effect on anyone else?

Oh I totally agree: It's astonishing how relatable the spiders are. And I think always giving the spider descendants the same name really helps with staying connected with the spiders on a personal level. While it confused me a little bit, it is a very clever way of making us relate to the spiders.

I never had arachnophobia, so I would be very interested if people with fear of spiders could relate in the same way?

Ruth wrote: "I read this book back in 2017 and read the sequel, Children of Ruin in 2020. I'm currently devouring the threequel, Children of Memory. What really impressed me (and..."

Absolutely, the Spider civilization was my favorite part of the book. I enjoyed it enough to get the second book. Which says quite a lot since I didn't like a number of the human characters including Kern, am I spelling that right I read the audiobook.

Dazerla wrote: "Ruth wrote: "I read this book back in 2017 and read the sequel, Children of Ruin in 2020. I'm currently devouring the threequel, Children of Memory. What really impr..."

Yeah, Kern is correct. I quite like her actually even though she's totally unlikeable. I have a soft spot for characters whose determination over-rides all reason.

Agreed, the spiders were the best part. At least their mistakes and foibles felt new and interesting instead of blindingly predictable like the humans.

Another book to try is The Mountain in the Sea in which future humans start investigating a sea monster which might just be a really smart sea creature. You only ever get the human perspective on things, but there's a lot of people thinking about what intelligence would look like in another species. I really liked it.

All the talk of how wonderful the depiction of Octopi in The Mountain in the Sea and they all ignored Children of Ruin which has wonderful depictions of other intelligent life. All praise our rulers the sentient slime moulds.

Jan wrote: "Oh I totally agree: It's astonishing how relatable the spiders are. And I think always giving the spider descendants the same name really helps with staying connected with the spiders on a personal..."

Agree about the naming of the descendents - it reminded me of the Rutherford novels that used members of the same families over centuries in his historical novels, like Sarum:


I was definitely Team Spider for CoT!

I love the spiders so much! They are my favourite thing.

Maybe this isn’t surprising, since I think we are now up to four generations of spiders living on the outside of my living room window. Like, one day a spider built a nest, and she was such a good mum, guarding and protecting it until she eventually passed, and then her babies all hatched, and they made new nests, and the cycle continued! I really want to clean my window, but I can’t bring myself to do anything to harm my spider family!

I do like Kern too. I mean, she’s obviously lost any rational parts of herself, but I find her sympathetic. Plus, if not for her, we wouldn’t have the lovely Portia or Bianca.

Spiders dream, and now possibly octopuses.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/an...

I have a tangentially relevant fact.

NASA gave spiders various stimulants and it was not good for their productivity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_...
https://web.archive.org/web/202103271...