Reading 1001 discussion

Review thread: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Hey Diane, I just noticed you put this out a month early (didn't realize there were Qs already- that's on me), and I had said in January I would take this one. Do you want me to post the ones I came up with, or do we want to just leave yours here and I'll chill on it (I'm cool either way).

Amanda wrote: "Hey Diane, I just noticed you put this out a month early (didn't realize there were Qs already- that's on me), and I had said in January I would take this one. Do you want me to post the ones I cam..."

Oops, I did not remember that you were going to host this one. If you want to use your questions that is fine. I can just delete these ones. Let me know.

I might put them up as options as well, but no need to delete what you put. This will give people some options! lol

So, Here's some stuff I came up with. Answering any of Diane's questions or any I put up are all welcome:

Really excited to be hosting this quarterly, I’m a big fan of Irving now thanks to this list, and loved this book when I read it. Hope everyone here enjoys it too!

Here’s a summary, bio, and pre-questions to get us started:

Introduction (from Encyclopedia.com)
Although John Irving's first three novels were relatively well-received by the critics, he was basically unknown to the general public until The World According to Garp became an international bestseller when it was published in the United States in 1978. The novel features the memorably eccentric characters, outlandish situations, and moments both joyous and heartbreaking that so many readers cherish. It is the tragicomic life story of author T. S. Garp, son of the controversial feminist Jenny Fields. Garp's world is filled with "lunacy and sorrow." His mother is a radically independent nurse who conceives him by taking advantage of a brain-damaged soldier. His best friend is a transsexual who was formerly a tight end for the Philadelphia Eagles. Garp struggles vainly to protect the people he loves. His life is both hilarious and ultimately tragic.

Irving's novel was especially popular on college campuses across the nation because of its youthful energy, and the novelist was applauded for creating realistic and strong female characters. Garp is an intricately plotted novel, and its themes are universal: love, sex, death, art, gender roles. The book shares many of the characteristics of Irving novels published before and after it. For example, in several Irving novels, children grow up without one or more parents, as in The Hotel New Hampshire (1981) and The Cider House Rules (1985). Garp is also influenced by Irving's experiences in Austria in the 1960s, as are Setting Free the Bears (1968) and The 158-Pound Marriage (1974).

For the most part, critics gave the novel excellent reviews. Millions continue to read Irving's books, and thus he remains one of the most popular and successful American writers of the last twenty-five years.

Author Bio (from https://john-irving.com/) :

John Irving was born in Exeter, New Hampshire, in 1942. His first novel, Setting Free the Bears, was published in 1968, when he was twenty-six. He competed as a wres­tler for twenty years and coached wrestling until he was forty-seven. In 1992, he was inducted into the National Wrestling Hall of Fame in Stillwater, Oklahoma. Irving has been nominated for a National Book Award three times, winning in 1980 for The World According to Garp. In 2000, he won the Oscar for Best Adapted Screenplay for The Cider House Rules. In 2013, he won a Lambda Literary Award for In One Person. Internationally renowned, his books have been translated into more than thirty-five languages. A Prayer for Owen Meany is his best-selling novel, in every language. John Irving is a dual citizen of the United States and Canada. He lives in Toronto.

Pre-questions:
-Have you read any other books by Irving? What did you think of them?
-Have you watched the film with Robin Williams? If so, what did you think of it?
-Do you have any notions/ideas about this book before diving into it?

July questions:

1) What did you think of the Jenny’s backstory and how it defines Garp’s childhood? What do you think of Jenny as a character?

2) Garp’s adolescent interests (wrestling, sex, fiction) and his teenage boy angst create tension between him and his mother. How so, and what other factors work to create this divide? How do you evaluate Garp’s character at this point in the novel?

3) Describe the trip to Vienna that Jenny and Garp take. In what ways does it convey how unconventional their family is? How is this a milestone for Garp?

4) How does Jenny’s fame over writing “A sexual suspect” affect their lives?

5) What do you think may be the main themes of this work?

6) And finally, how are you enjoying it so far?

discuss!

This is my first time participating in quarterly read discussions, as I just joined the group in June. I did belatedly finish End of the Parade, and I can't say how excited I was to see that this was the next quarterly read. I need something a little more manageable and familiar.

I first read Garp in 1982, when the movie came out and the mass market paperback with Robin Williams was at every checkout lane. I begged my mother to buy it for me. I was a freshman in high school and, in retrospect, I'm shocked she agreed to it. I adored it and subsequently devoured all of his novels. The films I adored not so much. The only decent adaptations of his work are Lonesome Dove and Cider House Rules. His biographical backgrounds (even for minor characters) are so detailed and rich, it's difficult for a traditional film to honor that. I understand there is talk of making Garp into a mini-series and it might be better suited to that format.

I haven't delved into Garp since the 1980s, and I'm happy to be going back in and interested to see how adult me responds to it.

I’m going to try to read this Quarterly Read, it will be my first with this group so hopefully I’ll stick to it

Pre-questions:
-Have you read any other books by Irving? What did you think of them?
I’ve read A Prayer for Owen Meany, I enjoyed it but I felt a bit uncomfortable throughout

-Have you watched the film with Robin Williams? If so, what did you think of it?
No I rarely watch films

-Do you have any notions/ideas about this book before diving into it.
Well, just reading the introduction above tells me this is going to be another crazy ride. I’m looking forward to the eccentric characters, and am quite intrigued by where it’s going to go.

Pre-questions:
-Have you read any other books by Irving? What did you think of them?
-Have you watched the film with Robin Williams? If so, what did you think of it?
-Do you have any notions/ideas about this book before diving into it?

Amazingly, I have not read any books by Irving and coming from New Hampshire that is almost sacrilegious. I have seen the movie Cider House Rules and enjoyed it, but have not seen The World According to Garp. I am looking forward to it as I tend to like eccentric characters.

I have read A Prayer for Owen Meany and Cider House Rules comparatively recently and believe I may have read Hotel New Hampshire and this one at some stage, but I don’t remember well. I THINK I saw the movie, but my recollections are hazy.

I have also read A Widow For One Year - it appears that Irving’s novels are not particularly memorable for me!

Pamela wrote: "I’m going to try to read this Quarterly Read, it will be my first with this group so hopefully I’ll stick to it."

Jane wrote: "This is my first time participating in quarterly read discussions, as I just joined the group in June. I did belatedly finish End of the Parade, and I can't say how excited I was to see that this w..."

Glad you are joining, Jane and Pamela! I absolutely love this book, and Irving's minor characters in general as well.

Amanda wrote: "So, Here's some stuff I came up with. Answering any of Diane's questions or any I put up are all welcome:

Really excited to be hosting this quarterly, I’m a big fan of Irving now thanks to this l..."

These are going to be difficult to answer because my memory of reading this book as a teenager is coloring my perception of it this time around.
1. I always admired Jenny as a character because she did what she wanted to do without thought for convention. She’s smart and hard-working and takes advantage of an opportunity when one presents itself (i.e., Technical Sergeant Garp, the classes at the Steering School, etc). She raises Garp in this fashion; in particular, he is indefatigable in his pursuit of goals (Helen, wrestling, writing). But, like Jenny, he tends to be overly serious. Reading it today, it is striking that Jenny can lead her life the way she does because she is completely asexual and de-sexualized. Perhaps this will change later in her life – I guess I’ll find out.
2. Speaking of sex – the biggest divide between the two would probably be this. Garp has the sexual drive of a normal teenage boy and Jenny struggles to understand lust in general and rails against male lust in particular. I don’t feel like they are divided during his prep school years. That seems to come later, during the Vienna trip but particularly after the publication of Jenny’s book.
3. The fact that an 18-year-old boy goes to Vienna to live with his mother (and that she just takes for granted that she will go with him and that they will share living quarters) is obviously quite unique. Even though they are living together, Jenny is so focused on the book, Garp has a great deal of independence. Moreover, he takes on a “maternal” role – cooking, teaching her their address, the language, guiding her through the city – which establishes how well-suited he will be as a primary caregiver. He also writes his first story, which I quite like. A lot of his work will be autobiographical in nature (The Second Wind of the Cuckold), but this one is not; he essentially creates a nuclear family for himself (as Jenny points out) something he will do with Helen in real life in a few years.
4. Jenny’s fame is a point of division between Garp and his mother. He might be a bit jealous of it because his early books do not achieve this level of success. He also seems to resent that the book makes him famous as well. The people who are drawn to Jenny because of the book will have the biggest impact on the rest of their lives – both the people who admire it and those who hate it.
5. Sex is obviously a big theme in the book. On one end of the extreme, you have Jenny, who seems completely unmotivated it. On the opposite side of that are people like the men who raped Ellen James (and the child molester Garp catches), who are completely motivated by lust. Garp (and Helen) are somewhere in the middle – lust drives them to make some pretty big mistakes, but they are still decent human beings… flawed, like all of us. Gender is obviously another big topic. There are assumptions about the way Jenny should behave based on gender (she should get married, she should only have a child after marriage, etc.). Garp does not want his second child to be a daughter because he recognizes that females are vulnerable to all sorts of dangers, even from a man like him (i.e., the babysitters). With the introduction of Roberta, we have another spin on gender.
6. Really liking it! I’d forgotten a lot, like the inclusion of Garp’s first story. But as it unfolds, everything is coming back to me in a very pleasant fashion.

July questions:
6) And finally, how are you enjoying it so far?

I am going to start with the last question. I don't know why I have hesitated to read Irving before. I think I overheard my parents talking about his books when I was young and assumed they were adult books in a way that was not interesting to me then. (If they had only mentioned sex, I might have had a different reaction). However, the writing is clean and easy and the themes are crisp without telling me what to think. I am really enjoying the book.

1) What did you think of the Jenny’s backstory and how it defines Garp’s childhood? What do you think of Jenny as a character?

I like Jenny although she is may not be a person who I would like in real life as she has little need of others. I am very appreciative of a female fictionalized character who does what she wants without caring about the gender norms at the time. I am ever so slightly miffed that she is asexual and that she is rich. Both these characteristics probably made her more acceptable to the reading public at the time. I also like the fact that Garp takes most of Jenny's behaviors for granted. He is upset about being a key figure in her book but doesn't seem to care about the fact that she confesses how he was conceived.

2) Garp’s adolescent interests (wrestling, sex, fiction) and his teenage boy angst create tension between him and his mother. How so, and what other factors work to create this divide? How do you evaluate Garp’s character at this point in the novel?

Actually, compared to most mother/son relationships during the teenage years, they get along really well.
Garp is just attempting to deal with finding himself and his place in the world while his hormones rage. Jenny doesn't understand lust and she doesn't understand any motivations that are driven by emotional interactions with others. Garp is very narrowly focused like Jenny but he is much more interested in other people and why they do what they do although he tends to investigate these tendencies with prostitutes.

3) Describe the trip to Vienna that Jenny and Garp take. In what ways does it convey how unconventional their family is? How is this a milestone for Garp?

Garp steps outside the college track path which Jenny does not think is strange but for a very driven, focused, well educated man it would have been rather radical. The fact that Jenny assumes she is invited and assumes that they will live together is very odd. Plus Garp takes on the role of interpreter, tour guide, cook, etc. in many ways becoming the adult in their relationship.

4) How does Jenny’s fame over writing “A sexual suspect” affect their lives?

First of all, up until the publication of the book Jenny was largely alone other than her relationship with her son, various professional relationships and a small friendship with Ernie. After the book she is surrounded by people who appear to need her and who she appears to allow to need her. Also, fame sets high expectations on people and Jenny seems to be handling that better than Garp.

5) What do you think may be the main themes of this work?

Themes include society's behavioral norms and how they trigger judgments even before there is any real knowledge to base that judgement on. Sex, as Jane called out, is a big one. Lust is a human characteristic that manifests so differently in all the characters so far. There is also side swipes on education, particularly of the prep school variety and a couple of knocks on the publishing industry so far. I am enjoying the variations on gender norms also.

"I am ever so slightly miffed that she is asexual and that she is rich"

YES! This struck me as well. Like Irving could only conceive of an independent, active woman if he took away her sexuality.

Exactly.

Jane wrote: ""I am ever so slightly miffed that she is asexual and that she is rich"

YES! This struck me as well. Like Irving could only conceive of an independent, active woman if he took away her sexuality."

This is an interesting take from both of you that I can appreciate on some levels because yes, I suppose it would make sense to have a rebellious, independent woman who is very sexually liberated, and that would have been a cool equally valid character choice as well... but....

I was the opposite of miffed myself when reading this as an asexual woman who is also a big advocate for women's liberation including sex positive feminism. There is so little actual representation of asexual women in anything (as opposed to 'frigid' or 'chaste' characters who are not genuinely asexual and are usually used as qualities to out down female characters), that I was really pleased with this, and that she is someone who is actively invested in forms of liberation (including sexual) for other women that don't happen to directly impact her,

Except, it kind of totally does. They way openly sexual women are demonized is often reversely applied to asexual women who are often medicalized and harassed as well. I have enough experience being told I was mentally ill and needed that fixed for men's benefit, that I was inhuman and cold when I'm not, or that I 'hadn't fallen on the right dick yet" to know how disgusting it can get. And this kind of harassment actually does have the same source as that applied to openly sexual women: that you aren't correctly falling in line with the expectation that you can be one man's property. Women who both are active agents in the sexual market- as well as women who remove themselves from it- are treated as traitors to gender gender roles, and I think Jenny being asexual and an ally to women who very much aren't is a cool radical approach myself. You can be sex positive and the amount of sex you want to have just happens to be none.

well said!

thanks :)

Yes, I admit I did not think of it in that way. Thank you for sharing and making me see a different perspective.

Gail wrote: "Yes, I admit I did not think of it in that way. Thank you for sharing and making me see a different perspective."

<3 appreciate the comment, Gail.

I'm just kind of glad this book discussion opened this topic up: Jenny being asexual was a huge thing for me when I first read it :)

Pre-questions:
-Have you read any other books by Irving? What did you think of them? I have only read Cider House Rules which I loved, 5 stars.

-Have you watched the film with Robin Williams? If so, what did you think of it? I don't think I have seen the movie but I will watch it after I finish the book.

-Do you have any notions/ideas about this book before diving into it? I do not have any notions but based on the discussion thread it sounds interesting.

July questions:

1) What did you think of Jenny’s backstory and how it defines Garp’s childhood? What do you think of Jenny as a character?
I liked the account of her alienation from her family and their values, and admire her independence. The story of Garp’s conception is rather disturbing with its sexual exploitation of a brain damaged man, but I can see how it is used to illustrate Jenny’s absolute certainty about her unconventional view of sex and relationships, and this then feeds into the way the difference on the subject of sex leaves a gulf between her and Garp despite their closeness in other ways.

2) Garp’s adolescent interests (wrestling, sex, fiction) and his teenage boy angst create tension between him and his mother. How so, and what other factors work to create this divide? How do you evaluate Garp’s character at this point in the novel?
Garp is pretty much an ordinary teenage boy, dealing with raging hormones and growing up in a rather weird and isolated environment. He is a bit humourless and literal, but on the whole he gets on with his mother and is quite kind and tolerant towards her. Jenny’s attitude towards the other people at the school, especially the Percy’s, also emphasises the gulf between them, she sees them as a dangerous influence.

3) Describe the trip to Vienna that Jenny and Garp take. In what ways does it convey how unconventional their family is? How is this a milestone for Garp?
Jenny lives a restricted life in Vienna, staying within a small area and spending time writing - just as in the school, she controls the limits of her experience and detaches herself from her environment. Garp on the other hand broadens his mind and his experience, and also takes care of his mother. The meeting with the prostitutes shows how unconventional they are - the women are highly suspicious of Jenny!

4) How does Jenny’s fame over writing “A sexual suspect” affect their lives?
It serves to give Jenny a new way of life as she begins to get involved in her feminist activism and this gives Garp the space to marry Helen and start writing himself. On the other hand, Garp’s writing is always judged by critics with relation to his mother’s.

5) What do you think may be the main themes of this work?
Sex and lust, particularly related to societal norms. The role and experiences of the writer.

6) And finally, how are you enjoying it so far?
At first I found it very similar to the start of Owen Meany and was a bit irritated by that, but I’m now enjoying it very much. I thought the scenario of Garp’s second novel was hilariously absurd, and I like Helen as a foil for Garp.

Pre-questions:
-Have you read any other books by Irving? What did you think of them?

I have read The Cider House Rules and recall that I quite liked it.

-Have you watched the film with Robin Williams? If so, what did you think of it?

I did watch it, but it was so long ago, I would only recall snippets of it. I also remember watching Hotel New Hampshire at about the same time.

-Do you have any notions/ideas about this book before diving into it?

As mentioned in the previous answer, I only recall snippets of the movie and would probably be unable to remember the themes.

1) What did you think of the Jenny’s backstory and how it defines Garp’s childhood? What do you think of Jenny as a character?

She is very independent, disciplined, somewhat stubborn, devoted, maybe a bit overprotective, and asexual. I guess it could have been irritating and reassuring at the same time to have her around. She effectively built a cocoon for Garp to grow up in. Hence, some of the naivety displayed by Garp in his childhood and teenage years.

2) Garp’s adolescent interests (wrestling, sex, fiction) and his teenage boy angst create tension between him and his mother. How so, and what other factors work to create this divide? How do you evaluate Garp’s character at this point in the novel?

Jenny could not fully understand Garp’s interest, especially his lusty tendencies. As Gail mentioned, Garp was more curious about the outside world (or others) than Jenny Fields was. They still had a good mother/son relationship, but tensions would grow over time around these interests and other issues.

3) Describe the trip to Vienna that Jenny and Garp take. In what ways does it convey how unconventional their family is? How is this a milestone for Garp?

For starters, let’s just say that it is odd to have a mother that encourages and allows you to visit prostitutes to deal with a lust that she cannot understand. Yet, while Garp was really keen to discover everything that Vienna had to offer, Jenny was keener to stay at the pension and spend her time writing. This trip marks the passage to adulthood for Garp as he undertakes most of the domestic tasks and is confronted with adult experiences (e.g. the death of Charlotte).

4) How does Jenny’s fame over writing “A sexual suspect” affect their lives?

Jenny attracts a lot of attention that she does not necessarily want and tries to avoid the spotlights. Garp at first is quite annoyed by the popularity of the book as a lot of it is about his own life with Jenny. His mother’s fame also burdens him until he finally write his first stories/novels, as he wants to have his own renown instead of being identified as Jenny Fields’ son.

5) What do you think may be the main themes of this work?

The novel seemed to focus on people who were living their lives outside of the conventional norms of the 50s and 60s, with a specific concern on sexual habits which were not mainstream (or were taboo).

6) And finally, how are you enjoying it so far?

To be fair, I have already finished the novel! However, at that point of the novel, I was quite enjoying its quirkiness.

Glad to see a bunch bunch of folks have gotten into this one. For people who are ready for August questions, here they are whenever you get ~2/3 through:


1) What do you make of the Ellen Jamesians and Jenny’s women’s home? How do you evaluate Garp’s response to it?

2) Many have noted Irving’s propensity to write compassionate narratives of marginalized groups including women, sex workers, People of Colour, and transgender people, how do you perceive the messages around this in the novel? How successful do you think the narrative is at achieving this? If these are some of the main ideas, why does the novel choose to make Garp (a straight, white, cis, nondisabled man) the protagonist?

3) Garp becomes a family man by this part in the book. Describe his marriage to Helen and their family life. Why might he have chosen this route?

4) Several tragedies hit the Garp family throughout the book. Which ones have you read at this point, and how do they affect Garp/the story?

5) How are you finding the book at this stage?

Discuss!

July questions:

1) What did you think of the Jenny’s backstory and how it defines Garp’s childhood? What do you think of Jenny as a character?

I like Jenny as a character, she is so practical. She is really into long term goals, she chose to have a baby sans husband and she took all the classes in preparation for Garp’s schooling. The issue of fashion and the nurses uniform is comical.

2) Garp’s adolescent interests (wrestling, sex, fiction) and his teenage boy angst create tension between him and his mother. How so, and what other factors work to create this divide? How do you evaluate Garp’s character at this point in the novel?

As the mother of a son, there is always going to be angst between mother and son. Garp went through normal teenage feelings, the need for acceptance, he just wanted to fit in with his peers.

3) Describe the trip to Vienna that Jenny and Garp take. In what ways does it convey how unconventional their family is? How is this a milestone for Garp?

Jenny is way too involved in Garp’s life and decisions. I can’t imagine any son wants to talk about his sex life with his mother.

4) How does Jenny’s fame over writing “A sexual suspect” affect their lives?

Garp is the college student and supposed to be a writer but his mother beats him to the punch and becomes famous. Garp remains in Jenny’s shadow.

5) What do you think may be the main themes of this work?

Feminism. There are many strong women in the book and they are all different. Jenny, Charolette and Helen.

6) And finally, how are you enjoying it so far?

I love John Irvings writing so I am enjoying very much.

August questions


1) What do you make of the Ellen Jamesians and Jenny’s women’s home? How do you evaluate Garp’s response to it?

"But Jenny had finally admitted her disapproval of what they had done - perhaps only to Garp. "They're making victims of themselves," Jenny had said, "and yet that's the same thing they're angry at men for doing to them. Why don't they just take a vow of silence, or never speak in a man's presence?" Jenny said. "It's not logical: to maim yourself to make a point."

2) Many have noted Irving’s propensity to write compassionate narratives of marginalized groups including women, sex workers, People of Colour, and transgender people, how do you perceive the messages around this in the novel? How successful do you think the narrative is at achieving this? If these are some of the main ideas, why does the novel choose to make Garp (a straight, white, cis, nondisabled man) the protagonist?

I think Irving depicts current society; we have straight, white, males and women, sex workers and transgender people. In this story he put a positive spin on Charolette the sex worker, a single woman raising a child alone and Roberta a transgender.

3) Garp becomes a family man by this part in the book. Describe his marriage to Helen and their family life. Why might he have chosen this route?

Garp mirrored his mother and took on the role to be over involved in raising a family. Helen also made it quite clear that chid rearing was to be Garp’s job.

4) Several tragedies hit the Garp family throughout the book. Which ones have you read at this point, and how do they affect Garp/the story?

The big one I read was the car crash tragedy, I saw this coming a mile away. Helen and Garp made poor decisions.

5) How are you finding the book at this stage?

As the novel goes along, I feel more frustrated with Garp as he has gone above and beyond at being a protective parent. His double standard with infidelity is also infuriating. I am really enjoying the book especially the stories within a story, I feel I am learning more of how Garp feels by reading his writing.

1) What do you make of the Ellen Jamesians and Jenny’s women’s home? How do you evaluate Garp’s response to it?

Garp perceives them to be too radical in their practical application of their theory, i.e. he doesn't think they need to cut out their tongues, however, by mid way through the book (where I am now), he gets a good dose of understanding why not communicating vocally may be preferable to communicating rage and/or despair and that there are other methods of communicating.

2) Many have noted Irving’s propensity to write compassionate narratives of marginalized groups including women, sex workers, People of Colour, and transgender people, how do you perceive the messages around this in the novel? How successful do you think the narrative is at achieving this? If these are some of the main ideas, why does the novel choose to make Garp (a straight, white, cis, nondisabled man) the protagonist?

Irving sets his main character, Garp, off against the stereotypical male in that he isn't the primary financial support for the household. His being straight, white, cis, non disabled however is caricatured in his baby sitter lust and his sexual interest in Mrs. Ralph.
I am loving Roberta and I do think that Irving shows compassion through this character but I am not sure that a transgender person would love this depiction as it seems a bit too extreme and stereotypical plus a bit too stuck in simplified expectations. For example, Roberta feels she is not being feminine when she wants to bodyslam someone who is putting her down. Why shouldn't a women feel the need to bodyslam someone? Maybe they would love to be depicted at all, as again, in the 70's, they were rarely even visible in literature.

3) Garp becomes a family man by this part in the book. Describe his marriage to Helen and their family life. Why might he have chosen this route?

Garp is a very overprotective father and he takes Helen a bit for granted although he has gotten past the baby sitter stage. On the other hand he is unique for this era in that he is the house husband, principal caretaker, cook and NOT the principal breadwinner. His kids just think he is weird.

4) Several tragedies hit the Garp family throughout the book. Which ones have you read at this point, and how do they affect Garp/the story?

I have gotten to the auto accident which was in so many ways foreshadowed and yet I still felt my heart give when I realized what happened to the children. At this stage Helen and Garp are attempting to forgive themselves and forgive each other.

5) How are you finding the book at this stage? I was getting tired of Garp and his limitations, to be honest, and I was a bit tired of Irving's playing with the stereotypical (I suspect it was more outrageous during the 70's) but then the novel turned again and I am engaged once more.

1) What do you make of the Ellen Jamesians and Jenny’s women’s home? How do you evaluate Garp’s response to it?
Garp has the standard expected approach - he doesn’t think one should voluntarily rob oneself of an ability or asset to make a point. It seems to be a humorous take on “cutting off your nose to spite your face”. However, I like Gail’s point that it raises wider issues about communication and how to deal with anger and pain.

2) Many have noted Irving’s propensity to write compassionate narratives of marginalized groups including women, sex workers, People of Colour, and transgender people, how do you perceive the messages around this in the novel? How successful do you think the narrative is at achieving this? If these are some of the main ideas, why does the novel choose to make Garp (a straight, white, cis, nondisabled man) the protagonist?
I think Irvine uses caricature and exaggeration to a great extent, and that can have the effect of making the characters (particularly Roberta) a stereotype for people to laugh at. For example, Roberta holding Jenny in the air at the airport. Yet at the same time he adds compassion and makes these characters visible to readers, and the other characters who know them best don’t see them as weird or funny, which is a powerful message. I feel he’s probably most successful in this approach with women generally, where he has a wider range of types and expectations to play with and undermine. Garp himself undermines gender expectations in his role, but often behaves in a stereotypical male way.

3) Garp becomes a family man by this part in the book. Describe his marriage to Helen and their family life. Why might he have chosen this route?
Garp has had to cope with his mother’s sharing of his unconventional birth and upbringing, he is embarrassed by it and unsurprisingly wants a more traditional family life. Yet at the same time he subverts this by being a ‘homemaker’, like his image of the ideal mother. Helen is more forceful about maintaining her career and Garp is happy to accommodate it.

4) Several tragedies hit the Garp family throughout the book. Which ones have you read at this point, and how do they affect Garp/the story?
The automobile accident mixes the absurd and the really horrific. I also liked the irony that the over-cautious Garp (who focuses on unlikely events) actually causes the accident through his carelessness in basic road safety. The tragedy affects Garp’s relationship with Helen, it brings him back into living with his mother, and it triggers a new and rather bitter phase in his writing - it’s the accident which (much to his disgust) can be milked for popularity and sales.

5) How are you finding the book at this stage?
I’m finding it very readable and like the writing. I’m not keen on Garp’s stories being included. I feel sometimes Irving is trying too hard to be outrageous and that can undermine his messages, but as entertainment I’m enjoying it.

I'm enjoying people's responses so far, and seeing that many people have already put their reviews up, I thought I'd put up the final questions now, for folks who want to answer:

September Questions

1) How do Garp’s views evolve throughout the novel, and what role do the women in his life play in this?

2) The Ellen Jamesians have a complex portrayal in the book, from sympathetic victims, to misplaced extremists exploiting a young woman’s tragedy. How did you feel about them after reading the whole book ? How did you feel about the appearance of Ellen James herself?

3) In the intro to the version I read, Irving makes the point that when he first wrote the book he was on more on Garp’s side, then later he was on Jenny’s, but he was always on Roberta’s side. Discuss what this means, and do you agree? Why is Roberta’s story perhaps timelier than ever?

4) Are there any quotes from the book that stayed with or stood out to you?

5) What is the “Under Toad” and how does this idea manifest in the novel?

6) How do you feel about Garp’s fate in the end, and what point (if any) do you think it’s trying to convey?

7) Did you have a favorite character throughout the novel (and why is it Roberta? I kid…but she was my favorite character), or one you related to the most?

8) And finally, what did you think of the book? Would you keep it on the list?


Bonus (end):
-If you have seen the movie, how did you feel about the narrative differences between the book and film?
- If you have read other books by Irving previously, did you notice any common themes between them?

The book definitely should stay on the list. I enjoyed it thoroughly. I thought Roberta was an exceptional character, particularly for the time this was written, and I could understand why Irving would always be on her side. She was generous and empathetic. She was strong emotionally as well as physically and not afraid of that strength. Sometimes that strength manifested in being able to be seen as vulnerable.

I looked at the trailer for the movie and realised that I had seen it. All I could remember was a scene on a lawn in front of a huge weatherboard house. I think the idea of Roberta being transsexual completely eluded me at the time.
1. Jenny was an independent woman and her childraising practices were idiosyncratic - but not unbelievable for the time. People were experimenting with taking children off grid to be self sufficient in hippy communes, so bringing Garp up in a private school was essentially mainstream. The story of how Garp got into wrestling was hilarious. She was rather insouciant about his esapade on the roof.
2. Jenny was not troubled by attraction to sex and so she found Garp's adolescent yearnings inexplicable, which is an amusing take on something which most parents worry over. Garp is typical of a sensitive but clueless youngster.
3. The unconventionality was the encounters with prostitutes, Jenny's disregard for the milieu and Garp's resoursefulness, which helps him to mature, really in spite of Jenny, not because of her influence.
4. Jenny makes a lot of money, becomes famous, which happens to Garp too, which he rather resnets because he has ideas about becoming a writer too.
5. Gender identity, unconventional family structures, writing as an influence on one's life, and feminism.
6. I love the absurdity of the story, which, while making the book very entertaining, also provides social commentary'

1. I thought the Ellen Jamesians extreme, but people were setting themselves alight to make a point elsewhere, so the inability to speak was, in fact, a powerful metaphor for their place in society. Jenny's home for women in need seemed to be an admirable undertaking. Garth came to appreciate what she was doing.
2. The memorable characters were all women: Jenny the asexual; Roberta the transgender ex-football player; Helen the breadwinner and Charlotte the prostitute. All were amusing, if not absurd, but all were depicted as complicated, well rounded characters, nothing like stereotypes. Garth is the antithesis to all of them. A stand in for Irving, perhaps?
3. Garp is unusual because he is the homemaker and child rearer, while working in his writing. He falls into this role rather than instigating it, but he is not resentful of Helen's work and his responsibilities, although he does not take them seriously despite being overly anxious about his boys.
4. The car accident is truly horrifying, but also hilarious because we don't find out how tragic it was immediately.

1. All of the above women were powerful influences in Garp's life. His mother's choices challenged gender stereotypes; Helen was independent, but resilient enough to cope with Garp's infidelities, and when she was unfaithful herself, Garp became more insightful about the dangers of adultery; Roberta helped Garp accept people, whoever they were. He became more empathetic to others.
2. The appearance of Ellen James, herself, who disapproved of other women cutting out their tongues in response to what happened to her, was nevertheless a symbol of strength and resilience in response to sexual violence.
3. Roberta 's story is timely because of the current controversies about transgenders' participation in female sports.
4. I listened so quotes eluded me.
5. The shocking death of Garp emphasised the uncertainty of existence, which was a major theme.

My memories of the book are starting to fade now but I’ll pick out a few of the questions
- Garp is shaped by the women in his life because he only really has female influences. The male characters are vague and transitory (like the headmaster). He kind of pushes back against them, but in the end his outlook is moulded by their presence in his life. However, I also think a lot of his growth and finding empathy resulted from the loss of Walt, and his realisation that he couldn’t control everything

- I liked Ellen James, I could see her frustration at her actions being taken over by a movement where she had little in common with many of them. It was fitting that she found a place in the wider family

- I didn’t have a favourite character but I found all of them interesting. Roberta was wise and caring, in many ways more motherly to Garp than Jenny (Jenny was probably the only character I disliked). Roberta’s story may resonate now because of the current focus on transgender rights, but Irving seems to take a more humanistic and less ideological approach to the topic.

- Garp’s death was absurd and seems to emphasise the random nature of life, similar to Jenny’s death and the accidents. It’s also another example of how people misinterpret events - Bainbridge acts on her own skewed version of what happened to her sister, just as the Ellen Jamesians distort her actions for their own personal agendas.

- I enjoyed the book but am not sure it needs to be on the list, It was very similar to A Prayer for Owen Meany in many ways. I haven’t seen the film.