The Mystery, Crime, and Thriller Group discussion

Hi, all.

Here's a thread (with spoilers) for discussion of The Last Time I Lied by Riley Sager. Ted will moderate.

Friends:

I really look forward to reading The Last Time I Lied with you. This is the Spoiler Thread for the book discussion. Since I am only about 100 pages in so far, I won’t be reading this Thread in detail right now. I will be back with you soon. Happy reading!

Really a good book. I gave it 5 stars

Hi Marty. That is exciting to hear. I’m only a third of the way through. Since it is so early in the group read, the liveliest discussion is in the Non-Spoiler Thread. You can find that thread at https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/.... We would love to have you join us.

I enjoyed this. I thought it was a fun read. Four stars from me.

Hi Lora. That’s good news about the book. Hoping to finish over this holiday weekend. Welcome to the group read.

Hoping to finish this weekend. I’m about 70% done at the moment. I’m rooting for a plot twist as I feel it’s been kind of predictable so far.

Whew. just finished. I think it's going to be a 5-star for me. Super excited to read more Sager.

That’s great news Rachel! I’ve got about 40 pages, so I should be on this thread in the next day or two to ask some prompts. I’ve been wondering from the beginning why they would subject Emma to the same exact cabin unless the family/Franny is up to nefarious stuff. See you soon.

I just finished and was very pleased overall. Michelle, I hope you get that plot twist you were hoping for. I invite everyone to ask questions or suggest some prompts for discussion about the book. Here is my first question/prompt for the community, which I alluded to in my last post but didn’t resolve by the end. Early on in the book, it just didn’t ring true to me that “the family” (or Franny, since she was in charge) would inhumanely subject Emma to staying in the same exact cabin as before. Unless, of course, there was a family cabal out to get her or some other unexplained reason. Am I missing something? Did this stand out to anyone else?

Yeah, Ted. That was strange and was really never fully resolved. Perhaps Chet had something to do with it? I mean, that was never explicitly stated, but that's the only way it makes sense for them to shove her into that same cabin. We're definitely left to guess, though.

Ted wrote: "I just finished and was very pleased overall. Michelle, I hope you get that plot twist you were hoping for. I invite everyone to ask questions or suggest some prompts for discussion about the book...."

Oh yes, that was an unexpected twist and I loved it!

Just finished. I don't think it will be a 5 star for me, but that is because I am VERY picky about the 5 stars I give. That being said, it DID surprise me at the end, so I'll have to think about it - maybe it deserves the 5 stars :)

My logical brain wonders how a 16 year old girl could vanish and survive with a new identity. Do we think her parents were involved? Like, did they take their settlement money and start a new life for Vivian? Also, I wonder if Emma was truly hallucinating some of the times that she saw Vivian? Maybe she actually did see her over the years.

Overall I really did enjoy this book and am starting Lock Every Door today. It is rare I think when you read and love these types of books to be truly surprised with a twist and I really was with this one. Ok, it'll be a 5 star from me too :)

Just finished reading it. Was surprised by the twist on the last three pages of the story. So far, I’ve liked all Riley Sager books I’ve read.

Michelle, those are good points you make about Vivian’s disappearance and independence as a 16 year old. I guess we sometimes have to suspend our disbelief and just enjoy the story. I find that harder to do with some books than others.

Hi Julie (my sweet wife). So glad you are on Goodreads and in this group. That last chapter was my favorite of the book, and I am sure I will have some more comments/prompts about it later.

Michelle, I also think those are good points.

Vivian does seem extraordinarily savvy for a 16-year-old. Later, I suppose such a savvy person could run rings around her neglectful inattentive parents, whom she did not have much attachment to or respect for because of how they treated her feelings of grief as inappropriate emotion.

I think Emma did hallucinate seeing Vivian often since she saw her as she looked at 16 years old, not the red hair or more mature woman. Emma is shown as an extremely mentally fragile person throughout the book.

Sager took pains making Vivian both smart and clever -- two very different qualities -- including her dalliance with the wild life and some experience with fake IDs. Where a 16-year-old would have gathered enough money to pull it all off and have the good life afterward is a bit hazier.

I don't have issues with assuming Chet set it up that Emma would stay in Dogwood. My question is, why did Vivian come back to the cabin? It's an important plot point, serving to draw Emma deeper into the mystery through guilt, but I'm not sure someone smart and clever would have done it with all the other dominoes in place to assume a new identity and life. Maybe she wanted to make amends with Emma, but again, why, when she'd worked to alienate her? Then again, her final communications with Emma were not alienating, so maybe that's what Sager was implying, still it strikes me as unmotivated except as a plot point.

That said, this is a 5-star thriller for me. I've been lucky enough so far this summer to have two books pretty much grab my lapels and drag me along, and this is one of them, a neat, efficient little thriller, even better than Final Girls.

Wow. Reading this book was like watching a tennis match. I felt the author did a great job developing the characters. All the red herrings kept me interested to the end.

I’m now reading “The House Across the Lake“

5 stars from me

Conni, I hope you enjoy The House Across the Lake. I’m getting Riley Sager’s new book today, and I think it will be my next read since another Goodreads group is reading it this month.

Michelle, aPriL and Randy, I think you all read books a lot closer (and better) than I do. One of the questions about Vivian’s parents I still linger on: what happened to the lawsuit money they got from Fanny? Was that a source Vivian was able to draw from? If so, the parents are every bit as culpable as their daughter. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree…

We have talked a lot about Vivian, a relatively small character. A writer has done a good job when they have created a memorable and mysterious character. Unless I missed something, the only time the adult Vivian shows up for certain is in the final pages. I’m not sure who Emma saw at the present-day cabin.

Wasn't that Emma's phantom-Vivian, the one she's seen intermittently since her breakdown after the disappearance?

And I agree that Vivian is memorable and maybe all the more so for being off stage throughout most of the book. The impact she had on Emma was out-sized for the brevity of their relationship and Emma's memories border on hero-worship, in no little part because someone older, more sophisticated and self-confident had finally paid attention to her. Well, that and severe trauma. I think Sager imparts that deftly.

Trying to think of an analogous character to Vivian. Maybe Laura in the early part of Laura, or Rebecca in Rebecca (maybe Sager should have named the novel Vivian), or maybe the Thing in the 1951 The Thing (From Another World) (that's not entirely a joke).

Lol Randy. Great comparisons. The only one I thought of was Hannibal Lecter’s haunting of Clarice Starling, but that sounded dumb so I wasn’t going to say it. I think the Rebecca comparison is spot on.

I agree the Rebecca comparison is a good one, Randy! Hannibal is also very good! The Thing - definitely, too!

I just finished. 4 stars as the beginning did drag on but the latter part of the book had the twists we mystery thrillers are seeking. Didn’t see Chet as the villain who locked away Sasha, Krystal, and Miranda in the “Hobbit House “ cellar. Also did he truly want to kill Emma at the cove where the Peaceful Valley Home was submerged ? I think he did if the Detective had not shot the oar out. Vivian was physically present at Emma’s gallery because Emma recalled too many details about her new appearance, also Vivian said “Vivian died fifteen years ago.” Meaning she has assumed a new persona. Delightful ending!

I just finished it, and it was a good 5 stars for me. The feel, the setting, and the thrill aspect were superb. Though the plot was wafer thin, he did a great job in keeping our interests through. This was the best Riley Sager I've read. He's closed all the loops.
I have to say, though, I couldn't like the characters much. Emma and Vivian were totally dislikable. I have hoped Theo would get a larger role to play, so I'm disappointed in how much involved he is. After all, this would be his redemption, too. Chet's involvement was a good surprise and something I didn't see coming.
I really enjoyed the book. Thanks for the reco.

This just came available for me in the Libby app, I'd forgotten that I'd put on hold to read with this group. Will read now and come back for the tea!!

I didn't find either Emma or Vivian dislikable. I thought Sager did a good job of giving the reasons for their decisions; however arguable those decisions were, both girls were understandable. Emma wasn't in a great place mentally or emotionally at 13 and what happened scarred deep. Vivian was willful, to say the least, but also scarred by parental neglect and losing the one person she seems to have truly loved.

I was kind of touched that Vivian, in spite of seeming self-absorbed, also seemed to genuinely like Emma, enough so to try to teach her some emotional survival skills. Although, I question some of her tactics.

I’m now reading “Home Before Dark “ also by Riley Sager which is about a haunted manor house that a family fled from in the middle of the night. I guess I like this author, thanks for introducing him to me.

Riley Sager is new to me as well. I’ve put a hold on other of his novels, too.

Home Before Dark was the first Riley Sager book I read. I liked it a lot. It was 4 stars from me as well.

It's got the creeps, but so many incidents unexplained. Though I've given it 4 stars, it left me unsatisfied.

This was a great read! Riley Sager just doesn’t disappoint. The story format had me racing through the now and slowing down to soak up all the then details. The historical info on women being committed to mental institutions for not following social norms or pissing someone off had me fascinated and angry. The fragility of Emma’s mental state, traumatized and trying to shape a life, and how people “played” with that once they found out. Things never really change though do they? So many great ideas flowing through this book.
Still absorbing it and the messages hidden within. Great read!

I read the book and I really liked it

This was my first Riley Sager book, I loved it! 5 stars for me! I really like how we have to question Emma as the narrator given her mental health, kept having to go back and forth whether she is a reliable narrator; I deem she is! I wonder what happens to Mindy now that Chet has to do some time? I also don't think the answer of Lottie not being in the photo that Becca took of Emma and the entire camp at the lake was answered? Although I could've missed that! I loved the ending and that Vivien told two truths and lie and the lie being that Vivien died 15 years ago...