Hugo & Nebula Awards: Best Novels discussion
Contemporary H/N Talk (Archives)
>
Hugo 2023 ballot
Mod
Mod
There's a higher percentage of Chinese names in both editor categories. Which is interesting but maybe logical? It's more of an insider industry category, and doesn't usually receive a lot of nominations, so if people involved in the Chinese SF industry had some consensus around who was award-worthy, it would be easier to cross the threshold there.
Mod
How do you all feel about the list? Only one of my novel nominations made it (Nona obviously haha). Most of the novel list are things I'm not at all interested in. Just not my style. Legend and Lattes doesn't sound like what I go for. Scalzi, Kowal, and Morena Garcia just don't really work for me in general. I read Nettle and Bone and didn't care for it. I don't think any of these are bad books, but they are pretty much all the type of books I don't care for.
Kalin wrote: "My gripe: I can't #&(*@ believe The Daughter of Doctor Moreau made the novel shortlist but Babel did not. It's yet another year where the list of the supposedly best SFF in the world feels quite un..."I very seriously wonder if nominators assumed Babel would make it and used their slots for something else. That aside, I actually didn't much for Babel. I'm disappointed but not surprised that Goliath didn't make it.
Kalin wrote: "My gripe: I can't #&(*@ believe The Daughter of Doctor Moreau made the novel shortlist but Babel did not. It's yet another year where the list of the supposedly best SFF in the world feels quite un..."I'm also voting Nona (actually, I probably won't vote this year). But it is sad because I feel like Nona is the weakest in the series so far.
Mod
I know that SFF Hugo-nominating fandom doesn't exactly fit broader SFF reviewers, but let's check number of reviews of nominees here and on Amazon
The Daughter of Doctor Moreau, by Silvia Moreno-Garcia (Del Rey) 3.60 21,706 ratings 3,510 reviews Az: 4.1 out of 5 stars 1,620 ratings
The Kaiju Preservation Society, by John Scalzi (Tor Books) 4.02 37,648 ratings 6,301 reviews Az: 4.4 out of 5 stars 9,024 ratings
Legends & Lattes, by Travis Baldree (Tor Books) 4.25 92,554 ratings 19,315 reviews Az: 4.6 out of 5 stars 14,310 ratings
Nona the Ninth, by Tamsyn Muir (Tordotcom) 4.37 26,156 ratings 4,503 reviews Az: 4.5 out of 5 stars 3,607 ratings
Nettle & Bone, by T. Kingfisher (Tor Books) 4.19 37,367 ratings 6,598 reviews Az: 4.6 out of 5 stars 4,585 ratings
The Spare Man, by Mary Robinette Kowal (Tor Books) 3.88 3,888 ratings 847 reviews Az: 4.3 out of 5 stars 852 ratings
Babel, or the Necessity of Violence: An Arcane History of the Oxford Translators' Revolution 4.26 110,154 ratings 23,321 reviews Az: 4.4 out of 5 stars 6,802 ratings
I started Legends & Lattes but didn’t get very far. It just seemed like a light piece that punched the right fan buttons.I haven’t read The Daughter of Doctor Moreau; I will now. I think Moreno-Garcia is good and she may have done something interesting with the Moreau “trope”.
Scalzi is always smart and readable but reviews suggest this is one of his lighter efforts. I’ll go ahead and read it.
I read the first of the Muir “Ninth” series. I found it interesting but there were aspects of it I didn’t care for and I haven’t read the sequels.
I read and enjoyed “Nettle and Bone” but I wouldn’t call it award calibre.
I liked The Calculating Stars ok but I haven’t read any other Kowal novels. I guess I’ll give this one a shot.
Generally, this seems like a ballot of fairly lightweight crowd-pleasers.
Mod
Somehow I haven't read *any* of the novels or novellas this year, so I can't have an opinion. But I do think it's striking how fully Tor dominates those categories. I feel like Tor has a pretty distinctive niche/style, and judging by their titles and blurbs, all of these works fit into it pretty neatly. Not sure what that says about the state of the genre / the awards. Someone who's actually read some of these should set me right if necessary!
Oops, out of novels and novellas I've read 1 - I think I never had such a bad percentage. None of the novels I cared for made the list.
Mod
I've read all but Nona and Kowal's novel and my feeling was that all of them were quite readable, but none award-worthy. For me, I should think about re-reading an award-worthy book, even if in a very distant future
I've read all the novellas except Into the Riverlands (this series just isn't for me) and the Wayward Child (series also not for me). It is a decent list. I read 16(?) eligible novellas and (except for 3-5 that I didn't like) they were all good...without any standouts. They were all very decent this year. I didn't really have a favorite except for a very random self-published novella I ended up liking best of all (and that obviously wasn't going to be nominated.
Ogres was british published first right? Rebellion? Might get picked and reprinted by Tor, but I think it was not edited by them. It does not fit the Tor mould anyway, not the in the sense the Chambers, the Mcguire and even the Harrow would. I loved Ogres, I thought it memorable for a bunch of reasons and is IMO "proper" sf, I hope it wins.About the novels, I only read Legends and Lattes, and I really really hope it does not win...
Hoping the chinese short story nominees get translated and reprinted.
Ogres is the only novella I’ve read. I agree it’s first rate and a worthy nominee.
Mod
It's a limited edition run of the Solaris Tchaikovsky novella series, so I don't think they will be printing more any time soon. It was also available in NA so I don't think Tor would get involved either. It'll be available in the voter's package though (and libraries, etc.).
I haven't read it yet but anticipate that it'll probably take my vote, based on reading Tchaikovsky in the past compared to the rest of the novella ballot. I agree with Kristen though, 2022 was not a year for standout novellas.
I think you will like it Kalin, when you do get it! It is incredibly epic for a novella and it's very different from the other novellas on the list which I have read (and I can guess already it is very different from the McGuire which I have not read and likely never will)
Mod
I read two, and for 30 pages of the first novella, I thought I was going to really like it, but what she decided to do with both novellas ended up being, well, twee and kind of random.If you like Tchaikovsky, this year's novella of his is also a take on children and Portal fantasy and McGuire's books were in mind reading it, Tchaikovsky nuked the twee out of the idea ...
Mod
Shrek III: Legends & Lattes was ok, but it was clearly just a good time softie that you can listen to in an afternoon.
Had any of us picked up on The Spare Man? It feels like a political choice; the reviews are middling and it feels like another softie. One reviewer describes it as "disgustingly fluffy."
I didn't read Moreau yet, I held off to see what this group thought. No one was over the top about it, but more so disappointed, so I skipped it. I'll read it now, but personally, Moreno-Garcia's books fall short for me.
Nettle & Bone was ok but not particularly memorable.
Nona was a continuation of a series that people either loved or hated. I haven't read it, but that's not a good sign to me.
That pretty much leaves Kaiju as the only legit sci-fi book on the list. I'm glad Scalzi got the nomination, I think he deserved it, even if it's not his best. To me, it felt like a return to form after the chaotic Collapsing Empire series. In this weak field, I'd hope for this to win, but I think one of the fluff pieces will win.
Oleksandr wrote: "At least on those two rating sites Babel beats ANY of the nominees, so I wonder if the Chinese Big Bro decided to intervene..."That is a really interesting theory. I didn't finish the book. What problem would the Chinese government have with it?
Mod
Actually, it was a little too pro-Chinese official history narrative, I guess I even mentioned it in my review, e.g. the protagonist uses not his native Cantonese but more official high court dialect. It is worth mentioning that the difference between these two in speech on the level of between German and English. I guess if bBig Bro theory is true then it aims not against the novel, but against the author, maybe she mentioned Uygurs favorably somewhere
coming in a bit late here, my thoughts below: Best Novel
The Daughter of Doctor Moreau, by Silvia Moreno-Garcia (Del Rey) - I don't usually like what she writes so I didn't read it.
The Kaiju Preservation Society, by John Scalzi (Tor Books) This was fun but I wasn't hooked or particularly awed.
Legends & Lattes, by Travis Baldree (Tor Books) Again, a fun, easy read but that's it.
Nona the Ninth, by Tamsyn Muir (Tordotcom) This was great, crazy confusing at times, but such crazy a** storyline that it would get my vote for sure.
Nettle & Bone, by T. Kingfisher (Tor Books) Not my cup of tea, had to bump it to 2x speed to finish it.
The Spare Man, by Mary Robinette Kowal (Tor Books) Haven't heard much about this or read it.
Best Novella
Even Though I Knew the End, by C.L. Polk (Tordotcom) I liked this one a lot, hoping to read more in the series.
Into the Riverlands, by Nghi Vo (Tordotcom) One of my favorite novella series, I love these. This would be my vote.
A Mirror Mended, by Alix E. Harrow (Tordotcom) Good but not a favorite.
Ogres, by Adrian Tchaikovsky (Solaris) Very good. Probably 2nd place for me.
What Moves the Dead, by T. Kingfisher (Tor Nightfire) No thank you, just not a fan of TK's writing.
Where the Drowned Girls Go, by Seanan McGuire (Tordotcom) I haven't started this series yet.
I read The Spare Man. It was indeed fluffy, if you will, but sometimes that is just what I need. It was not hard sf in any way, but a fun to read mystery set in space with a wealthy suspect/protagonist and lots of cocktail recipes. I did actually learn some things about “emotional support dogs” while reading the book - which I then went and did additional research on as it was interesting. I am not excited about many of the nominations on the ballot. But I do have some reading to do so I can make decisions…..
Science Fiction World - where three of the short stories were published in - is a Chinese magazine published in Chengdu. Can someone confirm whether they are translated? The one from Regina Kanyu has not been translated, and that's confirmed. I was also surprised with Babel not making it to the finalist list but it might be that it's not the voters' pick this time, compared to the others. The author has not said anything about Uyghurs or Tibet, she's not political at all at least in Twitter but cmiiw.
I have only read Nettle and Bone, and agree even though it's really good, does not feel like a Hugo winner material but what do I know - my voting (accuracy( record is getting worse every year.
Mod
Mod
Thanks, interesting stuff.
Mod
Shocking to me because to me it's far and away the best fantasy book of the year, but I guess it did turn a lot of people off because of its explicit politics, so I can see those readers punishing it in the nominating process. My other favourite, Nona, is also in a series that continues to be polarizing, so I don't have much hope for it. I suspect we're going to end up with the "lowest common denominator" (ie. the one that offends the sensibilities of the least amount of readers) taking the prize.
People on reddit were talking about how Isabel J. Kim, nominated for the Astounding Award, has had a super incredible year of banger short stories. I haven't read any of them, haven't even heard of her until the ballot was released, but now I'm very curious to try out some of her stories.
Kalin wrote: "Silvana wrote: "I was also surprised with Babel not making it to the finalist list but it might be that it's not the voters' pick this time, compared to the others."Shocking to me because to me i..."
Same here on Isabel J. Kim.
Oleksandr wrote: "Some interesting thoughts on dominance of Tor from Scalzi - https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comm..."Now I'm waiting on some interesting thoughts on dominance of Scalzi from Tor.
Mod
lol... he dominated back when he was the president of SWFA. And started the tradition of Hugo Packets among other things
Mod
The Moreau audio was available from the library so I gave it a listen. Based on comments here, it was about what I expected, although I did get drawn into the story more so than her previous books & liked it better because of that. I can say more definitively now that Babel was much better than at least four of the Hugo entries.
My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/edit...
Mod
It is okay, but IMHO not award level even if right now after years off reading of H/N nominees, quite a few of them aren't :)
Mod
I loved The Spare Man; it was right up my alley. Not a huge fan of Legends & Lattes or the Ninth series. Haven't read the others yet... not a huge Scalzi fan...
Mod
Great! It'll be September's monthly read at our filial group SFF Hot from Printers: New Releases
Mod
Great! It'll be September's monthly read at our filial group SFF Hot from Printers: New Releases"
Haven't been able to source this one yet. My library doesn't have it & I don't feel like it's worth spending an Audible credit on. I'll have to wait on this one.
Mod
M-G gets a lot of attention, but I've yet to really like one of her books. I thought that Moreau was the best of what I've read, but it was barely SF at all & only gave lip service to the original Moreau. It seems to be part of a trend toward new stories given rebooted names to create recognition & buzz. A TV example is Perry Mason, where he's a young detective rather than the lawyer of the early TV series. It has nothing to do with Perry Mason, they just use the name to create buzz.
The accolades for Moreau speak to the weak field. I liked Kaiju, but Scalzi is a love/hate for people & while good, it wasn't his strongest. Apart from Babel, everything else was just average or below, nothing really outstanding. Soft pieces like Moreau, Shrek III...I mean Legends & Lattes & The Spare Man seem to be more and more the norm.
Mod
I guess not as much about the field but about [1] nominating SFF fandom with tastes different from ours and [2] voting for an author, not a book. We have seen it in the past, e.g. of 2 is say The Boat of a Million Years. After all the field has a bunch of great Brits - Adrian Tchaikovsky, Alastair Reynolds, Peter F. Hamilton, Adam Roberts with usually quite strong stuff and with nominations from UK SFF fandom
I quite like Moreno-Garcia, based on the three books I’ve read. (Signal to Noise, Gods of Jade and Shadow, Mexican Gothic). She seems to be a solid professional who does interesting things related to her Mexican roots. She’s also a popular bestseller. So I don’t think it’s surprising to see her among the finalists, though I haven’t read this book yet. However it does look like a weak group of finalists.
Yeah, Moreno-Garcia’s style doesn’t work for me, but i fully recognize she is a talented and popular author. I agree that it seems like the genre is dominated by softer sci-fi lately though. And, unrelated, I feel like the pool of eligible books for this past year were not that great. The only one I feel strongly should have been on the list was Goliath.
But back to soft bs hard sci-fi… I can’t remember the last time I picked up hard sci-fi. Is anyone writing it these days? I guess Tchaikovsky or Andy Weir… but i don’t like their styles haha.
Mod
In my mind, in the past, the Nebula nominations often leaned toward fantasy, sometimes softer stuff, but some very good ones, and the Hugos tended to be more SF, and the hard SF books showed up in there. Now it seems to be a lot more mixed, and fantasy is dominating. By my reckoning:
2021: 6 F, 2 SF
2022: 4 F, 5 SF
2023: 7 F, 2 SF
Mod
I've read all but Signal to Noise and for me she is okay writer - this means that if I came across her book I'll probably read it, only partially because I think it will be among next year nominees.
Mod
For shorter hard SF stuff Analog magazine is still full of it. In longer, I guess it depends how hard is hard enough :) say Scalzie and Architects trilogy of Tchaikowsky aren't hard SF, but SF nevertheless.
I picked up a copy of The Year's Top Hard Science Fiction Stories 7 and hope to read it soon. I recognize a couple of the story titles from Analog.
Oleksandr wrote: "Stephen wrote: "I quite like Moreno-Garcia, based on the three books I’ve read. ."I've read all but Signal to Noise and for me she is okay writer - this means that if I came across her book I'll ..."
I believe Signal to Noise was her first novel.
Hugo & Nebula Awards: Best Novels
Books mentioned in this topic
The Daughter of Doctor Moreau (other topics)Babel (other topics)
The Spare Man (other topics)
The Year's Top Hard Science Fiction Stories 7 (other topics)
The Mountain in the Sea (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Adrian Tchaikovsky (other topics)Alastair Reynolds (other topics)
Peter F. Hamilton (other topics)
Adam Roberts (other topics)
The Daughter of Doctor Moreau, by Silvia Moreno-Garcia (Del Rey)
The Kaiju Preservation Society, by John Scalzi (Tor Books)
Legends & Lattes, by Travis Baldree (Tor Books)
Nona the Ninth, by Tamsyn Muir (Tordotcom)
Nettle & Bone, by T. Kingfisher (Tor Books)
The Spare Man, by Mary Robinette Kowal (Tor Books)
Best Novella
Even Though I Knew the End, by C.L. Polk (Tordotcom)
Into the Riverlands, by Nghi Vo (Tordotcom)
A Mirror Mended, by Alix E. Harrow (Tordotcom)
Ogres, by Adrian Tchaikovsky (Solaris)
What Moves the Dead, by T. Kingfisher (Tor Nightfire)
Where the Drowned Girls Go, by Seanan McGuire (Tordotcom)
Best Novelette
“The Difference Between Love and Time”, by Catherynne M. Valente (Someone in Time: Tales of Time-Crossed Romance, Solaris)
“A Dream of Electric Mothers”, by Wole Talabi (Africa Risen: A New Era of Speculative Fiction, Tordotcom)
“If You Find Yourself Speaking to God, Address God with the Informal You”, by John Chu (Uncanny Magazine, July-August 2022)
“Murder By Pixel: Crime and Responsibility in the Digital Darkness”, by S.L. Huang (Clarkesworld, December 2022)
“The Space-Time Painter”, by Hai Ya (Galaxy’s Edge, April 2022)
“We Built This City”, by Marie Vibbert (Clarkesworld, June 2022)
Best Short Story
“D.I.Y.”, by John Wiswell (Tor.com, August 2022)
“On the Razor’s Edge”, by Jiang Bo (Science Fiction World, January 2022)
“Rabbit Test”, by Samantha Mills (Uncanny Magazine, November-December 2022)
“Resurrection”, by Ren Qing (Future Fiction/Science Fiction World, December 2022)
“The White Cliff”, by Lu Ban (Science Fiction World, May 2022)
“Zhurong on Mars”, by Regina Kanyu Wang (Frontiers, September 2022)
Best Series
Children of Time Series, by Adrian Tchaikovsky (Pan Macmillan/Orbit)
The Founders Trilogy, by Robert Jackson Bennett (Del Rey)
The Locked Tomb, by Tamsyn Muir (Tor.com)
October Daye, by Seanan McGuire (DAW)
Rivers of London, by Ben Aaronovich (Orion)
The Scholomance, by Naomi Novik (Del Rey)
Best Graphic Story or Comic
Cyberpunk 2077: Big City Dreams, by Bartosz Sztybor, Filipe Andrade, Alessio Fioriniello, Roman Titov, Krzysztof Ostrowski (Dark Horse Books)
DUNE: The Official Movie Graphic Novel, by Lilah Sturges, Drew Johnson, Zid (Legendary Comics)
Monstress vol. 7: Devourer, by Marjorie Liu and Sana Takeda (Image Comics)
Once & Future Vol 4: Monarchies in the UK, by Kieron Gillen / Dan Mora (BOOM! Studios)
Saga, Vol. 10, by Brian K. Vaughan, Fiona Staples, Fonografiks (Image Comics)
Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow, by Tom King, Bilquis Evely, and Matheus Lopes (DC Comics)
Best Related Work
Blood, Sweat & Chrome: The Wild and True Story of Mad Max: Fury Road, by Kyle Buchanan (William Morrow)
Buffalito World Outreach Project, by Lawrence M. Schoen (Paper Golem LLC)
Chinese Science Fiction, An Oral History, Volume 1, by Yang Feng (Chengdu Times Press)
“The Ghost of Workshops Past”, by S.L. Huang (Tor.com)
Still Just a Geek: An Annotated Memoir, by Wil Wheaton (William Morrow)
Terry Pratchett: A Life With Footnotes, by Rob Wilkins (Doubleday)
Best Dramatic Presentation Long Form
Avatar: The Way of Water, screenplay by James Cameron, Rick Jaffa, and Amanda Silver, directed by James Cameron (Lightstorm Entertainment / TSG Entertainment II)
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever, screenplay by Ryan Coogler and Joe Robert Cole, directed by Ryan Coogler (Marvel Studios)
Everything Everywhere All at Once, screenplay by Daniel Kwan and Daniel Scheinert, directed by Daniel Kwan and Daniel Sheinert (IAC Films / Gozie AGBO)
Nope, written by Jordan Peele, directed by Jordan Peele (Universal Pictures / Monkeypaw Productions)
Severance (Season 1), written by Dan Erickson, Anna Ouyang Moench et al., directed by Ben Stiller and Aoife McArdle (Red Hour Productions / Fifth Season)
Turning Red, screenplay by Julia Cho and Domee Shi, directed by Domee Shi (Walt Disney Studios / Pixar Animation Studios)
Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form
Andor: “One Way Out”, written by Beau Willimon, Tony Gilroy, and George Lucas, directed by Toby Haynes (Lucasfilm)
Andor: “Rix Road”, written by Tony Gilroy and George Lucas, directed by Benjamin Caron (Lucasfilm)
The Expanse: “Babylon’s Ashes”, written by Daniel Abraham, Ty Franck, Naren Shankar, directed by Breck Eisner (Alcon Entertainment)
For All Mankind: “Stranger in a Strange Land”, written by Matt Wolpert and Ben Nedivi, directed by Craig Zisk (Tall Ship Productions/Sony Pictures Television)
She-Hulk: Attorney at Law: “Whose Show is This?”, written by Jessica Gao, Francesca Gailes, and Jacqueline Gailes, directed by Kat Coiro (Marvel Entertainment)
Stranger Things: “Chapter Four: Dear Billy”, written by Matt Duffer, Ross Duffer, and Paul Dichter, directed by Shawn Levy (21 Laps Entertainment)
Best Editor, Short Form
Scott H. Andrews
Neil Clarke
Oghenechovwe Donald Ekpeki
Sheree Renée Thomas
Xu Wang
Feng Yang
Best Editor, Long Form
Ruoxi Chen
Lindsey Hall
Lee Harris
Sarah Peed
Huan Yan
Haijun Yao
Best Professional Artist
Sija Hong
Kuri Huang
Paul Lewin
Alyssa Winans
Jian Zhang
Enzhe Zhao
Best Semiprozine
Escape Pod, co-editors Mur Lafferty & Valerie Valdes; Assistant editors Benjamin C. Kinney & Premee Mohamed, host Tina Connolly, producers Summer Brooks and Adam Pracht
FIYAH, edited by the entire FIYAH team
khōréō, edited by Team khōréō
PodCastle, co-Editors Shingai Njeri Kagunda and Eleanor R. Wood; Assistant Editor Sofia Barker; Host Matt Dovey; Audio Producers Peter Adrian Behravesh, Devin Martin, and Eric Valdes
Strange Horizons, edited by The Strange Horizons Editorial Team
Uncanny Magazine, publishers and editors-in-chief: Lynne M. Thomas and Michael Damian Thomas; managing/poetry editor Chimedum Ohaegbu; managing editor Monte Lin; nonfiction editor Meg Elison; podcast producers Erika Ensign and Steven Schapansky.
Best Fanzine
Chinese Academic SF Express, by Latssep and Tianluo_Qi
Galactic Journey, by Gideon Marcus, Janice Marcus, Tammi Bozich, Erica Frank, Arel Lucas, and Mark Yon
Journey Planet, by Regina Kanyu Wang, Yen Ooi, Arthur Liu, Jean Martin, Erin Underwood, Steven H Silver, Pádraig Ó Méalóid and their other co-editors.
Nerds of a Feather, by Roseanna Pendlebury, Arturo Serrano, Paul Weimer, Adri Joy, Joe Sherry, Vance Kotrla, G. Brown
Unofficial Hugo Book Club Blog, by Olav Rokne and Amanda Wakaruk
Zero Gravity Newspaper, by RiverFlow and Ling Shizhen
Best Fancast
Coode Street Podcast, presented by Jonathan Strahan and Gary K. Wolfe, produced by Jonathan Strahan
Hugo, Girl!, by Haley Zapal, Amy Salley, Lori Anderson, and Kevin Anderson
Hugos There, by Seth Heasley
Kalanadi, created and presented by Rachel
Octothorpe, by John Coxon, Alison Scott, and Liz Batty
Worldbuilding for Masochists, by Cass Morris, Rowenna Miller, Marshall Ryan Maresca
Best Fan Writer
Chris M. Barkley
Bitter Karella
Arthur Liu
RiverFlow
Jason Sanford
Örjan Westin
Best Fan Artist
Iain Clark
Richard Man
Laya Rose
Alison Scott
España Sheriff
Orion Smith
Lodestar Award for Best Young Adult Book
Akata Woman (The Nsibidi Scripts), by Nnedi Okorafor (Viking Books for Young Readers)
Bloodmarked, by Tracy Deonn (Simon & Schuster Books for Young Readers)
Dreams Bigger Than Heartbreak, by Charlie Jane Anders (Tor Teen/Titan Books)
The Golden Enclaves, by Naomi Novik (Del Rey)
In the Serpents Wake, by Rachel Hartman (Random House Books for Young Readers)
Osmo Unknown and the Eightpenny Woods, by Catherynne M. Valente (Margaret K. McElderry Books)
Astounding Award for Best New Writer
Travis Baldree
Naseem Jamnia
Isabel J Kim*
Maijia Liu
Everina Maxwell*
Weimu Xin*
* - finalist in their 2nd year of eligibility