One Year In Search of Lost Time ~ 2015 discussion

Our reading ends:

“He did not answer, whether because of surprise at my statement, attentiveness to his work, a sense of protocol, hardness of hearing, respect for place, fear of danger, laziness of mind or the manager’s instructions” (~45.3%).

There is still a lot of time this week, so keep it up, fellow Proustians, it's worth it! And if you fell behind, just continue where you where and discuss in the older threads. I'm probably not the only one still willing to discuss there.

Our narrator confesses his love of Gilberte throughout the first section, but what we get are detailed descriptions of Madame Swann, not Gilberte!

It's still confusing how old the narrator might be; if anything, his age seems even more contradictory than before.

Yes, it's evident the narrator idolizes Mme Swann, he seems very taken by her beauty and style (especially her clever dresses in these parts). I think it's even fair to say there's quite some erotic tension between the two. There was one scene I can't remember exactly, where I think Marcel complimented Mme Swann on her looks and she smiled at him flirtatiously.

And yes, the narator's age continues to be unclear, but I had the impression that somewhere in the second novel, maybe right at the beginning, the narrator ages some years compared to the first novel, because of his beginning love and sexual attractions.

Simon wrote: "... I had the impression that somewhere in the second novel, maybe right at the beginning, the narrator ages some years compared to the first novel, because of his beginning love and sexual attractions."

Yes, I thought so too, though I still wondered considering his game-playing in the park versus his abandoning a possible career in diplomacy for one as a writer instead, and then his continued attachment to his mother (and her reassurance) versus his traveling alone on the train to see the city of Balbec and to meet up with his grandmother. Though all of this, considering the time period, could still indicate a young teenager.

The attachment to his mother doesn't need to tell his age though, as Proust himself was extremely attached to his all life long, one could say he never grew up in that regard.
"What is for you the greatest unhappiness?"
"To be separated from maman" - Proust's answer in the Proust questionnaire

Simon wrote: "The attachment to his mother doesn't need to tell his age though, as Proust himself was extremely attached to his all life long, one could say he never grew up in that regard.
"What is for you the ..."

Yes, I agree, though the actual incident made me think of someone younger, though I realize that only makes him seem younger.

He was drinking beer on the train to calm himself for the trip and being away from maman, so he couldn't be TOO young....It IS very hard to tell his age. I suspect his chronological age is in advance of his emotional age.

Barbara wrote: "He was drinking beer on the train to calm himself for the trip and being away from maman, so he couldn't be TOO young....It IS very hard to tell his age. I suspect his chronological age is in adva..."

Yes, the drinking, too, Barbara, was also what I was thinking of. Thanks.

His description of his response to the beer made me think that perhaps he hadn't had too much experience with drinking/over-drinking---or perhaps he is simply having fun with us, the readers. I really enjoyed that section. My thought was that he was in his mid to late teens in this second book (but of course I have no basis for this guess and it doesn't really fit with the chronology of the earlier book).

I'm sorry I forgot to check in on this discussion this week earlier.

Sue wrote: "His description of his response to the beer made me think that perhaps he hadn't had too much experience with drinking/over-drinking---or perhaps he is simply having fun with us, the readers."

I wondered about that too, Sue, especially as he goes on to read when I thought he'd be falling asleep in a drunken stupor.

Teresa wrote: "Sue wrote: "His description of his response to the beer made me think that perhaps he hadn't had too much experience with drinking/over-drinking---or perhaps he is simply having fun with us, the re..."

Well if Proust was seeking to amuse me, he did!

I feel like throughout most of this book, I've been struggling to figure out the narrators age. At this point I was assuming late teens. I've also been waiting for something 'scandalous' to happen between the narrator and Mme Swann :P

I had a ton of sticky notes throughout our first section of this book, but found that I haven't connected with much since then until later in this section. I like that we're seeing some different scenery with his travels now.

Steph wrote: "I like that we're seeing some different scenery with his travels now."

Me too. It's a very welcome change.

Yes, different scenery and different people to comment on.

The first part felt a bit claustrophobic to me. It was a great sensation to experience the Balbec breeze!

Have to admit I enjoyed the talk of Mme Swann better than the obsession with Gilberte.

I found the narrator's obsession with Gilberte interesting insofar as it repeats aspects of her father's obsession with her mother, at least in a more naive way. Swann seemed self-consciously infatuated while the narrator's flashes of self-conscious reflection are made retrospectively. Proust describes everything which such sensuous detail that the present seems very real — right there in front of me, so to speak. When I hear the voice of an older, retrospective narrator break into the narration I get a strong sense of contrast with what is being narrated. An example is when he tell us how his love for Gilberte will be replaced by another love:

"Because you are now in love with someone who will one day mean nothing to you, you refuse out of hand to meet someone who means nothing to you now, but whom you will one day come to love, someone whom you might have loved sooner if you had agreed to an earlier meeting, who might have curtailed your present sufferings (before replacing them, of course, with others)" (Penguin epub 215/567).

To return to a theme I had been fixated on in January, the shift in pronoun seems significant. All of a sudden the older narrator jumps into to reminisce about something that hasn't happened yet (at least for his readers). Again, as with a paragraph from one of the first pages of Swann's Way, he uses "on" in French which James Grieve translates as "you." I think it's clear that the narrator is talking about himself here (and to himself). Here's the French if anyone's interested:

On refuse dédaigneusement, à cause de ce qu'on aime et qui vous sera un jour si égal, de voir ce qui vous est égal aujourd'hui, qu'on aimera demain, qu'on aurait peut-être pu, si on avait consenti à le voir, aimer plus tôt, et qui eût ainsi abrégé vos souffrances actuelles, pour les remplacer il est vrai par d'autres.

After so much time in the Parisian salons, I've also become claustrophobic. It makes the imagery and sensations in Balbec all the more welcome. I would say it has something to do with my introversion, but Proust and his narrator also seem very introverted.

In the last paragraph from last week someone, Mme Bontemps (I think) actually addressed the narrator, which is rare, but we never get to hear his answer. In fact, I remember other occasions when there was a dialogue which included the narrator; he quoted others but not himself. This happens a lot in his conversations with Mme Swann. It gives the impression that he never talks although it's clear that it's a false impression. If he never talked he wouldn't get invited all the time, right? Sometimes he gives us an overview of what he said via indirect discourse, but that's not quite the same thing. It's reached the point that I don't know if he actually answered but just didn't tell us about it or if someone interrupted him and didn't let him answer.

In the example I mentioned above, Mme Bontemps asks him a question and Mme Cottard replies. Did he answer in between? In his conversations with Mme Swann, is he answering all the time, sometimes, or never? This might seem like pointless speculation but it plays into a large issue, namely, why do we get so little information about the narrator in a story that's written autobiographically. I've heard people refer to the narrator of ISoLT as "the man with too many qualities" but this isn't immediately evident. We can't even figure out his age! At the very least, I'd say that the narrator's relationship with the story he's narrating is so unique I can't figure it out.

Jacob, you are so right. He reveals some emotional elements, occasional details of parties and family and surroundings, but our narrator is actually quite tight lipped about any details regarding himself.

I suppose the one exception I can think of off hand would be his talk of his illnesses.

Jacob wrote: "I found the narrator's obsession with Gilberte interesting insofar as it repeats aspects of her father's obsession with her mother, at least in a more naive way. Swann seemed self-consciously infat..."

I found the two relationships so similar that I briefly toyed with the idea that Swann and the narrator are actually the same person.

Teresa wrote: "Jacob wrote: "I found the narrator's obsession with Gilberte interesting insofar as it repeats aspects of her father's obsession with her mother, at least in a more naive way. Swann seemed self-con..."

That's an interesting scenario, isn't it.

How strange! I assumed the narrator to be in his early twenties, at least in this second section "Place-Naces - The Place". The opening sentence sets the action two years after the Narrator's fallout with Gilberte; and even back then, in his conversations with Mme Swann he dreamed of asking for Gilberte's hand. I simply assumed something like marriage wouldn't be addressed by a teenager...
He is definitely emotionally younger, at least for modern standards, not only because of his dependence on "maman", but also because of the dynamics in his relationship with his grandmother. The scene at the hotel room in Balbec when he is sickly and gives three knocks on the wall to get his grandmother's attention could be a good example. I think the narrator's perception of the maternal figure influences his idealized notions of love and his constant need for external approval.
What I mostly liked of this second portion so far is the passage where the sunbeams leak through the train windows greeting the narrator at dawn and how that can be related to the thrill of the journey to a new beginning, which so well fits with the change of scenarios.