The Sword and Laser discussion

Can't believe this one hasn't got a thread yet.

So, what do you all think? I for one am really happy with the first two episodes. Not perfect, but hoo boy, it feels like watching the best stuff from Clone Wars (Ahsoka) and Rebels (Ghost crew) in one live action series.

So many good scenes, the casting was also pretty spot on. I need to get used to MEW as Hera, but she does have her leader aura.

And that Chopper-Hera banter, how I miss that crazy homicidal bot!

Agreed. I also need to get used to the new Hera, but she has the right personality, and the rest of the cast is terrific.

I'm going to cross the streams a little. Ray Stevenson, who plays the menacing former Jedi Baylon Skoll, passed away recently. I can't help but think he would have been the right choice to play Shaxs in a live action Star Trek Lower Decks. May he rest in peace.

I'm loving it so far and can't wait to see where it goes. Loved that they included Clancy Brown as Ryder Azadi. I hope there are some more surprise characters from Rebels to pop up. Definitely glad I did a Rebels re-watch before the series premiere it is fresh in my mind.

Misti wrote: "I'm loving it so far and can't wait to see where it goes. Loved that they included Clancy Brown as Ryder Azadi. I hope there are some more surprise characters from Rebels to pop up. Definitely glad..."

I assumed the young Senator was one of the kids that joined near the end, but I didn’t remember names enough to know for sure. But I also thought that bit was great.

I definitely like how the actress is portraying Sabine, but I just always had it my head the model for her was more northern Asian/ Indian then the actress is, and that is taking me a while to get over. But I fully admit that is a me issue, not a show issue.

And another minor quibble was it was two easy to understand Chopper. I was hearing Dave say actual words instead of just the mumbling from the past. But like I said minor.

Otherwise I really liked the slightly slower pace to ease you into the show, punctuated with action. And the score was excellent as always.

Great hearing John! I still hear good old Chopper. I will lose my mind if Hondo shows up. 2 episodes in and my Tuesdays are set.

Stephen wrote: "Great hearing John! I still hear good old Chopper. I will lose my mind if Hondo shows up. 2 episodes in and my Tuesdays are set."

Ha! Well maybe I’ve just grown used to him over the years. Hondo would be fun, but I’d be curious about how old he would be. He wasn’t exactly young in Rebels.

Depends on the species age, I guess. I'd love for Rex to show up but pretty sure he's long gone by this time.

The young senator was Jai Kell, he met Ezra when the later did an undercover job in the imperial academy.

Mark wrote: "Agreed. I also need to get used to the new Hera, but she has the right personality, and the rest of the cast is terrific.

I'm going to cross the streams a little. Ray Stevenson, who plays the mena..."

I was surprised to see Ray there, kinda surreal.

Another minor stuff but got me squealing: LOTHCAT! https://twitter.com/Klazilla/status/1...

I need that merch, disney take my money!

And what do you folks think about (view spoiler)[Ahsoka having Sabine as her apprentice? The way the live action did the scene of her leaving with Ahsoka like in the Rebels epilogue got me teary eyed. (hide spoiler)]

I thought the first two episodes were outstanding. I was worried when I started seeing the (view spoiler)[ Master/Apprentice themes in trailers (hide spoiler)] but so far it doesn't feel like a retcon.

In my heart I am a Rebels girl so this made me very happy.

In Dave I trust.

I liked the first two. Ahsoka was a little too "walking about intensely" but we've seen her in other live action things and I'm thinking that's just the writing. The episodes were definitely a pair, making up the whole 'get the bad back together' vibe. Sabine annoyed me being impulsive and (view spoiler)[ losing the map (hide spoiler)] but... hi, it's Sabine. Plus, that needed to happen to set up the next bit.

I went to IMDB to see how tall Mary Elizabeth Winstead is, because she seemed to tower over all the other women, but she’s just 5’8”. However, turns out she’s now married to Ewan McGregor. I had no idea. General Syndulla and Obi-Wan Kenobi are married.

Side-side note: Ewan McGregor is 5’9-1/2” while Alec Guinness was 5’9-1/4”.

And she keeps a giant hammer in her purse, at least in Scott Pilgrim.

Doesn’t everybody?

Just realized we only have 8 episodes for Ahsoka. Same like Mando?
Obi-wan had 6. Boba Fett 7. Andor 12.

I think 8 episodes should make a compact storytelling.

Trike wrote: "General Syndulla and Obi-Wan Kenobi are married...."

Hope Kanan and Duchess Satine gave their blessings too LOL

Besides those mentioned and 10 Cloverfield Lane, another show I really enjoyed MEW in was “Brain Dead”. It was a fun bit of political satire with a bit of sci-fi thrown in. The rest of the cast is really good. It may seem a bit quaint now since it came out in the summer of 2016, and US politics has gotten different in that time, but I thought it was fun at the time.

Mary Elizabeth Winstead was also in S3 of the Fargo TV series, co-starring with one Ewan McGregor.

Joseph wrote: "Mary Elizabeth Winstead was also in S3 of the Fargo TV series, co-starring with one Ewan McGregor."

As well as Birds of Prey. Hmm… purely coincidental timing on his divorce, I’m sure. :p

Ep. 3

Who screamed when (view spoiler)[those purrgils showed up? they looked majestic! though less cute compared to the animated version. (hide spoiler)]

I enjoyed (view spoiler)[Ahsoka-Sabine master-apprentice stuff. Just realized they're my second all-female pair aside from Luminara-Bariss. (hide spoiler)]

Oh and (view spoiler)[hello Jacen. Is he strong with the Force too? Well, this is definitely Rebels season 5 LOL (hide spoiler)]

Anyway I did not remember Huyang at all, apparently he did show up in CW and voiced by Ten.

I also continued to very much enjoy the episode, but still have issues (view spoiler)[with the characterization of Sabine. She just seems to have regressed from where we saw her at the end of Rebels at pretty much the time of the Battle of Yavin, this is many years later, she has already been Ashoka's padawan/ apprentice once before, and had the trauma of the Night of a Thousand Tears inflicted on her people. And yet she hasn't advanced her weapons training since then, or like I said even regressed. That just doesn't seem like how the strong willed, independent and determined young Mandalorian woman we left at the end of rebels would have spent this time. (hide spoiler)]

I still am curious where the plot is taking us, and like it so far, the action has been great, and I'm still digging the music. And as much as I enjoyed Mary Elizabeth Winstead's performance in the first 2 episodes, I actually thought it felt more Hera like in this one.

I agree with John that seemed to (view spoiler)[ regress Sabine in general. She is nearly 30 by my math and is way to tentative. Though we don't have a clue what happened the first time they were master/apprentice. I hope it sorts it self out. (hide spoiler)]

Who also said (view spoiler)[I hope Jacen isn't at Luke's academy, while not carrying one bit that Leia's offspring will be there. (hide spoiler)]

As for Huyang I went back and watched his CW episodes (3 i think) and they were great. I can't wait to hear how they get back together.

I thought this episode was really lifeless. I’ve seen amateur fan films with more energy. It also looked like it was shot on video 20 years ago. Emulating the look and feel of the Holiday Special shouldn’t be a goal.

That was also the most boring space battle I’ve seen in a long time. The music was good but everything else was just by the numbers. Plus there were no stakes. None of our heroes or villains are going to get killed or injured at this early stage, so what’s the point? You knew exactly which ships would get blown up, the ones flown by faceless bad guys.

I did like the (view spoiler)[lightsabers outside the ship bit, which was new. (Was there a similar scene in Rebels?) And the specific shot where she runs down the wing and flips into the hatch was cool. https://youtu.be/wOdZF9vGx7w?si=j8ZPa... But other than that I thought it was pretty dull. (hide spoiler)]

Sabine:
(view spoiler)[While I understand the above points when I think about it again, it does not really bother me, like it is not that she's completely incompetent or annoying, like she might be just rusty with the weapon or some parts since she has not been involved for years. We don't know her state of mind in the in between period. What if she did regress? People change and not always for the better. What matters (to me) is that whether in the course of the series she gets it together again, and even more now that she and Ahsoka had a better understanding. (hide spoiler)]

Ahsoka:
(view spoiler)[I love her so much in this episode, and while I miss th feisty Ahsoka the padawan/commander/rebel persona, I really dig Ahsoka the master. I also love the space battle, it is definitely a CW stuff. (hide spoiler)]

Hera:
(view spoiler)[Yep MEW also grew on me. I totally forgot about the annoying Senator, apparently he was in CW/Rebels. (hide spoiler)]

What does anyone think about Shin? Some twt fans really love her for some reason.

Silvana wrote: "What does anyone think about Shin?"

Nothing. She has no personality and hasn’t said anything of note. She’s just there to get killed two minutes before Ray Stevenson does, and probably two minutes after the other woman gets blown up on her ship.

Come to that, Stevenson hasn’t really done much, either. He just stands around looking stern. The only one with any personality is the ship captain they sprung from jail, and I don’t even know her name.

I hope things don’t progress the way they seem that they will, because Rebels constantly surprised me. But so far everything has been paint-by-numbers.

I think we’ve now seen everything that was in the trailer except for the lightsaber duel between Ahsoka and Stevenson and the revelation that robot boy is an Inquisitor/brainwashed Ezra.

I also forgot to mention that space suit Ahsoka wears. How long does it take to get that hat on? It seems unnecessarily complicated. She can clearly take it off in 5 seconds.

I watched the first episode yesterday. I thought it was not very well written or directed. There were too many times that I found myself watching two people talking and sharing "meaningful looks" and thinking to myself "GET ON WITH IT!" I'm hoping future episodes improve.

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "I'm hoping future episodes improve.."

They don’t. So far. Likely they won’t.

Trike wrote: "RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "I'm hoping future episodes improve.."

They don’t. So far. Likely they won’t."

You know... you and RJ are nothing but downers. You bitch about everything in the most over the top fashion. Do us all a favor and don't watch if you don't like it but it's both annoying and prone to shut down discussion when you two do nothing but bitch about anything that's not in your sweet spot.

Rick wrote: "Trike wrote: "RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "I'm hoping future episodes improve.."

They don’t. So far. Likely they won’t."

You know... you and RJ are nothing but downers. You bitch about everythin..."

No. Have you ever read any of your posts? You’re negative as fuck, man.

I’m super positive ALL THE TIME. You just choose to focus on the negative.

And also? When I don’t like something, it’s because it’s not good. Pretty sure that’s been proven time and again.

Trike wrote: "Rick wrote: "Trike wrote: "RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "I'm hoping future episodes improve.."

They don’t. So far. Likely they won’t."

You know... you and RJ are nothing but downers. You bitch ab..."

LOL Did Rick emerge from his mother’s basement to troll people again? I blocked him months ago and this place has been so much better since then. I figure he’s just a teenager looking for attention. He’ll grow out of it.

Just finished episode four. I like the show but it's still moving too slow for only having eight episodes. (view spoiler)[We're halfway through and still haven't seen Thrawn. (hide spoiler)]

As for Marrok, (view spoiler)[I thought his existence and death were pointless. I had to look up what his turning into green smoke meant when Ahsoka killed him. Apparently it's from a video game?? (hide spoiler)]

It feels like the ending is going to be very rushed or incomplete.

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "LOL Did Rick emerge from his mother’s basement to troll people again? I blocked him months ago and this place has been so much better since then. I figure he’s just a teenager looking for attention. He’ll grow out of it.
..."
And I blocked you when you posted an opinion, then told people not to comment on it.

Anyway, you guys win. Keep bitching about things and being wet blankets and (in RJ's) case, hypocritical little children.

Bye.

Come on guys there is no need to criticise each other.

Everyone is allowed their opinion. Positive or negative.

The thing about personal opinions is that they can't be wrong. It's their opinion.

We can agree to disagree.

I'm enjoying Ahsoka. I set low expectations with anything Marvel or Star Wars on Disney these days.

It is exceeding those expectations.

Tassie Dave wrote: "Come on guys there is no need to criticise each other.

Everyone is allowed their opinion. Positive or negative.

The thing about personal opinions is that they can't be wrong. It's their opinion.
..."

I agree with you, but I would appreciate you directing your comments to the person who started this. Rick unfortunately has a long and colorful history of throwing tantrums when someone’s opinion fails to conform to his. I don’t appreciate him referring to me as a downer and I don’t care for his language either. I don’t think his post conforms to the expectations for group members or for Goodreads users in general, do you? I don’t think it would be unwarranted for you to discuss Rick’s behavior with him and maybe set some firm expectations for his future posts since he seems to be unable to govern his own behavior.

As far as my opinion goes I refuse to defend it to Rick or anyone else. I’m just as entitled to my opinion as any other group member even if anyone or everyone else here disagrees with it. As a mod, I would expect and appreciate you standing up for my rights in this situation.

To be very clear, I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with my opinion, but I am not going to have someone criticize or correct my opinion. That is the line that Rick crossed not just once but many times with me as well as other members here.

I look forward to seeing this matter resolved without my further input. Since all I did was post my opinion then defend myself against an unwarranted attack (not for the first time) I will consider my role in this mess concluded.

Can you all fight somewhere else?

Thoughts on ep 4

Sabine
(view spoiler)[now I am bothered with what they did to Sabine. I feel it was a weird decision especially she did not actually lost ALL since she still got Hera, Zeb etc.

I liked that she finally bested Shin but ofc could not finish her since, well, plot. (hide spoiler)]

Ahsoka
(view spoiler)[while the live action could not show the full athletic feats she usually does I liked how they choreographed the fight. And she does fight like a samurai, doesn't she? Suitable for her mostly solo work.

And who else was squealing when seeing the world between worlds thing? Though Anakin showing up is no surprise I am just happy we got to see that place in the LA. (hide spoiler)]

Thrawn (no he does not show up, just me wondering)
(view spoiler)[everyone assuming when he is back then he would rebuild the empire. What would he do that, the empire only has remains. I don't recall exactly the trilogy details but did not he join the empire to save his people from another threat? (hide spoiler)]

Rick wrote: "Anyway, you guys win. Keep bitching about things and being wet blankets and (in RJ's) case, hypocritical little children."

Like when I raved about the Fred the Vampire Accountant series last week?

Or when I praised the excellence of Good Omens 2, saying that I thought it was even better than the terrific first season?

Or last month when I gushed over Silvia Morena-Gracie’s writing, and the terrific Legends & Lattes?

Or me hyping the GraphicAudio productions on great books?

Or when I enthused about the Star Trek spaceship design book?

Or the funny board game story I shared?

Or my constant praise for the awesomeness that is Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, including the musical episode?

Or the fact that I literally started an entire long-running thread called “Funny SFF Stuff”?

The positive things I say and add vastly outnumber any negative opinions I share. The problem isn’t me, bro, it’s you.

Muting people now

Totally on point Silvana. I had some of the same thoughts about Ashoka. I especially liked how they had her look while running in the woods from above.

And while I don’t remember if it made it in to Rebels, you are right about Thrawns motivation from the couple of recent books of his I read.

Thrawn (view spoiler)[could just show-up at the end and we wait for movie, Mandalorian Season 4 or Ahsoka Season 2 (hide spoiler)]

Sabine - (view spoiler)[ yah I really don't get the story line. She was very confident in Rebels, now seems to be off. I think her going with Baylan was planned or at least I am hoping...I am thinking the loss of her family is the linchpin that we don't know and maybe that triggered struggling Sabine. (hide spoiler)]

WBW - (view spoiler)[ If you didn't watch Rebels you have to be WTF right now. Anakin is not a force ghost so it implies he is there in some time instance, and I am guessing he pulled her in? I feel he's Anakin(not Vader) and I don't think they set this whole thing up again for them to fight at least this go around, but the Vader theme...oh boy. I think he tells her it's not her fault and she couldn't have stopped him and to give her apprentice and herself some slack. (hide spoiler)]

Huyang - (view spoiler)[Hand-to-hand droid-on-droid combat but other parts of the episode are so flipping cool, we are not even talking about this...Oh yah talk about force sensitive... "You are better together". That's when I had a bad feeling! It was like he knew one would "die". (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[Kanan (hide spoiler)] cameo (view spoiler)[ Hera's pilot comm (a blurry picture) - my love (hide spoiler)]

Once a rebel, always a rebel...

(view spoiler)[CIA got nothing on me (hide spoiler)]

Seatac Astronomy (view spoiler)[No more secrets (hide spoiler)]

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "I agree with you, but I would appreciate you directing your comments to the person who started this."

I have started with a general call to everyone to try and be more civil.

I am trying to be "Good Cop" to start with (Rob is better at being "Bad Cop" 😉 )

I am used to more spirited forums where disagreeing and heated defending of positions over politics, religion and other hot button topics is the norm. We don't have to like or appreciate the same media. It is ok not to like something and say it. But please, everyone, respect others opinions. Even if you think they are wrong.

This forum, even at its most heated, pales in comparison to my other forums. Though all rules of civility still apply. It is general a fairly friendly and well behaved forum.

I have been guilty in the past of disagreeing with others, and being disagreed with. There is no problem with that. All opinions are valid. We can agree to disagree. But abuse will not be tolerated.

So far no-one has overstepped the line here. In my opinion. Though more than one have come close.

I (and also Rob) have in the past taken action via PMs to warn members of inappropriate posts and to improve their conduct.

I have had people complain about posts that I struggled to find a problem with. Certain people rub others the wrong way. We have a few very opinionated people on this forum (Myself included) and some of them are among my favourite members.

I like that we are from many different countries, beliefs, political spectrums. lifestyles and work settings etc. I am an Aussie who is also a socialist, atheist, who works in the mining industry. Occasionally our beliefs and opinions will clash. I embrace the differences.

Disagreeing is allowed, but we will not allow abuse towards fellow members.

If you feel that certain posts have crossed the line then please PM me or Rob with a link to that post.

I have limited internet availability on work days and may miss all posts (Though I do try and get on and skim all recent posts at least once a day)

Please be civil to one another and enjoy your time here.

Thanks
Tassie Dave 😎

@John: Glad my memory still serves me :)

@Calvey:

So do you think (view spoiler)[Thrawn could show up in Mandalorian series too? I honestly can't remember what the big plot there aside from Grogu (a rewatch is a must then) (hide spoiler)]

Sabine
(view spoiler)[I was surprised when they mentioned about her parents being dead. I don't remember that at all during Rebels. Then again she still got Hera and the rest of the Ghost crew. I don't know if it is just me but now I feel like they made her grieving over Ezra a bit too much, were they even that close in Rebels? (hide spoiler)]

WBW
(view spoiler)[yeah the vader theme kinda scared me. I want a proper reunion of some sorts between Snips and Skyguy LOL (hide spoiler)]

I saw someone said that (view spoiler)[Ezra (hide spoiler)]will show up in the next episode.

@Silvana. Regarding Sabine (view spoiler)[ I assumed, and it seems verified in this episode that her family died in the “The Night of a Thousand Tears” sometime between the end of Rebels and the end of RoTJ. When the empire bombed Mandalore to bits, and destroyed several of the other Mandalorian worlds. This has been talked about some in the recent season of Mando, but all happened off camera so far, as far as I know. And I can agree genocide of my people would bring about a huge amount of trauma, but Sabine always seemed the type to me to fight through those sort of traumatic events, not remove her self from the world. But we will just have to see. (hide spoiler)]

I have my suspicions about where this is all going, but I’m not conversant enough with extended Star Wars lore to be certain. I do recall that Thrawn’s main concern was with the extra-galactic Nihil, aliens invading the SW galaxy. (I remember that because “Nihil” is such a perfectly cartoony name, short for “nihilism”.)

Regarding Marrok (I had to look his name up): (view spoiler)[what’s the deal with turning into smoke when he died? (hide spoiler)]

Episode 4 was weird. The dialogue is still bizarrely stilted, but the fight scenes are cool. It really feels like the director and stunt coordinator are not on the same page.

“Don’t worry about me.”
“I’m not.”
(A beat)
“Should I be?”
“What?”
“Worried.”

It feels like first-pass stuff that would normally be streamlined in rewrites. It also feels like the show should be played at 1.5 speed, especially after I went back and watched some clips of Rebels on YouTube. It’s just… odd. I can’t put my finger on it.

For some reason I was reminded of the scene from The Big Chill where they’re making up the kids’ twin beds for Karen and Richard:

“Should we push these together?”
“Why?”
“Ohh-kay…. How about further apart?”

It’s so efficient at painting the problems in their marriage while establishing character. Not that I’m expecting that level of writing from a Star Wars show (outside of Andor, the brilliant high water mark for this franchise), but I just keep wanting it to be snappier.

Also, why did Hera take her kid into a potential battle? That was a real WTF moment, I thought.

It just occurred to me that since Ashoka (view spoiler)[”died” and went to Jedi heaven (hide spoiler)], then she could find (view spoiler)[Kanan and bring him back (hide spoiler)] because she’s definitely going to (view spoiler)[ get better (hide spoiler)] so (view spoiler)[his Force Ghost could meet his son (hide spoiler)] and/or intercede (view spoiler)[just in the nick of time (hide spoiler)]. Ashoka will say something like (view spoiler)[”I brought some help,” (hide spoiler)] and BOOM! we have (view spoiler)[Anakin and Kanan ghosts teaming up. (hide spoiler)] So that’s my prediction.

I think Hera brings her kid in to battle because she can protect him. I suspect he doesn't go far from her.

Silvana wrote: "@John: Glad my memory still serves me :)

@Calvey:

So do you think [spoilers removed]

Sabine
[spoilers removed]

WBW
[spoilers removed]

I saw someone said that [spoilers removed]will show up in ..."

I watched again and still struggle with Sabine's apparent funk, I get if she lost her family in the Night of Thousand Tears, but I would expect her ready to exact vengeance.

I don't think (view spoiler)[we see much of Ezra this season. Maybe just a glimpse or something. (hide spoiler)]

I haven't watched this and TBH would have at most middling interest in Ahsoka. The "Clone Wars" era stuff holds little fascination for me. But, help me out with a recent plot point that I think I heard that would increase my interest: (view spoiler)[Did they actually pull Ahsoka through time? (hide spoiler)] Because if they did, it would actually cover a multitude of continuity sins all over the...Starwarsverse? Whatever you would call the whole thing. In fact (view spoiler)[it could cover things like a lot of Jedi surviving but not being around for Obi-Wan and Yoda. Actually, headcanon, Obi-Wan and Yoda try to save them but the time-bubble or whatever goes adrift in the time stream. Bonus points if it's Palpatine that effs them up, giving him a method to "somehow return" like that silliness in movie 9 (hide spoiler)]

John (Taloni) wrote: "I haven't watched this and TBH would have at most middling interest in Ahsoka. The "Clone Wars" era stuff holds little fascination for me. But, help me out with a recent plot point that I think I h..."

WBW. I will try not to truly spoil too much, but will discuss some things from rebels and a bit from Ashoka (view spoiler)[So wbw refers to world between worlds. It is a system of interconnected portals at various times. Sort of like if Dr. Who didn’t have the Tardis, but a series of doorways on a path instead. This was used in Rebels to explain a few things, but not for how Ashoka made it through the civil war without being on screen. I just happened to read an article that apparently it was suggested on a card or something, that after the scenes in Rebels she may have gone back there, and that is why she is gone during that time. But this is very obscure, and could easily be retconed. It is a bit of a “get out of jail” card that is cool, but could be easily abused, so I hope it is not. (hide spoiler)]. By the way typing that out made me ponder what really did happen in the last episode of Ahsoka, and I think I get it now more than I did before. But I was just probably being slow. Spoilers for that. (view spoiler)[ so the map they generated wasn’t just a map, but it also opened a doorway to the WBW, these doorways were indicated by the spinning paths shown around them, so when she fell, she fell on to the path, and went to the WBW. Alternatively the ancients who created this viewing area always intended disciples to have to trust in the belief and step off the cliff to get there, similar to IJ and the last crusade. (hide spoiler)]

^ Hey, thanks. TBH that sounds pretty cool to me. Yeah, I read the spoilers, which was kinda the point for me but good to leave it covered for others. I'll move this series into rotation. On the slow watch, but I'll give it a shot. I'm starting to think there may be hope for the Star Wars franchise. They need some decent plotlines and not just gargantuan FX budgets.

Just be warned that the WBW doesn't show up until near the very end of Rebels. And we don't know how it will be utilized in Ahsoka yet, since it just showed up.