Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

This is a Buddy Read for Kushiel's Dart by Jacqueline Carey starting on March 1, 2024.


Happy Reading!

I've been debating on whether to read these or not... But now that its a BR I'll probably give it a shot.

I’m in!

I might join... just for the pattern...

I read this first trilogy in 2016ish... I re-read it in 2018, the last time there was an FBR Buddy Read, and made it to book 6... if we do it this time, and I make it to book 9, I'd be overly pleased...

My least favorite part of the series is the 3rd book in the first trilogy... the part in the middle where (view spoiler)[Phedre is getting obliterated by that warchief guy and his penis attachments... and still kinda liking it, despite the fact it's literally killing her... (hide spoiler)]

Uhhh (view spoiler)[ Penis attachments? Are these smut books? If so what’s the percentage of smut to real story? (hide spoiler)]

Felina wrote: "Uhhh [spoilers removed]"

Not really... it's hard to really quantify... calling the books smut diminishes what they are...

Phedre is a trained courtesan, which holds religious significance in this world... and born with an eye mote that denotes a specialty in receiving pain... but she's also trained in spycraft... and inevitably gets sent on quests that reshape the world/empire and topple nations/coups...

You have to experience it to understand... but, as I posted in that spoiler for later books, it leads to her enduring some crazy harsh stuff... for reasons...

Honestly, I hope someone else pops in to explain more eloquently...

The stories don't focus on the erotic aspects of the sexual acts, so much as the healing aspects... and as I noted in one of the reviews, the ritualistic names for things is kinda hilarious... aka, coaxing the turtle...

OMG coaxing the turtle... Makes me want to read that a bit more now LOL

Okay, that does sounds more like what I’ve heard. Hopefully the authors eases me into it. (view spoiler)[ Penis attachments sounds…aggressive. (hide spoiler)] I’m not typically a big fan of detailed sex in books so we’ll see! I own these so I’m going to try it out either way.

Honestly, that was me trying to find a politic/vague way of explaining what I was referring to, without spoiling too much... it's definitely not meant to be a fun scene/section... mostly to convey how far Phedre was willing to go, in that particular quest...

Good lordt. I've heard very mixed things... But I'm willing to give it a try with everyone :)

Okay, usually my first post is a lot closer to the top. But this'll have to do:

Thank you!

Projected reading schedule:

Phedre Trilogy:
1. Kushiel's Dart (March 1st)
2. Kushiel's Chosen (April 1st) [link]
3. Kushiel's Avatar (May 1st) [link]

Companion book: Cassiel's Servant (could read after Kushiel Trilogy, or wait for publication order)

(view spoiler)[Imriel (hide spoiler)] Trilogy
1. Kushiel's Scion (Aug 1st) [link]
2. Kushiel's Justice (Sept 1st) [link]
3. Kushiel's Mercy (Oct 1st) [link]

Moirin/Naamah Trilogy
1. Naamah's Kiss (TBD) [linkTBD]
2. Naamah's Curse (TBD) [linkTBD]
3. Naamah's Blessing (TBD) [linkTBD]

All books are on both Audible + and Hoopla in audiobook format.

I attempted to read this quite a while back and had to put it aside as I wasn't getting on with the prose at all; found it quite a difficult one to get into. I might join, I'll see.

@Iain, there's fricking nine books?! I thought it was just a trilogy!

Beena wrote: "I attempted to read this quite a while back and had to put it aside as I wasn't getting on with the prose at all; found it quite a difficult one to get into. I might join, I'll see.

@Iain, there's..."

They're 3 distinct trilogies... 3 about Phedre, 3 about someone in the next generation, and 3 far enough in the future to avoid overlap/cameos, I think...

Yeah, as Iain said, first 3 are Phedre, next 3 are a next-gen character introduced in the first trilogy, and last 3 are mmm... great-grandchild generation? First two trilogies are Medieval Era esque, third one is Age of Exploration level.

Hence just scheduling first trilogy, then when we finish, we can see how folks want to continue.

I really want to read the new Cassiel's Servant, though it hasn't been getting that great reviews. Kind of a treat for fans, but not special otherwise.

Cheers for the info guys. Yeah, I'm not sure my interest will stretch as far as all nine...

Beena wrote: "Cheers for the info guys. Yeah, I'm not sure my interest will stretch as far as all nine..."

Try for a book or a trilogy, see where your heart/interest/whim/mood read dowsing stick leads you!

Felina wrote: "Okay, that does sounds more like what I’ve heard. Hopefully the authors eases me into it. [spoilers removed] I’m not typically a big fan of detailed sex in books so we’ll see! I own these so I’m go..."

I have a really hard time with graphic sex scenes or romance books period... but I love these books... it's really more about the worldbuilding and characters...

Sex scenes are just so cringe. And being an audio only reader now, you can’t effectively skip past it. I used to read a fair amount of smut but in my older days (turned 40 two weeks ago 👵) I just have no taste for it. I remember listening to raunchy things at work and being afraid people could somehow hear it. 😂😂

And I find I can’t really do romance books where the point of the story is the romance. I usually fade out of those. But I usually always want some version of romance in any book I’m reading.

I like some plot, too...

You guys aren't looking forward to Coaxing the Turtle? ;)

It's definitely the ritualized term from this series that seems to stick with me, every time the topic comes up...

Oh good heavens. 😂🥴

I remember when I was younger and trying to read smut I read some steam punk weirdy sex books where they referred to a ladies bits as ‘quim’ and I’ve never quite recovered. Actually, those might be why I hate smut. 🤔

Felina wrote: "Oh good heavens. 😂🥴

I remember when I was younger and trying to read smut I read some steam punk weirdy sex books where they referred to a ladies bits as ‘quim’ and I’ve never quite recovered. Act..."

Christine Feehan or Kresley Cole used the term 'velvet helmet' once...

And Lora Leigh uses the word "frothy"...

And Carolyn Crane is known for the adjective "cucumbery"...

Wow. Those are interesting. I’m going to challenge myself to include all of those terms in an attempt to seduce my husband.

LOL I'm pretty much the same way regarding sex scenes--I'll hit the 30 sec skip forward button and will have a perpetual "ew" look on my face... but for some reason, the scenes in these books don't bother me... maybe because they're mostly metaphorical and almost technical? Most of the sex scenes are plot, not emo romance sex, rather sneaky spy sex... in fact, the one romantic scene I remember is a fade-to-black...

Oh man I LOVE the first 2 trilogies of this series. I might join in fora reread if I have the time.

Timelord Iain wrote: "Felina wrote: "Oh good heavens. 😂🥴

I remember when I was younger and trying to read smut I read some steam punk weirdy sex books where they referred to a ladies bits as ‘quim’ and I’ve never quite..."

VELVET HELMET

Felina wrote: "Sex scenes are just so cringe. And being an audio only reader now, you can’t effectively skip past it. I used to read a fair amount of smut but in my older days (turned 40 two weeks ago 👵) I just h..."

On The Office when Phyllis listened to 50 Shades of Grey and they threw a bucket of water on her lol

I'll definitely be interested in what y'all think once we get into these books... but if you want to get a little idea of the feel of the book--Daniel Greene has a nice review from someone who was pretty skeptical going into it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fii36...

As for the prose, it does hit a bit purple, but if you can get through the first few bits (or try audio), I found I acclimatized pretty easily...

Then again--please, start out with low expectations. Then people will enjoy it more, right?

What does purple mean?

"Purple Prose" definition: "Purple prose is flowery and ornate writing that makes a piece of text impenetrable. It is characterised by long sentences, multi-syllabic words, excessive emotion, and a plethora of clichés. It's typically melodramatic and often too poetic."

I probably wouldn't go so far as to say impenetrable, but the prose is a very flowery writing style in passive voice.

Oh interesting. I feel like that’s how Guy Gabriel Kay is. His writing is like velvet.

I think... maybe Kay's writing is a little more dense and Carey's a little more flowery. I do love Guy Gavriel Kay though... looking forward to Tigana BR coming up soon!

Me too!!

I only ever read the first book in the series, but have such an awesome memory of it. It came at the perfect time when I needed something absorbing. Staying up all night to finish even though I had an exam the next day sort of book. I remember getting to a climactic part and realizing - what!? I'm not even halfway through!? what else could possibly happen? Just how much book did she fit into this book!? *stares at paperback in disbelief*

I also remember a friend picking the book off my bedroom shelf and teasingly finding the salacious bits to read aloud. I got quite irritated and wanted to go into a diatribe, "No, you don't understand the political context! It's all about information and power dynamics!"

Not that there's anything wrong with titillating smut, either. It can be done well, where they incorporate characterization and worldbuilding, and humor, and some hot damns. But I'm also an exclusive eye-reader, so it's easy to skim or skip them over. Also less mortifying than listening. Dear lord, one time a friend tried to play aloud a section that I had read before, stone faced, and at hearing the audio I'm sure I turned red as a cherry.

LOL what's even more fun and mortifying is to read said sections aloud in a salacious voice to an audience. I used to enjoy trolling my friends that way.... or reading them like a robot... or with random accents...

Dittoing that note about the climax--one of the things I love about all her stories is that there's a rather extended denouement in each of them, a nice wind-down picture of "after" in each...

Going to give this a try.
I have had this on my TBR forever. Have never read Jacqueline Carey.

Be very aware that the MC is a courtesan in a ritualized world...

We were joking months ago about the sex terms in this series, like Coaxing the Turtle...

This'll be my 3rd read-through of the first and maybe second trilogy (I forget)...

Started a few hours ago... 1/3 through the book... nearing the end of Part 1 (I don't think the story is split into parts, but you'll know when you reach the end of Part 1)...

(view spoiler)[there's something about this book... it just flows so well... I don't even mind the foreshadowing the way I usually do in books, it flows so well... (hide spoiler)]

50%: well into Part 2... as much as I remember Part 1 of Kushiel's Dart, I largely forget which events happen in which book past that... (view spoiler)[the series is very much a travelogue series... plots conspire to get Phedre traveling around large swaths of the world, and learning of the cultures therein... (hide spoiler)]

The narrative voice/foreshadowing reminds me a bit of Helena narrating in Empire of the Wolf, though more subtle... and I think, but am not sure, that it dies down once Phedre is older... I'm not sure at what point the narrative POV is looking from.

re: 50%--(view spoiler)[one of the things I love about this (and Temeraire too) is that travelogue aspect--seeing the fantasy version of different parts of the world... (hide spoiler)]

Definitely picking this up once I finish Godkiller... been looking forward to this reread for years...

I’ll pick this up soon. Hopefully this year I’ll get past the first book 🤞🏽

Hopefully... the series has great worldbuilding... only reason I never finished out the last trilogy, is that book 6 was an easy pause poiint, since I knew there was a large time/era jump between book 6-7...

I'm not going to be able to do this reread as I'm still trying to finish up Feb books I signed up for, but just want to say this is one of my favorite series so I hope the newbies enjoy it as much as I did. The first half of the first book was a little sloggy for me, but once it got going it really got going.

Timelord Iain wrote: "Hopefully... the series has great worldbuilding... only reason I never finished out the last trilogy, is that book 6 was an easy pause poiint, since I knew there was a large time/era jump between b..."

First 2 trilogies were amazing. I think I loved the second one even more than the first. I think I gave up reading at book 8 though and never read book 9 cuz the last trilogy is just excuses for smut. And while I love a smutty book, I want there to be a plausible plot attached to it.

Diana Stormblessed wrote: "I'm not going to be able to do this reread as I'm still trying to finish up Feb books I signed up for, but just want to say this is one of my favorite series so I hope the newbies enjoy it as much ..."

Yea... the first 10hrs or so (a book unto it's own really) is all the childhood / training stuff needed to setup the rest of the series, basically...

Timelord Iain wrote: "Diana Stormblessed wrote: "I'm not going to be able to do this reread as I'm still trying to finish up Feb books I signed up for, but just want to say this is one of my favorite series so I hope th..."

Yeah, that beginning part was just meh to me. But after the (view spoiler)[ stumbling on the death scene (hide spoiler)] it got way better

Got started a bit later than I planned, but well into the story by now, about 50% in... this is one of my favorite series... even the slow start... in addition to the travel and cultures, I also love how each of these has an extended denouement, taking its time to wrap up story lines after the main climax... which sounds rather sexual in book context, but would be an apt metaphor.

I really enjoy the last trilogy as well, though not quite as much as the original. Perhaps because it travels to some of my favorite parts of the world...

Got started a bit later than I planned, but well into the story by now, about 50% in... this is one of my favorite series... even the slow start... in addition to the travel and cultures, I also love how each of these has an extended denouement, taking its time to wrap up story lines after the main climax... which sounds rather sexual in book context, but would be an apt metaphor.

I really enjoy the last trilogy as well, though not quite as much as the original. Perhaps because it travels to some of my favorite parts of the world...

Some 50% in thoughts... (view spoiler)[I love how this book creates an entire culture which elevates sex to an art form--and there is ZERO shame or sin associated with sex. Any act done in love is holy, for men or women... it's a very forward-thinking and refreshing stance... The origin of the religion works so well woven into the story as well, such great world building...

Knowing the whole of the story, I keep noticing bits of foreshadowing, or things that make me think "ah, if only you knew..." much like the narrator, lol. I am amazed that Alcuin and Phedre never imagined that Delaunay's connection would be to the Crown Prince rather than his wives and lovers--Delaunay's patronage of Alcuin was holding up Rolande's promise, and the nickname "Antinous" especially--Antinous was a lover of Emperor Hadrian, and was deified after his death by imperial rule (yes, this is in our world, but still). He was a symbol of male beauty and homosexuality.

Listening to this for the first time, the pronunciations of names are sometimes hard to follow--they sound nothing like what they are written (French!!)--I had long thought Alcuin to be a soft s of a c, not a hard k. (hide spoiler)]

Yall are giving me high hopes for this! Im only about 23% in, but im intrigued so far, if a bit slow... will probably save judgement till a bit further in

Ahhh I’m so behind. I definitely want to read this and I’m pretty sure I’m the one who submitted for this one. I got sidetracked and now I’m trying to recover and figure out how to fit everything back into what remains of the month.