The Catholic Book Club discussion

2. What other books have read about or by Augustine? How does this compare?

I have read twice The Confessions of St. Augustine, written in 398, and once The City Of God: Augustine Of Hippo, written between 412 and 426, both books masterpieces of religious literature. I have more of his books, but haven't read them yet.

This is the first biography about Augustin that I've read, although rather than a biography, this book is a biographical novel. There are a few places where this can be noticed.

It is not a biography is a novel about Saint Augustine De Wohl wrote novels about saints or about the Catholic Church.

Fonch wrote: "It is not a biography is a novel about Saint Augustine De Wohl wrote novels about saints or about the Catholic Church."

That's what I said!

But a humble servant who read more novels of Louis de Wohl i confirm your opinion ;-).

I read the Confessions thirty years ago.

Manuel wrote: "This is the first biography about Augustin that I've read, although rather than a biography, this book is a biographical novel. There are a few places where this can be noticed."

What places in particular are you thinking about?

I've also read The Confessions of St. Augustine twice, once nearly twenty years ago, shortly after my reversion to the Church, and then again about 10 years ago. I've also read City of God and I have several collections of his writings that I haven't read yet. I am currently reading a collection of commentary on the bible by the Church Fathers, where Augustine is one of the more prolific.

John wrote: "Manuel wrote: "This is the first biography about Augustin that I've read, although rather than a biography, this book is a biographical novel. There are a few places where this can be noticed."

What places in particular are you thinking about?"

For example, where Augustin receives the news that his father is dead and immediately Melania tells him that she's with child. This coincidence is typical in a novel, rather than in real life, even though coincidences do happen in real life too.

Augustin doesn't mention this in his Confessions. The first reference to his father's death is in book III chapter IV, where he says "it was two years since my father's death," and the first reference to his son doesn't happen until book IX chapter VI, when the boy was about fifteen. As to Melania, he never even names her.

This quotation is from a review of a new book titled Queens of a Fallen World, by Kate Cooper, as it appears in this weekend’s Wall Street Journal, October 7-8, 2023:

‘’In the year 391, a brilliant 36-year-old professor who was on track to become a senator of the Roman Empire was instead ordained a Catholic priest. Four years later, he was a bishop, even though he had been a baptized Christian for less than a decade.
“It was customary for Christian clergymen to be married, even as monastic celibacy was on the rise . . . This young bishop himself had several chances to marry. Before his conversion, he had cohabited with one woman, raising a son with her . . . Also, in his early 30s, he became betrothed to a young heiress of high rank.
‘’But the man broke off this engagement, determining in time that, even if he would marry neither the heiress nor his son’s mother, he owed the latter the fidelity implied by neither marrying nor having sex with anyone so long as she lived . . . He chose celibacy for the rest of his days, both as a penitential offering to God and as a way of honoring the woman who had been veritably a wife to him for so long. He then recorded his confusion and pain over these matters in one of the world’s earliest autobiographies. In his writings he would further consider the views and experiences of women — treating them more as men’s equals than was conventional then — in ways that would indelibly mark Christian civilization.
‘’This is Saint Augustine of Hippo as historian Kate Cooper portrays him in her highly readable, well-researched and imaginative book, Queens of a Fallen World: The Lost Women of Augustine’s Confessions. An expert on social and cultural developments in late antiquity, Ms. Cooper manages to offer fresh takes on one of the most analyzed thinkers of all time. Putting his writings into conversation with numerous contemporary sources, she spotlights — as much on their own terms as possible — the four most important women in Augustine’s life. These were his mother, St. Monica; his long-term concubine, whom she calls ‘Una’ where existing sources do not provide a name; his spurned adolescent fiancée, whom she names ‘Tacita,’ and the Roman empress Justina, mother of Valentinian II.
‘’Justina, Ms. Cooper argues, influenced Augustine’s career trajectory and the life he eventually offered God through her sparring matches with his mentor, St. Ambrose of Milan . . .
‘’To those of us who thought we knew Augustine well, Queens of a Fallen World opens new vistas on his world and legacy. Ms. Cooper shows how his life and thought were imprinted by women from diverse strata with whom he had real and complicated relationships. Her treatments of all figures in her book demonstrate sympathy and respect not only for their complex humanity and circumstances, but also for their religious beliefs and spiritual factors at work among them. Ms. Cooper illustrates how faith grounded her subjects’ experiences while calling them all toward something higher and more satisfying than the world around them could offer on its own.’’

This review is written by Bronwen McShea who teaches Church history for the Augustine Institute. I haven’t read Queens of a Fallen World but am printing the review because it appears at the very time that the Catholic Book Club is studying the life of St. Augustine.

Frances wrote: "This quotation is from a review of a new book titled Queens of a Fallen World, by Kate Cooper..., as it appears in this weekend’s Wall Street Journal, October 7-8, 2023:
‘’This young bishop himself had several chances to marry."

This is not correct. Saint Augustine had one chance to marry before he was a baptized Christian, not as a "young bishop." Augustine was consecrated as bishop in 395. Five years before, the council of Cartage had said this: All bishops, presbyters and deacons, custodians of purity, should abstain from conjugal relations with their wives, so that those who serve at the altar can maintain perfect chastity." The bishops present also mentioned that with this decree they were not creating a novelty, but rather were preserving what the apostles taught and the ancients observed.

Frances wrote: "...it appears at the very time that the Catholic Book Club is studying the life of St. Augustine."

Actually, we are reading a novel about St.Augustine's life. To learn more about his life one must read The Confessions of St. Augustine

I have the confessions of Saint Augustine in my list of books that i am reading at this moment.

It is really curious that the Professor says because i remember that in other Louis de Wohl's Novel "Citadels of God" about Saint Benedict one of the enemies of the Saint is a married priest.

There’s no disagreement between us, Manuel. I just wanted members of the group to be aware of one of the most recent books about St. Augustine so that, if need be, they can be prepared to counter the secular perspective.

Frances wrote: "There’s no disagreement between us, Manuel. I just wanted members of the group to be aware of one of the most recent books about St. Augustine so that, if need be, they can be prepared to counter..."

Yes, I was aware that I was criticizing the review, not you.

John wrote: "Manuel wrote: "This is the first biography about Augustin that I've read, although rather than a biography, this book is a biographical novel. There are a few places where this can be noticed."

What places in particular are you thinking about?"

There is another coincidence, proper of a novel, but not so much of a biography, at the end of book IV, where Monica arrives at Cartago just before Augustine travels to Rome. In the Confessions (Book V chapter 8) Augustine tells more or less the same story, but does not mention that coincidence. It may be deduced from the text that Monica had been living with him for some time.