You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

One of the group reads for November is The Treeline: The Last Forest and the Future of Life on Earth by Ben Rawlence Please discuss the book in this thread.

Saar will be leading the discussion, and Jayme will join soon.

In order to receive a badge you must:
1. have read the book before or during November 2023.
2. discussed it in this thread. Discussion must be more than "I read the book and I liked it". Discussion requires something more substantial and analytical of what you read, for example, thoughts, opinions, impact it had on you, what was your favorite part, was it what you expected it to be like etc. You may also like to review the book and post a link to the review in this thread. Please refer to our group spoiler policy for further information.
3. Report that you have read AND discussed the book in the reporting thread (include a brief summary of what you thought of the book).

A note on discussion: Discussion must be more than "I read the book and I liked it". Discussion requires something more substantial and analytical of what you read, for example, thoughts, opinions, impact it had on you, what was your favorite part, was it what you expected it to be like etc.

In addition to this, the group reads are meant to be a "read along" so it is preferable that you discuss the book as you read rather than wait until you've finished the book.

And finally, discussion is not about just listing your thoughts. Please interact with the other group members, comment on their thoughts, and if they comment on yours, respond to them. This is what makes a good book discussion!

You may also like to review the book and post a link to the review in this thread.

Please refer to our group spoiler policy for further information.

General Rules:
1. Please mark your spoilers with the spoiler tags along with mentioning what stage of the book you are at so other's don't get a nasty shock. Chapter numbers/titles are generally best as they are the same across all formats and editions. See our spoiler policy
2. The book may be combined with the Year Long Challenge, Topplers, and Monthly Challenges.

Happy reading!

I am going to be reading this book as soon as I get the hb copy from my library, hopefully in the next two or three days.

I got the audio of this from my library. I have a couple of other library books that I need to listen to first but I should be starting this probably early next week.

Great. Saar and I are also waiting for our copies.

I am back up and running, 😀 so I can take the discussion lead if that's ok with you Saar or we can co-lead?
I am finishing my current read today and will start our book tomorrow.

Welcome back, Jayme! Good to see you!

Good that you're on the net again, Jayme. I don't know about Sandra, but you can take the lead. I've done the last one.

Yay, Jayme!

Saar The Book owl wrote: "Good that you're on the net again, Jayme. I don't know about Sandra, but you can take the lead. I've done the last one."

Of course. 🌞

I just got a notice from my library that the book is ready for me to pick up. I am sneaking out early to go pick it up! Yay!

Glad you're back up and posting, Jayme. ✨🎉

I picked up my hard copy from the library and read the first 15 pages.

On page 8 (view spoiler)[’The trees are on the move.” I can’t think about this without seeing the walking trees from The second Lord of the Rings movie. (hide spoiler)]
Interesting so far. I kept trying to doze off though. It was after work and starting to get dark. I wanted dinner and a cup of coffee!
I have those now, so I will see how much more I can read tonight. I need to finish Mexican Gothic for my yearly challenge and figure out what to read format my fruit picks on the monthly challenge.

Cherie wrote: "I picked up my hard copy from the library and read the first 15 pages.

On page 8 [spoilers removed]
Interesting so far. I kept trying to doze off though. It was after work and starting to get dar..."

Hahaha... I just finished the prologue and was also trying not to nod off, not that it isn't interesting, but I think this is a book that you have to read slowly to absorb all the information.

Finished the prologue. I must confess that I really haven't given the Boreal forest a passing thought. It just wasn't something that was on my radar until I picked up this book at the book exchange and started skimming the prologue to decide if I wanted to buy it. But the idea (view spoiler)[ that the Boreal forest is more important than the Amazon rain forest got my attention. I had no idea that it covered 1/5 of the globe and contains 1/3 of the earth's trees.
But what really was mind boggling is the idea that we should be worried and terrified because climate change is causing the Boreal forest to move further north and is taking over the artic ice space. I thought that we wanted more trees, but it seems we want more trees in the right place. Who knew? (hide spoiler)]

I started it yesterday and have read the prologue.
I was finding it a bit dry with the info but I hope I get more into it.

(view spoiler)[
I also was surprised to read that the boreal rather than the Amazon is the lungs of the earth. I'm a bit skeptical of it but hoping to learn more. The author talks about the end of humanity like it's around the corner. I too was surprised about how bad it was for the trees to be moving north, and how fast they are moving. Should be an interesting book (hide spoiler)]

I've got my copy since yesterday and will start tomorrow. I'm excited! It has been on my TBR-pile for some time.

Vicki wrote: "I started it yesterday and have read the prologue.
I was finding it a bit dry with the info but I hope I get more into it.
"
I'm halfway through the next chapter "The Zombie Trees" and it doesn't seem as dry with the info dumping. It seems to be reading as a memoir with information because he is now visiting each of the trees and forests that he mentioned in the prologue and it seems more personal.
(view spoiler)[ I also was skeptical about his information and googled the author to find out more about him. He seems legit, but his focus prior to this was on human rights in Africa. Quit a jump. (hide spoiler)]

I was sick Friday and most of today but I feel better this evening. It wasn’t raining tonight so took my old truck out for a drive on the freeway to keep the battery charged. I covered it with the tarp to keep the rain off the top (there is a leak that I haven’t found yet) and have been reading for about an hour.

I am in The Zombie Forrest section.
(view spoiler)[ Darn! The story of the granny tree was depressing! I want to start a writing campaign to get someone to repair the deer fence to keep the deer out and let the baby trees have a chance to grow! (hide spoiler)]

I've started yesterday and today I'm also in the Zombie Forrest section. I'm going to try to follow the comments, but I'm reading the Dutch translation. Chapters can be a bit different.

About the prologue, I would like to refer to the documentairy on Netflix: 'Life on our planet', produced by Steven Spielberg and narated by Morgan Freeman. It's realy interesting and there are also parts about trees that can be related to this book:
(view spoiler)[It was told in the documentairy that there used to be no grass at all. Everything was bushes, moss, bushes, trees...First there was lichen and then everything evolved during millions of years. It was only due to the last great fires, that the trees dissapeared and grass became to rule. Also, the pinetrees evolved in Northern America, because they were the only ones who could survive the cold climat. (hide spoiler)]

Cherie wrote: "I picked up my hard copy from the library and read the first 15 pages.

On page 8 [spoilers removed]
Interesting so far. I kept trying to doze off though. It was after work and starting to get dar..."

Haha, my first thought was also the elder trees in LOTR.

Jayme wrote: "Finished the prologue. I must confess that I really haven't given the Boreal forest a passing thought. It just wasn't something that was on my radar until I picked up this book at the book exchange..."

Yes, that's what me got confused too! I mean (view spoiler)[scientists are always saying that trees are the green lungs onf the earth, but maybe that's only for the rain forest? With the Boreal forest I've got the idea it's more like tides: it takes over the arctic and draws back, goes forward and back again. But now it seems to move more forwards than it's backing up. I don't quite understand why yet. Could it be that it changes the environments and other species dies out or are reducing? (hide spoiler)]

Vicki wrote: "I started it yesterday and have read the prologue.
I was finding it a bit dry with the info but I hope I get more into it.


I also was surprised to read that the boreal rather than the Amazon is t..."

I didn't found the prologue a bit dry, but I needed to reread some sentences to understand it better. (view spoiler)[It's a bit dooming that the humans did it again, but in fact it is. Okay, the animals are creating also the dispersion of the seeds, like in their faeces or hanging at their coates, but mostly we, the humans, are interfering in a bad way. I didn't know that there were stumps of trees burried that are 900 years old! (hide spoiler)]

I think I'm going to take some side notes to understand it better. It's an interesting book so far, because a lot of things mentioned in the book I can relate to some courses I've followed for vet tech assistant: like sustainability, ecology, biomes...

The part that striked me so far was:
(view spoiler)[the author talking about the 2 yew trees: the female one with the red, deadly berries and the male one, without the berries. They were entangeled like lovers with their roots. Did you know that almost every part of the yew tree is toxic? Only a few birds can eat the berries, like snowbirds, redwings... (hide spoiler)]

Cherie wrote: "I was sick Friday and most of today but I feel better this evening. It wasn’t raining tonight so took my old truck out for a drive on the freeway to keep the battery charged. I covered it with the ..."

I know that's what I kept thinking too, Cherie. (view spoiler)[Why isn't there a group trying to protect the granny tree and her babies (hide spoiler)]

Saar The Book owl wrote: "I've started yesterday and today I'm also in the Zombie Forrest section. I'm going to try to follow the comments, but I'm reading the Dutch translation. Chapters can be a bit different.

About the ..."

Thanks for the heads up on the documentary. I will give it a look.

Saar The Book owl wrote: "I think I'm going to take some side notes to understand it better. It's an interesting book so far, because a lot of things mentioned in the book I can relate to some courses I've followed for vet ..."

I just finished a class in October to become a Tree Steward in my town and they talked a lot about how (view spoiler)[ trees communicate through their roots and how they couldn't survive without the fungi. We have three Crepe Myrtle trees in our front yard and I wonder now how they are communicating. (hide spoiler)]

Jayme wrote: "Saar The Book owl wrote: "I think I'm going to take some side notes to understand it better. It's an interesting book so far, because a lot of things mentioned in the book I can relate to some cour..."

Oh yeah it's so interesting how they communicate. Much more than I ever gave trees credit for. Now I am kind of depressed we had to cut down one of our two ash trees because it was spilt and threatening a neighbour's garage.

I'm finding the author a bit ridiculous. In the first part of Scotland (view spoiler)[he didn't bring water and so he drank bog water when he got thirsty. And then next place he went to look at some forests on islands and didn't bring a boat or kayak so he swam there. And then drank the water just for fun too. I don't believe him but I am enjoying the history of forests of Britain (hide spoiler)]

Zombie Forest
I started reading this yesterday. I am huge fan of forests and trees and find pockets of them here in Korea. Super interesting to hear how human activities (view spoiler)[ like land acquisition and the right to possess the land have had a huge impact years later. I never thought of it that way before. I take it for granted that we need a place to live and the system to do that is to buy property. (hide spoiler)] I am interested to read more because when I look at photos of places to travel to, I think 'oh, that's what that country looks like,' but in fact, that photo was probably take years ago and there could be a lot of changes to how it looks now.

Jayme wrote: "Saar The Book owl wrote: "I think I'm going to take some side notes to understand it better. It's an interesting book so far, because a lot of things mentioned in the book I can relate to some cour..."

I am sorry to hear that you have to cut down your ash tree but if it's becomes an obstacle to yourself or others then you have to. I heard of a tree that had to be cut down recently because it fell on a river and was blocking the water flow to the other plants and wildlife in the area.

Grainne wrote: "Zombie Forest
I started reading this yesterday. I am huge fan of forests and trees and find pockets of them here in Korea. Super interesting to hear how human activities [spoilers removed] I am int..."

I found it interesting about the impact that deer have on a forest. I had no idea.

Hey all just an FYI that I won't be online the next couple of days. We are having elections in my state and I am working the polls Tuesday and doing prep work on Monday. Will be back Wednesday.
Happy Reading!

Vicki - you hit it on the head! “I’m finding the author a bit ridiculous.”
I am not bashing him for what he is saying specifically, but what he does. In other things, he makes statements without giving any hint of why behind him. Loch Maree Example (view spoiler)[ re the pine hoverfly: “No wonder it is almost extinct in Scotland.” I had to think about why I cared about this, but first, I had to look up the little guy and see what his role in the forest was. Got it - the adult flies are pollinators - especially significant for the rowen.
I couldn’t believe that he jumped into the water and swam across to the island and his thoughts as he was half way across. Did he leave a note with his clothes??? (hide spoiler)]

Saar The Book owl wrote: "I've started yesterday and today I'm also in the Zombie Forrest section. I'm going to try to follow the comments, but I'm reading the Dutch translation. Chapters can be a bit different.

About the ..."
I am watching that one right now with the hubs - it's really good.

I started this one today. I am through the Scotland section and into the next one. I was interested in the discussion about the bogs. I haven't been to Scotland, but my mom lived in Ireland for many years and I lived there with her on and off and peat just seems like a natural part of that world so it was weird to hear that it was in part due to losing trees that the peat flourishes. I still do miss the smell of a peat fire! Here in the Salt Lake Valley our pollution gets so bad that we aren't even allowed to burn fires.

I am in chapter 2 - Chasing Reindeer now but just wanted to comment on the great Wildwood experiment in the Zombie Forest (view spoiler)[ Another downer at the end. They are proceeding with the wildwood experiment to cull the deer and bring back the pine forest and habitat for the birds in Scotland, knowing that it will probably fail in less than 100 years. I commend them but feel so bereft at the same time. (hide spoiler)]

The descriptions of the temperature changes on the snow quality and the reindeer feeding situation in the first part of chapter 2 were really interesting. To me snow has always been just COLD. I hate it !

Cherie wrote: "Vicki - you hit it on the head! “I’m finding the author a bit ridiculous.”
."
I also am taking the author with "a grain of salt." He does seem to be rather forgetful and with his head in the clouds. But I do commend him for bringing awareness to this issue. I googled his Black Mountain College in Wales and I wouldn't mind taking a few of the short courses. I think I'd meet a lot of interesting people.

Finishing the chapter "Chasing Reindeer"

I think what I am liking about this book is that Rawlence takes the overwhelming and frightening topic of climate change and narrows it down to one tree, one creature and shows the impact that climate change can wreck on that species. He gives concrete evidence in "bite size" which are really great talking points if you end up having the conversation "that climate change is fake" with someone.
(view spoiler)[ Just the fact that a few weeks stretch (or a few days) of warm weather in the tundra can kill thousands of reindeer was tragic. That's tangible to me and makes climate change real and not just a concept. (hide spoiler)]

I just finished the Chasing Reindeer section. I never gave the tundra nor reindeer connection much thought before. I always think of Alaska when I hear about tundra, but I know that is a very narrow view. It is just what one hears about the most, I guess. (view spoiler)[The Sami outlooks and stories were interesting. Their ties to the birch tree and their reindeer are everything to them and it seems that their outlook for climate change is better for them, as humans, than a lot of other indigenous people. Their herds may get smaller but it seems that they will be able to adapt to the climate changes. I liked their attitude about government. It felt as if the author left trees for the Sami story in this chapter. The town "in the middle" did not sound like a very inviting place to visit. (hide spoiler)]

Jayme wrote: "Finishing the chapter "Chasing Reindeer"

I think what I am liking about this book is that Rawlence takes the overwhelming and frightening topic of climate change and narrows it down to one tree, o..."

Good point about using the specific to talk about the general with people who are still skeptical about climate change. Even though it does boggle the mind that we are still having to debate that...

I thought that I would read The Sleeping Bear chapter before I went to bed. HA! It is 2AM and I cannot stay awake any longer. The information is overwhelming! (view spoiler)[ a second drive of 140 miles in the Trekol with the Kolyas and Dima is embarking. (hide spoiler)]. I am going to bed.

@ Cherie - I totally agree that the information is overwhelming.

Finished the Sleeping Bear chapter -
Just when I thought things couldn't look more (view spoiler)[ dire now the idea of the permafrost melting releasing methane gas into the atmosphere ending life on earth as we know it is my new worry.
(I'm a disaster movie freak and as I was reading this chapter I thought the permafrost melting would make a really good disaster movie and maybe get people thinking, but then disaster movies have a happy ending with the heroes saving the world in the nick of time - not sure if it could happen in real life).

The impact of climate change on indigenous people was something I did not associate with climate change. I like how Rawlence is giving us the personal information about the ramifications. (hide spoiler)]

Finished The Frontier Chapter -
Reading this book is taking longer than I expected due to the density of the topic. That's ok - we don't always have to rush everything.

I found it very coincidental that as I was reading this chapter - focusing on white and black spruce - I needed to send a birthday card to a high school friend who lives in Anchorage. I never gave it a thought but she lives on White Spruce Road. I love it when the world aligns...
Anyway - There is so much in this chapter that were light bulb thoughts for me and things that I never knew. (view spoiler)[ I found it very interesting that the entire landscape of Alaska is changing due to climate change and that the idea of a tundra will be a historical term. "The beavers are creating a foot hold for more trees by creating more ponds/water and this water is warming the land. "
Something that I didn't know was that forests create rain. 50% of the rain on land originates from evaporation in trees (insert picture of brain exploding) and that the spruce forests in Alaska and Canada have a direct relationship with the rain in America's bread basket.
My take away is that everything on this beautiful planet is interconnected and we don't know what we have until it is gone. (hide spoiler)]

I will have to pass on this one. It is available for me to pick it up at the library, but with all the water pipes situation I got so behind both in my classes and my job that I will have to focus on that. I'm really sorry...

For such a dire book, I am enjoying it. And to think, for all the connections that most of us have never thought about that are brought up in this book - there are millions more that humans don't understand. The interconnected systems of life on Earth are so much more complicated than we realize. I wish more of us would take the long view and try to protect ecosystems before it is too late. I used to be of the opinion that the Earth is well capable of taking care of herself and would regenerate our damage and we are ultimately just killing ourselves (and many other species) but that life would continue. But then I watched a series about the solar system and found out that Venus was most likely similar to earth until the greenhouse gases hit a point of no return and remains lifeless planet so now I am not so sure.

I read the Chasing Reindeer chapter today and liked it a whole lot more. I have heard expressions like the Inuit have 20 words for snow and didn't quite get it until now (view spoiler)[ when they are out tracking the reindeer and can date the track based on crispness and texture of the snow was impressive. The way the trees melt the snow and create ice sheets or cause snow to drift too deep for the reindeer was so interesting and just another example of these seemingly tiny changes that mean life or death.

I also was struck by how no snow by the winter solstice would mean so much more darkness. I live in a snowy place so I understand how bright snow makes the night but it's just not something you think about. And reindeer see ultraviolet! How cool. And they use it to detect lichen in the snow. (hide spoiler)]

Katrisa wrote: "For such a dire book, I am enjoying it. And to think, for all the connections that most of us have never thought about that are brought up in this book - there are millions more that humans don't u..."

I always thought that too or heard it somewhere that the earth would rebound, if we let it. Like how the ozone is trying to fix the hole in it's layer, but as you now I'm not so sure :(

Vicki wrote: "I read the Chasing Reindeer chapter today and liked it a whole lot more. I have heard expressions like the Inuit have 20 words for snow and didn't quite get it until now when they are out tracking..."

I found the chapter on the reindeer to be really fascinating too. A lot of things clicked into place after reading that chapter.

I am still in The Sleeping Bear, finally at Ary Mas.
So much to take in! (view spoiler)[ It is funny to read about the author reporting on someone born in 1951 and learning that his whole way of life has disappeared and his comment about global warming was "tell my children". Part of me can relate. I am even older than that old Nganasan! (Not by much though.). It is hard to contemplate that his way of life and culture will end with him. (hide spoiler)]

I just finished reading The Frontier. It felt very nostalgic to me.
(view spoiler)[ I enjoyed the stories of the Koyukon people. I think the section where the author talked to Carl Burgett, the mayor of Huslia, really summed a lot of the way people feel about the global warming stuff: "people are no longer complaining, instead, the unnatural has become natural, the apocalyptic has become prosaic". Greif is a luxury. The urgent demands of daily life allow for no such respite or detachment. There is always work to be done." I am not saying we should not not do anything, but we all have to pick our battles. I hate all of the oil drilling in Alaska, but all I can do is vote against it. It horrifies me that the Koyukon land and their way of life could all come down to being destroyed by a road. The medicinal properties of the spruce were interesting. Maybe I need to spend more time in my back yard, under the huge blue spruce. It is right next to the fence in my neighbor's yard but much of it hangs over into mine. I remember when it was planted, at least 40 years ago. (hide spoiler)]

Cherie wrote: "I just finished reading The Frontier. It felt very nostalgic to me.
[spoilers removed]"

Cherie - (view spoiler)[The part about the Koyukon land being destroyed by the road really bothered me too and then to find out that they are going to build the road was heartbreaking. (hide spoiler)]