Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

This is a Buddy Read for Oathbringer and Dawnshard by Brandon Sanderson starting on October 16, 2024.


Happy Reading!

Thank you! Better book link: Oathbringer


Series Schedule:
1. The Way of Kings (Aug 16) [link]
2. Words of Radiance (Sept 16) [link]
2.5 Edgedancer (in above BR)
(also published in Arcanum Unbounded: The Cosmere Collection)
3. Oathbringer and 3.5 Dawnshard (Oct 16)
4. Rhythm of War (Nov 16) [link]
5. Wind and Truth (Dec 16) [link]

Audio: These used to be on Hoopla, but aren't anymore... maybe that will change. Two novellas are still there though. Not on A+.
Ebook: Not on KU, Hoopla, #2 & #4 on Open Library in preview mode.
If you find any universal/subscription copies, I will update.

Yea... I just fixed that book link in the thread title, that was linking this discussion to Graphic Audio 2/6 of book 3...

Anyway...

Hopping in early to setup a book spoiler question for people, when they reach about 50-75% through the book, and learn the full history of Voidbringers, once and for all...

(view spoiler)[How do you feel?... it was kinda right there all along...

Humans are the Voidbringers... THEY brought Odium from Braize, another planet in the Rosharan solar system, to Roshar...

Parshendi are the original inhabitants of Roshar, who generously gave the human refugees a place to live... and this is what they got for it...

This is one of the reasons for the Recreance (altho that'll be explored more in book 4, as well)...

And it was kinda staring you/us in the face all along... I mean... think back...

The first language of Roshar is called the Dawnchant... a long forgotten language that Dalinar speaks in during his visions of the past/Honor... a lyrical language... Parshendi call themselves Singers & Listeners... everything about them is lyrical...

It was staring us in the face all along, but there's obvious blinders on... (hide spoiler)]

Clicking that early will be a big spoiler, but I can't wait for some discussion on it... I've been sitting on this for 2 months, as an example of a certain type of spoiler...

I'm looking forward to it.

Should I start whining now about how long these are or wait until next month?

Ann-Marie wrote: "Should I start whining now about how long these are or wait until next month?"

Pshaw... Stormlight Archive books are usually split into 2x 600 page books in the UK for binding reasons...

Wandering Inn, Volume 6, was split into 5 parts for audio/ebook release:

The Wandering Inn: Book 10 - The Wind Runner -- https://www.goodreads.com/work/editio... -- 1334 pages -- 36.5hrs audio
The Wandering Inn: Book 11 - The Titan of Baleros -- https://www.goodreads.com/work/editio... -- 1526 pages -- 40.9hrs audio
The Wandering Inn: Book 12 - The Witch of Webs -- https://www.goodreads.com/work/editio... -- 1703 pages -- 45.9hrs audio
The Wandering Inn: Book 13 - The Empress of Beasts -- https://www.goodreads.com/work/editio... -- 1119 pages -- 29hrs audio
The Wandering Inn: Book 14 - Hell's Wardens -- https://www.goodreads.com/work/editio... -- 1007 pages -- 26.6hrs audio

So, that's 6689 pages combined, and 178.8hrs audio for what would otherwise just be Volume 6 in a web serial with 10 volumes and counting... and each volume seems to be thicker than the last... as you can tell from book titles, volume 1-5 only had 9 books... volume 1-2 only had 1 book each, then 3-4 had 2 books and 5 had 3 books... volumes 8-9 have closer to 10 books, but more in line with the lengths of books 13-14 than 11-12...

And we clamor for more/faster releases, when 3-5 audios already release each year...

Timelord Iain wrote: "Ann-Marie wrote: "Should I start whining now about how long these are or wait until next month?"

Pshaw... Stormlight Archive books are usually split into 2x 600 page books in the UK for binding re..."

And that is why I haven't started Wandering Inn yet! Also those audio lengths do not correspond with similar books, like Oathbringer for instance, 1243 pages and 55 hours 5 minutes. That is significant difference in audio lengths compared to page counts, weird.

Page counts vary alot, depending on how much of a book is dialogue, and how much is description / internal monologue... high fantasy tends to have some of the worst words per minute, when you compare audio to pagecount... that's why I track that in my spreadsheet to get an idea...

In my sheet, if a book is under 30 pages/hr, or a page every 2 minutes, it's colored red... if it's 30-40 pages/hr it's yellow, and if it's over 40/hr, it's green...

Stormlight Archives is 27-28 pages/hr, and I think Kate Reading is balancing out Michael Kramer a bit...

Witch of Webs is 37 pages/hr... my Animorphs books are like 45-55 pages/hr, since they're 2.5-4hrs and generally 150-250 pages of kids-sized books...

So I have heard some on the various book related social medias that this one is kind of a step down from Words of Radiance mainly due to the backstory included in this one. Should I temper my expectations? I was going to start today but I have a few others I started and put aside, I have been kind of all over the place this week so I think I'll get at least 2 of the ones I started finished before I jump in here. But please help me set the proper expectation with myself for this one lol

(view spoiler)[Dalinar is a pretty shitty person in his backstory… basically a brutal berserker… his boon/curse from the Nightwatcher made him a better person… that didn’t happen until after Gavilar died (remember he was too drunk that night to protect Gavilar from Szeth… altho alot of that guilt was removed after fighting Szeth in WoR and learning his powers)…

Basically, I’d agree Oathbringer in general isn’t as good as WoR… the plot is a bit all over the place with everyone off on their own tasks (Kaladin returning home then Kholinar, Shallan exploring Uruthiru and dealing with Ghostbloods, Dalinar trying to unite the world and learning more about Odium…

I think alot of cool worldbuilding happens, especially through the middle… and the ending is suitably epic… epic enough you might think this was a trilogy if you didn’t know there were 2 more books in the first arc…

The ending of this book has my #2 scene of the series so far, what I call The Clap ;) (not the STD)

I personally struggled more with #4… this’ll be my first re-read of #4 since it’s release… 2-3rd read of Oathbringer and 3-4th read of 1-2… (hide spoiler)]

I also think alot now about a youtube short where Sanderson talked about the importance of concrete worldbuilding/magic systems… knowing what’s possible makes it more epic when the rules are broken/surpassed…

I compare this alot to Cycle of Galand which is on it’s 6th/7th brand new magic system deus ex machina in 9-10 books… /sigh…

Timelord Iain wrote: "..."

Good to know, thanks :)

Prologue. Huh. (view spoiler)[Did I read that right? Did Gavilar just give the Listeners a void spren in a gem, starting the whole insane war to unite his people? Lordy. (hide spoiler)]

Narilka wrote: "Prologue. Huh. [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[Yea... Gavilar & Amaram & The Sons of Honor, are a bunch of wackos... thought bringing back the Voidbringers and Knights Radiant was a good idea...

This series is really like peeling back an onion... always another layer or pebble that kicked off the avalanche that is the main plot, if you keeping looking further back... (hide spoiler)]

Always another secret with Cosmere.

Never underestimate human's ability to make really bad decisions. Though I assume (view spoiler)[the Knights Radiant returning was likely only a matter of time. Gavilar and friends just hurried it along. (hide spoiler)]

Narilka wrote: "Always another secret with Cosmere.

Never underestimate human's ability to make really bad decisions. Though I assume [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[there's alot to be said for how much worse off the world might have been WITHOUT events playing out the way they did, to bring Kaladin, Dalinar, and Shallan together, etc etc etc...

All the people with an inkling of what was coming have had their own ulterior motives... Ghostbloods, Designists, etc...

Szeth could have succeeded in killing all his targets for Taravangian... the list goes on, really... and the butterfly effect of it all... it's like all the horrible futures in the animated Marvel show What If?... (hide spoiler)]

I started earlier today, just through ch10 (view spoiler)[Kaladin went home and of course blames himself for Tien's death despite being in no way responsible. I did enjoy him punching Roshone in the face but I wish he had kept going, this punch is for my friend whose name I can't remember but you had his grandparents killed, this punch if for me, this punch is for Tien (and then just keep punching him for his brother until he is dead!) but sadly that didn't happen.... (hide spoiler)]

ch 11 (view spoiler)[Taravangian is the bad guy, right? Odium or whatever his name is? And he responded to Dalinar's message? That can't be good....Also Alokhar is giving up his main throne to Dalinar? Things are happening and the book just started!!!!! (hide spoiler)]

Through part 1 & the interludes (view spoiler)[Jasnah is back with them!!!! And of course it ended right there.....I can see how Shallan and her personas could get tiresome, hoping it doesn't too much. I am also not minding Dalinar's backstory so far. Not sure what Kaladin is doing, I'm going to need him to get back to it! Enjoying it so far. (hide spoiler)]

Ann-Marie wrote: "ch 11 [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[

1) Taravangian is AN enemy/antagonist... altho he's the hero of his own story, doing what he must to save Roshar/Jah Keved from the coming Desolation...

2) The Desolation being triggered by Odium, the enemy of Honor and other Shards around the Cosmere...

3) Elhokar is still King of Alethkar... Dalinar is King of Uruthiru and the Knights Radiant, basically?... which is a step above petty kingdoms, theoretically...

Sanderson isn't afraid to shake things up and let the dust settle, and shake them up again... if you think this is big, wait until the next book, and presumably book 5, too... (hide spoiler)]

Regarding Desolations (view spoiler)[so they are triggered when the heralds return ti this world? Is this a gradual thing? When did Odium get back? Is this the desolation from when the guy at the end of book 1 got back? I know you are probably like OMG did you even read the books? but these are a lot and I am trying to keep shit straight in my head so please don't judge me too harshly :)

Also is Odium just in random people's heads right now? (hide spoiler)]

Ann-Marie wrote: "Regarding Desolations ..."

(view spoiler)[Long in the past Odium warred with Honor and others... Honor locked him to a duel of champions... when Honor's champions beat Odium's champion, he's send back to Damnation with his Voidbringers... but so are the Heralds... and Odium and the Voidbringers punish/torture the Heralds until they can't take it any more, and give in, and that releases Odium from Damnation... Odium coming to Roshar and causing havoc is what is known as the Desolations... more of a Rosharan term than official term...

Before the Breaking of the Oathpact, all 10 Heralds went back each time... but over the generations, they broke faster and faster and society reverted to the Stone Age... then they broke the Oathpact, and sent Taln back alone... Taln, the one Herald who never gave in... and Taln sustained the torture for 4500 years before finally breaking... and here we are in the present...

This Desolation is called the True Desolation for various reasons... Odium has been locked away a long time to plan... and the Everstorm is new... and a much faster way to forcibly Awaken Parshmen with red spren...

Red is a Cosmere color that indicates offworld interference in a magical ecosystem... it's seen here with basically everything to do with Odium, and in the Wax & Wayne trilogy of Mistborn with "Trell"...

You'll understand Desolations more as you read book 3, and understand how Odium's forces work... even I don't know everything... I'll be able to say much more about what I DON'T know towards the end of the book...

Odium is mostly in Dalinar's head talking directly... as Honor's pseudo-champion, bonded to the Stormfather, Honor's "godspren"...

With other people it's mostly the influences of the Unmade, which you're only slowly coming to meet/understand in this book... in books 1-2 the Unmade are occasionally mentioned in epigraphs... they're a series of 9 higher level spren that are Odium's equivalent of Heralds... they warp & mess with things/people in various ways... (hide spoiler)]

Okay I feel a little better that I haven't missed some huge thing, thanks! Just 1 thing about Taln (view spoiler)[is he the strongest bad ass in the Cosmere to last that long????? (hide spoiler)]

Ann-Marie wrote: "Okay I feel a little better that I haven't missed some huge thing, thanks! Just 1 thing about Taln [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[he's the Kaladin of Heralds... he was the only one of the 10 Heralds that wasn't a King/Queen/Princess beforehand... and did his duty the longest... (hide spoiler)]

Through part 2 and the interludes (view spoiler)[Entirely too much Moash and Amaran in this part! Shallan and her attitude are a bit annoying, like chick you are advanced but still have shit to learn from Jasnah! I loved the parts with Kaladin and the Bridge 4 crew, training them to fly and use shardlight to heal. I am glad I read the 2.5 "novella" since Lift and the child king are back. Liking it so far which is not a surprise but I am not loving that I still have nearly 15 hours left..... (hide spoiler)]

Through 76 and OMG (view spoiler)[Dalinar was responsible for his wife's death???? Okay, was not really expecting that lol (hide spoiler)]

You are zooming right through the book Ann-Marie! Guess that means it's good :D

Ann-Marie wrote: "I started earlier today, just through ch10 [spoilers removed]"

Yeah, I liked that too lol (view spoiler)[I'm glad he got the punch in and stopped. He could've broken his oath if he'd gone too far.

It's also nice being back with these characters after a month off.

Dalinar's flashback and the description of the Thrill. I can't decide if it's like going berserk but retaining control, a sort of battle-lust, or if it's a little like the rhythms of the listeners. (hide spoiler)]

Narilka wrote: "You are zooming right through the book Ann-Marie! Guess that means it's good :D"

I am enjoying it! I wish I had started over the weekend, it's going to be tomorrow before i finish because of listening while working. When I can dedicate a weekend day to listening while I prep for the week I can get a good chunk done!

Ann-Marie wrote: "Through 76 and OMG [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[Yea... it's the reason he became a bit of a drunkard... that and being a berserker barbarian with no wars to fight anymore...

Their marriage was so mismatched... (hide spoiler)]

Through Part 3 and the interludes (view spoiler)[So the group in Kholinar is trapped for now, no way they die, absolutely zero tension that Kaladin, Adolin or Shallen will die. I was a little surprised Ekholar was killed, stupid Moash especially considering Kaladin punched Roshone in the face for him! I am certain Kaladin will take the blame for his being friends with both sides of the fighting and then Shallan was like him for a while with that little boy that died, Spreng or something. I was happy to see Wit back, I like that character.

Also didn't mention it before but it sucks to see Sadeas back so much in Dalinar's flashbacks, I thought we were done with that guy? (hide spoiler)]

General questions:
Voidspren (view spoiler)[are Odium related spren that are bonded with some of the Parsheni? I am trying to picture them in my head and for the longest time I pictured Dementors but I am 99.9% sure that I am completely wrong lol There was that one interlude where the Parsheni couple got transformed but into different forms or something? I don't know.... (hide spoiler)]

Fused (view spoiler)[are the Odium equivalent to the Knights Radiants? (hide spoiler)]

I feel like I'll need to immediately re-read these when I finish but that is not happening lol

Ann-Marie wrote: "Through Part 3..."

(view spoiler)[This book in general, and killing Elhokar right as he's making his oaths to become Radiant, are basically the origins of r/fuckmoash for myself and others... altho he does plenty more to earn the title... also, alot of the stuff I say about how Moash is a dark mirror of Kaladin...

Elhokar tried so hard to be better and be like Kaladin... this all paves the way for Jasnah to be Queen of Alethkar... and I'm sure that'll cause a stir...

K/A/S ending up in Shadesmar is mostly a worldbuilding opportunity, as it lets us/Adolin meet Mayalaren his deadeyes spren shardblade, and the characters explore the Shadesmar world more... but also see when Odium/Fused/etc are doing there... the tension is in whether/how they'll return to Roshar before the war/battle happens... time will tell...

The flashbacks are an opportunity to revisit tons of dead characters, really...

Book 4's flashbacks are Venli & Eshonai... Book 5's flashbacks are Szeth... obviously, this also fills in more details of what set the series in motion, as well... (hide spoiler)]

Ann-Marie wrote: "General questions:
Voidspren [spoilers removed]

Fused [spoilers removed]

I feel like I'll need to immediately re-read these when I finish but that is not happening lol"

(view spoiler)[Parshendi forms are dictated by what type of spren ends up in their gemheart... Odium's voidspren corrupt this and take over...

Fused take this further, and are actually the souls of ancient dead Parshendi, so it's kinda analogous to Demons... you kill them and send them back to the Void, but they inevitably return, no weaker really...

Or a zombie army... if they could do the same to humans by forcing them to swallow a sphere, or something... (hide spoiler)]

You still got plenty of revelations left to go...

Re-reading wouldn't hurt... but neither would letting the plot marinate awhile before the inevitable re-read...

After some wiki checking, I can say you'll have one of the biggest revelations I've been alluding to since day 1, by the end of Part 4... the one I commented on in spoilers weeks ago, back at the top of the page...

Timelord Iain wrote: "After some wiki checking, I can say you'll have one of the biggest revelations I've been alluding to since day 1, by the end of Part 4... the one I commented on in spoilers weeks ago, back at the t..."

Well Part 4 is kind of lackluster so far (through ch98)....(view spoiler)[Szeth is back as a POV? Not my favorite especially when so much happened in part 3 that I want ot see resolved! The other characters have had sections so far so it's not all Szeth but man, I do not care about his training right now lol (hide spoiler)]

Szeth is important… persevere…

Ch 106 (view spoiler)[So Nale created Nightblade, right? And Nightblade is telling Szeth he thinks Nale might be insane? The guy who created it? That's super awesome..... (hide spoiler)]

Timelord Iain wrote: "Szeth is important… persevere…"

I know, I know but I care about the other characters so much more lol

No… Nightblade (view spoiler)[ was made by Zahel… he plays an Ardent on Roshar and trained Renarin & Kaladin in the previous book… they are from Warbreaker… Nightblood is like a Shardblade made from a different Shard/magic system’s investiture… it was made a bit wrong… Azure’s sword was made right from same book/planet/magic… (hide spoiler)]

I am not sure how I will keep the not major characters straight because not only are there like 1 million of them but most of them have like 27 different names!

ch 108 (view spoiler)[please tell me there will not be a cheesy love triangle between Kaladin, Shallan & Adolin.....That is not something I want to see in this series, shit is messy enough lol (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[Azure is the MC of Warbreaker… Vivenna… Zahel is the other dude she meets… Vasher?… they’re 2 of the most notable crossovers in Roshar, imo… most of the rest are cameos… (hide spoiler)]

There will not be a love triangle…

Timelord Iain wrote: "There will not be a love triangle…"

I am glad to hear but now I am also a bit worried lol

ch 111 and Taravangian (view spoiler)[sucks and I hate him..... (hide spoiler)]

Taravangian (view spoiler)[is the worst… you’re right on the cusp of the reveal… or just read it… you’ll need to go up and read my spoiler from weeks ago (hide spoiler)]

I finished part 4, interludes and am through ch 117 and OMG things are happening!!!! (view spoiler)[So humans came to this world after they ruined their world? Was it their fault or Odium's influence? Dalinar's memories of his culpability in his wife's death were "pruned" by Cultivation, right? I mean it makes sense, he'd never have overcome his issues to get where he is today otherwise.

Meanwhile chapter 117 SO MANY POVs!!!!! Szeth delivered like a badass, loved that so I am not mad he is back as a POV lol I am also on Team Lift so far, I like the character quite a lot :) That Ash chick is a herald as well? She referred to "us" when she saved Taln....There is no way Dalinar turns bad, I will be annoyed if he does. (hide spoiler)]

And I have a family thing after work, will be finishing today for sure but it's going to be a few hours and I am very sad!!!!! I need to know what happens!!!!!

Also (view spoiler)[Amaran sucks too, hate that guy! (hide spoiler)]

Ann-Marie wrote: "I finished part 4, interludes and am through ch 117 and OMG things are happening!!!!..."

(view spoiler)[Yes... humans are the original Voidbringers... Voidbringers is more of a title/descriptor, than direct name of a thing... Odium = the Void...

And I think it's a bit of a Chicken & Egg situation... when your planet's Shard is Odium/Hatred, hatred is gonna fester and escalate...

And yes... Cultivation is a meddler with her own nebulous motives... on occasion she does things that are basically stronger versions of what the Nightwatcher does...

For Dalinar, she suppressed the memories of his wife, to help him heal and be strong again... for reasons (I'll say a bit more after part 5)...

She also meddled with Taravangian... and Lift...

Szeth + Lift make for a great Buddy Cop movie duo... Lift is great in ensemble situations... I just get a bit tired of her in bulk... altho I haven't really had any problems during this readthrough so far...

Now that you know Szeth has switched sides, I can safely tell you that his flashbacks are gonna be book 5... Lift is book 6 and the start of the 2nd arc, so 10-15 years in the future when she's in her twenties...

Ash = Shalash, Herald of Beauty... she's the one that's been going around scratching up statues and artwork of her image... bit crazy :D

Ash's father is Jezrien, Herald of Kings

Renarin is the flashbacks for book 7...
Ash/Shalash is the flashbacks of book 8...
Taln is the flashbacks of book 9...
Jasnah is the flashbacks of book 10...

And yea... there's alot of POVs here in Part 5... I think Bridge 4 was lumped together as a single listing at the start of Part 5 to cut down on listings...

Also, this section of the story is just littered with reveals and ramifications...

Renarin (view spoiler)[being bonded to a void-warped spren, causing him to see visions of the future... he's the one who wrote the numbers on the wall in book 2, predicting the Everstorm... but then immediately after, learning that the future isn't guaranteed, when Jasnah spares him... also, that void-touched spren aren't immediately evil... there's also alot to unpack with Ba-Ado-Mishram, the Unmade that makes these warped spren... and who warped that travel node in Kholinar that sent Kaladin/Adolin/Shallan to Shadesmar... (hide spoiler)]

Adolin (view spoiler)[summoning Mayalaren in 7 seconds against the Thunderclast... (hide spoiler)]

Shallan (view spoiler)[ and her personalities splintering and reforging, if I remember correctly... (hide spoiler)]

Amaram (view spoiler)[joining Odium (hide spoiler)]

The Thrall (view spoiler)[being a result of one of the Unmade, and not just natural Rosharan battle lust... this lead to my theories about whether Kaladin's Darkness was normal depression or another Unmade, for awhile, but nothing has ever shown that to be true... (hide spoiler)]

I think you're really close to The Clap, now... if it hasn't already happened... (hide spoiler)]