Catholic Thought discussion

Summary

The narrative suddenly turns epistolary. First Petronius sends a letter to Vinicius that he and the Roman aristocracy are in the vacation town of Antium. He provides some of the gossip and some of the machinations between rivals. He mentions that the pain of little Augusta’s death is still fresh. Vinicius, in Rome, writes back that despite Chilo’s clandestine excursions into the Christian population, Lygia has not been found. Chilo has brought back information that the Christians have prayer services in meeting houses. He tells Petronius that he too in disguised has wandered to some of the prayer houses.

The narrative returns with Chilo having been away from Vinicius for some time, and Vinicius’ emotions toward Lygia gone from love to anger, but he strengthens his resolve to find her and possess her. Finally after some time Chilo returns to tell him though she has not been found she is certainly among them. Chilo mentions that he has found an old nemesis, an old man named Glaucus who was responsible for Chilo losing two fingers on his hand and that he had left him at an inn dying of stab wounds after Glaucus’ wife and child were abducted. He says that robbers had done this to Glaucus, and now Glaucus had apparently joined the Christians. Vinicius asks him why this should concern him, and Chilo says he must stay away from Glaucus and can no longer search for Lygia. Vinicius is enraged and says he will kill Chilo himself if he doesn’t continue. Chilo reluctantly agrees but requests money to have Glaucus killed. Vinicius advances him a good portion of Chilo’s fee. Chilo reveals that a certain Paul of Tarsus, a Christian lawgiver, is due to come to Rome and hopes that he can locate Lygia in that gathering.

Chilo again goes undercover to the Christian he has befriended, the old man Euricius. Chilo explains his need for protection, and Euricius’ son Quartus puts Chilo in contact with Demos who is supposed to have laborers who can work as bodyguards. Among the laborers is a gigantic man named Urban. Chilo explains to Urban how this man named Glaucus plans to betray the Christians and must be killed. Chilo couches the story into a replay of Judas betraying Christ, and that Glaucus is a second Judas. Urban tells Chilo he will do it despite that he feels guilt still for killing another man accidently. Urban also tells Chilo of a big Christian gathering at Ostrianum, the cemetery outside the city gates. There a great apostle of Christ is supposed to give a talk and all the Christians will be there. There Urban says he will to kill Glaucus.

Petroinus writes another letter to Vinicius. He tells Vinicius to hire Croton to be his guard as he wanders the streets of Rome. He will be needed to defend against Ursus when Lygia is found. He goes on about more political gossip and winds up that at some point he may slice his veins to end his life.

Chilo barges into Vinicius’ home to tell him that he has found Lygia. He has not exactly found her but knows where she will be that evening. She will be at Ostrianum with Ursus who has changed his name to Urban. Chilo cowardly says he will not join Vinicius that evening, but Vinicius compels him with money and with the company of Croton. Vinicius now is in wild delight. He will finally possess Lygia. Chilo explains how Ursus is supposed to kill Glaucus, but wonders if the goodness of Christianity will dissuade Urban. Chilo explains the Christian God is one of morality. They all put on cloaks with hoods and head off to Ostrianum.

At Ostrianum they watched the Christians slowly gather in huge numbers. Vinicius noticed that the Christians relate to their God with love, unlike any religion he had ever seen. He did not love his Greco-Roman gods but feared them. He listened to the Christians sing hymns. Finally an old man named Peter stepped up on a rock and blessed the crowd with the sign of a cross. They heard the old man had been a fisherman once and had been Christ’s chief disciple. Peter began to speak like a father instructing his children, imploring them to be good and pure. Vinicius notices that Christianity is different from any philosophy he knows. Peter even speaks on the merits of suffering and even death like that of Christ. Vinicius is repelled by this teaching. What kind of God is this? He concludes that Christianity is madness. Peter goes on to speak of his witness to Christ, of Christ’s death and how they had found the tomb empty and ultimately come across the Risen Christ. Vinicius became lost in Peter’s narrative and was torn between belief and unbelief. Peter kept saying, “I saw.” As morning began to rise, Chilo pulled Vinicius aside and pointed to Urban and the girl. Vinicius turned and saw Lygia.

Oh my! Was that a spectacular Chapter 20? I was glued.

Your immersion in the story comes through, Manny. Thank you for such excellence. We’re a lucky group, to have you for a moderator.

I agree, Manny. I'm finding it harder to put down, and really easy to keep up so far. Even though I read it when I was in high school, I really didn't remember much, so it's a whole new book this time.

It was!

What is interesting is that Sienkiewicz waited for almost a third of the novel to get to the Christians. Up to now we've barely seen the Christians interact and the anticipation climaxed with St. Peter's sermon. That was highly skilled plotting.

When I knew that St. Peter was about to come onstage I was thrilled!

I agree with Manny on the clever construction of the narrative. Sienkiewicz has gone the extra length to make early Christians seem mysterious to the modern Christian, or at least culturally Christian, people reading the book and having to place themselves in the viewpoint of 1st century Romans.

It seems that Sienkiewicz set himself a goal to present mutual relationship of two worlds pagan—Roman—and Christian. Sienkiewicz was criticized that his portrayal of Christianity pales compared to the pagan world in all its splendor of Roman palaces and life of its citizens, Caesar and his court. We get another description soon of a feast hosted by Tigellinus for Caesar in Chapter XXXI. It seems to me though that this is to be expected. Christians in Rome during Nero had to hide underground. How was Sienkiewicz to portray them in material terms? Christianity as seen by Vinicius in Lygia is perhaps best explained in Chapter XXXIV: “that beauty of a new kind altogether was coming to the world in her, such beauty as had not been in it thus far; beauty which is not merely a statue, but a spirit.” (Sorry for moving ahead but I do not think I am giving away anything of the story.)

I read that part last night :)

He might be showing more of the Roman world, but he also shows how empty it is. Vinicius seems to be more discontent with Rome as the story continues.

Galicius wrote: "It seems that Sienkiewicz set himself a goal to present mutual relationship of two worlds pagan—Roman—and Christian. Sienkiewicz was criticized that his portrayal of Christianity pales compared to the pagan world in all its splendor of Roman palaces and life of its citizens, Caesar and his court."

Yes, it seems he is setting out to contrast two world views, but I would disagree with those that claim the Roman world is presented in splendor. Yes, there are riches and power dramatized but I think it presents the Roman world as a bunch of overindulgent egotists who only care about themselves. The old Roman virtues of nobility and piety are long gone and what is left in this post Republican world is self-centeredness and hedonism. I don't find this a positive portrayal of the Roman world. It also feels very true.

My above remarks were misunderstood—as if Sienkiewicz was representing Roman culture positively and purposely belittling the faithful Christians. We will see that this plebeian Christian culture that is depicted as little and pale compared to the aristocratic and powerful official patricians will be victorious in the end. Remember that God and Ursus is with them.

Manny, you give the most wonderful summaries. Thank you.

The roller-coaster of emotions Vinicius goes through in chapter 16 seems excessive to our sensibilities. Here is a young Pagan man who has yet to encounter the meaning of "love your neighbor as yourself". Ligyia is more object to him rather than a person.

I must say I found the part where Vinicius and Chilo are plotting Glaucus' murder rather tedious.

I’d like to recommend Tom Holland’s excellent study of ancient cultures here. The title is Dominion (with a superb reproduction of Dali’s ‘’Christ of St. John of the Cross” on its cover). In it Tom Holland writes of his awakening to the cruelty of the ancient world: “The more you study the world of the ancient Romans the more alien they seem to be. Theirs was a culture built on systematic exploitation, an economy founded on slave labor,” and — to Kerstin’s point — “the absolute right of free Roman males to have sex with anyone they wanted and in any way they wanted . . . ‘’

Kerstin wrote: "I must say I found the part where Vinicius and Chilo are plotting Glaucus' murder rather tedious."

I thought so too at first but that's where I saw Sienkiewicz building the psychologies of the pagan world (with its variety) and the Christian world. I am marveling at how the author is capturing the psychology of the pagan world.

Frances wrote: "I’d like to recommend Tom Holland’s excellent study of ancient cultures here. The title is Dominion (with a superb reproduction of Dali’s ‘’Christ of St. John of the Cross” on its cover). In it Tom..."

I have thought of this book too while reading Quo Vadis. The central thesis of Holland's historical book is that there was a stark and lasting change in the world views/psychologies of the pagan world and the Christian world. I have not read this book but I have read reviews and heard Holland interviewed.

This is Holland's book Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World. I bet you can find interviews of Holland on YouTube.

Thank you, Manny. One of the best interviews I’ve found on YouTube is “Unbelievable? Tom Holland and Tom Wright: How St. Paul changed the world.” A conversation you’ll want to listen to again and again.

I am liking the rich detail in the novel. Sienkiewicz does bring his characters to life while giving us the context that envelops their lives. The pagans are definitely more sensually oriented than the Christians, and I like how Vinicius gradually begins to understand what is missing in the pagan world. Will he give himself over to Christ and will he be able to love Lygia with a holy Christian love? Suspense building here.

I know! He makes me nervous.