Tournament of Books discussion

Space to discuss the 2024 TOB contender Cold People by Tom Rob Smith.

Oh, I wish this book hadn't made it this far, and I wish Let Us Descend could replace it. Although I appreciate the inclusion of straight up genre fiction in the list, this title strained credulity after the alien invasion, and it has that undercooked feeling that suggest it's the beginning of a larger series.

It's among the books that felt like a "nah" for me this year. If the commentariat convinces me otherwise, I'll read it, but for now I am skipping it.

I just started this one!! The audiobook was available from my library, so I am giving it a go. I happen to be very cold right now because my furnace is not working well, and I'm a little worried this will only make me feel colder, but I hope not. Right now the characters are on a summer tour of Portugal so I am okay.

I just finished this. I had never heard of it before it showed up on the ToB list, and I'm glad I read it, so I count this as a win! But it turned out to be more simplistic than I anticipated. Basically, it's a retelling of The Island of Doctor Moreau, and the island is Antarctica. I ended up googling a lot to look at photos of Antarctica and the various research facilities - I did not realize Antarctica is so crowded!!

What a weird book. It didn't hold together for me - the one thing I need from Sci-fi is a consistent internal world and this didn't hold up. Too much didn't make any sense. I understand there needs to be a suspension of disbelief, but this pushed into eye-rolling territory for me.

Agree… and the characterizations of the young people (Echo and her friend) were really thin. I liked the idea of an alien invasion book that isn’t about the aliens at all, but don’t think it was carried off well.

I just finished and also didn't love it. Like Trish, too much just didn't make sense. I don't need science fiction to be scientifically feasible or even plausible, but I do need it to be a little more figured out. It felt like things just "happened" rather than the story unfolding. Some things had a ton of detail and other things that felt more important had none.

Count me among the dissenters. I really liked this one.

Phyllis wrote: "Count me among the dissenters. I really liked this one."
I'd love to hear more

Phyllis wrote: "Count me among the dissenters. I really liked this one."

Please tell me what you liked because I'm a third of the way through and I feel the way about this book I used to feel about watching America's Next Top Model -- it was bad, I felt bad watching it, but something terrible was just about to happen.

In this case, my last teaspoon of goodwill was lost when the author explained that Hope City was so perfect and crime free because there were no laws (despite having spent quite a lot of time explaining its draconian regulations) because there was "only a libertarian culture of responsibility." This a few pages after explaining that our protagonists are the only ones not living in crowded squalor because "Liza and Atto had been given the honor of living in this house as a celebration of their love story..."

So far, this feels like badly written YA romantasy fan fiction.

I have really liked this author's other books! This one, however, I am finding it hard to find much sympathy for.

Don't get me wrong guys, this novel does have some problems, but they were things I just chose to gloss over and continue reading. (Alison, that segment you point out about Liza & Atto's accommodations in Hope City hit me exactly the way it hit you.) The things I chose not to worry about included whether the science made any sense, the lack of any explanation about the aliens, the sudden whole thing in the middle of the book about humanity's cultural wonders having been relocated to Antarctica, etc.

The thing I liked most about the book, I think, was thinking about the various ways that humans might try to construct civilization if they were suddenly basically starting from scratch with no rules and extremely limited resources in a wholly unforgiving environment. To me it was a story about hubris.

Phyllis wrote: "The thing I liked most about the book, I think, was thinking about the various ways that humans might try to construct civilization if they were suddenly basically starting from scratch with no rules and extremely limited resources..."

Yes, to that. And even the sudden jump in time, hand-waving away those difficult starting years, which Station Eleven did too. I think that there is so much dystopian fiction being published now, that there has to be more to it than "the world had a big crisis, bad guys are in charge (I'm not in McMurdo City yet, but I assume that's the next part) and these plucky kids will save things." Will the author throw a curve ball and avoid this scenario? I'll bet cash money the answer is no.

I was doing my best to be a kind reader, but the strictly regulated libertarian paradise thing broke me.

I'm only about a third of the way through, but it feels like the author has some strange political agendas. I haven't really been able to put my finger on it yet, but the way Hope City is written as working because everyone loves everyone and it's a libertarian paradise feels so implausible. He also keeps harping on how diabetes and obesity is a thing of the past and everyone is so physically fit and strong. It felt sort of icky to romanticize survival of the fittest in that way.

Cat wrote: "I'm only about a third of the way through, but it feels like the author has some strange political agendas. I haven't really been able to put my finger on it yet, but the way Hope City is written a..."

Don't forget how drinking is bad and you'll be denied healthcare if you do but, hey, this lichen will get you stoned.

It really does feel like a very specific political viewpoint being pushed. And I keep wondering where they got the brightly colored paint to make Hope City so bohemian.

Cat wrote: "I'm only about a third of the way through, but it feels like the author has some strange political agendas. I haven't really been able to put my finger on it yet, but the way Hope City is written a..."

That is completely icky, how did that get through the editing process without someone flagging it as offensive? It also stereotypes diabetics, since many aren’t overweight. (I’m a type 1, diagnosed at 2 years old, I weigh 95 pounds, and there are many slim type 2s as well.)

After reading so many negative comments from so many people, I was surprised to like this more than I thought I would. No, it’s not great, and it has a lot of flaws. I don’t generally like sci-fi like this anyway, so I really thought I would hate it. I was pleasantly surprised. I really got into the descriptions of daily life lived in Antarctica. I loved to read about the chef who found ways to make delicious meals with very limited ingredients. I loved to read about the museums and archives that the survivors built. I loved to read about the family, struggling to have a child and how they adapted and had a very unusual child. There was a lot of description and world-building here that I enjoyed.

The last 20% of the book was not my favorite. It became the type of sci-fi book I generally don’t like. Nevertheless, this one pleasantly surprised me.

I made it to 85% and am calling it read. I was dreading having to spend time with it and was angry every time I read any of it. I really liked Child 44 and The Secret Speech, both of which felt well researched and as though the author cared -- about his craft, about the characters, about writing something that made sense. Cold People managed to take a truly inventive idea and then abandon that inventive idea in favor of the most predictable path possible. And the writing was so lazy and clichéd. At least Dayswork should have an easy time knocking this one out.

This felt like Antartica Merman, and read more like a screenplay than a novel. Mostly I think there were just missed opportunities- like what happened to the alien marbles Tetu found? I can see the ideas, and hard agree there will definitely be a sequel, but I don’t know that I’ll read it.

All of these comments are too nice. If you generally don't like sci-fi, and find this a meh and fine and didn't hate it, its because it is horrible sci-fi. If you generally don't like stories that have random bits of absurdity thrown at the reader, and you found this meh and ok, its because this book didn't throw random bits of absurd things at the reader with well planned intentions or well executed craft. If you generally don't like books that have action and cool battle scenes, and found this book meh and ok, its because the action scenes were boring (the genetic engineering created a body part just for this exact scenario! convenient!). If you don't like books where ethics and how far humans would go in extreme circumstances, and you found this book meh and ok, its because it wasn't able to articulate a cohesive ethical framework within which human nature could play out nor did it explore bigger ethical ideas. If you don't like books where characters fall in love and navigate the depth of that human emotion, and thought this book meh and ok, its because this book didn't even try. They are instantly soul mates or are so astonishingly dumb about emotion as to foible any real insight into human experience outside the book. If you don't like exploring political and social theory through fiction, and found this book meh and ok, its because this book didn't even. The new world in which the characters exist just, you know, is amazing because everything just worked out and the culture, in 20 years, is, you know, just hunky dory, because, libertarianism / dedication to science and not having any other thing / fine dining wouldn't need to change, just the ingredients change. And the genetically altered silverbacks have developed complex funeral habits, because they have ESP.
If you do like any of these types of books, please stop being nice about this one.

Mathew wrote: "All of these comments are too nice. If you generally don't like sci-fi, and find this a meh and fine and didn't hate it, its because it is horrible sci-fi. If you generally don't like stories that ..."

Ouch! Tell us how you really feel, Matthew! 😂 Glad I didn’t even try to pick this one up.

Mathew wrote: "All of these comments are too nice. If you generally don't like sci-fi, and find this a meh and fine and didn't hate it, it's because it is horrible sci-fi. If you generally don't like stories that ..."

Yes to all of that. You're still soft-pedaling how bad this book is though.

One thing I love about this Goodreads group is that it is a safe place to express opinions about books. We are all book lovers, and while we have divergent views about books, and which ones we like, at the end of the day we have always been respectful of everyone’s opinions.

This conversation has started to cross over that line for me. This now feels like a conversation that is making negative comments about people who might actually see some merit in this book (I include myself in this group) rather than about the book itself. I hope we can steer this in a better direction.

Gwendolyn wrote: "One thing I love about this Goodreads group is that it is a safe place to express opinions about books. We are all book lovers, and while we have divergent views about books, and which ones we like..."

I always value your insights, Gwendolyn. Though I don't know that I will invest the time in this particular novel, I do share your hope that the ToB commentariat always feels like a welcoming place for all of us.

"Here is what didn't work for me" is the kind of commentary I've personally found valuable, even when it is about a book I loved.

"No one could possibly like this book/anyone who thinks this is good is out of their mind" is not.

That is where I would personally place the line, and I think we are, as a group, typically on the correct side of it.

Sometimes, when we have very high hopes for a book and those hopes are dashed, and/or when we loved longlist entries that failed to make the cut in favor of shortlisted books that seem to us far less worthy, and we describe why we felt such disappointment, it can sound like we are attacking the people who liked the book that bummed us out. I can certainly recall occasions on which I should have been more diplomatic here but was not. Because my hopes were dashed and, in that disappointment, I lost more than a bit of politesse.

Thank you for the reminder to take respectful account of diverse perspectives. With only one ToB shortlist bracket entry yet to read ("Monstrilio"), I ruefully find that I loved only a minority of them, so I will need to be on the more circumspect side come the start of this Tournament and be open to having my mind changed -- or at least my perspective expanded -- by many of you.

Yes to everything Gwendolyn said. I too finished Cold People today and I find I can’t muster up any strong emotions on the book. So that says it all! I liked the first half better than the second half. I had high hopes. It was an interesting idea to send everyone on earth to Antarctica at the demand of an alien race. But then what? What happened to the aliens? And do I find the humans and what they did believable?

Risa wrote: "Gwendolyn wrote: "One thing I love about this Goodreads group is that it is a safe place to express opinions about books. We are all book lovers, and while we have divergent views about books, and ..."

Risa, I am right there with you this year. I only enjoyed a small handful of this year’s shortlisted books. One of my favorites, though, was Monstrilio, so that’s not a bad one for you to save until last. Hope you like it!

Gwendolyn wrote: "One thing I love about this Goodreads group is that it is a safe place to express opinions about books. We are all book lovers, and while we have divergent views about books, and which ones we like..."





Yes to all of this, and thank you for saying it. I feel the same way, but as a relative newcomer to this group, I figured I'd stay silent.

Nadine in NY wrote: "Gwendolyn wrote: "One thing I love about this Goodreads group is that it is a safe place to express opinions about books. We are all book lovers, and while we have divergent views about books, and ..."

Please always feel free to speak up! A saying that I use in class often is, "It's hard to see the picture when you're inside the frame." A fresh pair of eyes from recently outside the frame can be very helpful.

Well Mathew said everything for me.

Well, can't say I was a huge fan of this one. If it had focused on one thing - the alien invasion, the exodus to Antarctica, the struggle to survive - it could have been solid, but once we got to "within a few years we were able to make ULTRA SUPER COOL MEGA-ICE HUMANS" it had lost me. (Even with the background of the Chinese scientist saying 'actually we'd been working on this kind of stuff for decades so that we could win Olympics', it seemed too much.)

And yes - some of the "it works because it's libertarian," "everyone is happy because they just have to focus on survival", "no one wears make-up and they're more beautiful for it" kind of stuff is... weird! And off-putting!

Just realized I never commented in this discussion... I really don't understand why this book gets so much dislike. It is easily my favorite one so far in the shortlist!

I feel like people simply have a difficult time relating to the mechanics of the world that the story built. Personally, I think it is perfectly logical that a mature society of the strongest and brightest on the brutal landscape of Antarctica would choose to focus on survival and have a largely libertarian society, especially with so many of the initial problem survivors perishing in the first winter.

The explanation of genetics also seemed reasonable enough to me. The Cold People project certainly was an odd thing to focus on in the story, but I had no issue accepting that transition in the narrative because it introduced a new struggle that steered the story towards an objective.

For me, the world-building and research that went into it was what really made this book stand out to me. It's certainly not a literary masterpiece, but I personally would place it very high in the ranks of sci-fi fiction and incomparably better than some of the other books in the shortlist.