Science and Inquiry discussion

One of the books we will be reading for March 2024 is The Underworld: Journeys to the Depths of the Ocean by Susan Casey.

Please use this thread to post questions, comments, and reviews, at any time.

Is anyone reading this book?

I read this book a while ago. Here is my 3-star review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

My biggest issue with the book is the author. I would've appreciated a scientist who's made a career in deep sea exploration, rather than a journalist/deep sea tourist, writing the book, as it would have added much more authenticity and technical expertise. Deep sea exploration seems to have become a privilege that's afforded to the ultra-rich and certain tenacious journalists, at the cost of actual scientists.

Betsy wrote: "Is anyone reading this book?"

I plan on reading this one for March, I'm still waiting on my copy from the library (apparently it's popular in my area!).

I've just begun reading it.

I have started reading. Casey getting ready to explore the abysmal brought to mind the book Soundings: The Story of the Remarkable Woman Who Mapped the Ocean Floor about Marie Tharp who charted the sea bottoms from sonar readings. She was not even allowed on surface ships taking the soundings until 1968 fifteen years after her career began because she was a woman.

Kathleen (itpdx) wrote: "I have started reading. Casey getting ready to explore the abysmal brought to mind the book Soundings: The Story of the Remarkable Woman Who Mapped the Ocean Floor about Marie Tharp..."

Kathleen, does the book mention the reason why she was not allowed on the sounding ships? I have been on a number of research ships. Space on board these ships is at a premium. There is usually more demand for "bunk space" than is available. Bunk rooms are often communal, and sometimes there is even "hot-bunking" where half of the researchers sleep in the nighttime, and the other half sleep in the same bunks in the daytime. Some of the smaller ships simply do not have separate facilities for men and women. I remember on one of my voyages, there was a single female researcher on board. She was assigned a sleeping space in the first-aid compartment. Luckily, nobody got hurt during the voyage!

David wrote: "Kathleen (itpdx) wrote: "I have started reading. Casey getting ready to explore the abysmal brought to mind the book [book:Soundings: The Story of the Remarkable Woman Who Mapped the Ocean Floor|12..."

Yes, the book said that women weren’t allowed. It didn’t say why. In 1968 she did get to go.

David wrote: "Kathleen (itpdx) wrote: "I have started reading. Casey getting ready to explore the abysmal brought to mind the book Soundings: The Story of the Remarkable Woman Who Mapped the Ocean Floor?
Have you read The Underworld?
How does it compare with your trips on research vessels?

CatReader wrote: My biggest issue with the book is the author. I would've appreciated a scientist who's made..."

I'm about a third of the way through so far, and I'd have to agree with this opinion. I'm still enjoying the book overall and finding it engaging and interesting, but it definitely does read as "journalist who managed to monetize her love of deep sea excursions" (especially after looking at the other books she's published).

I do think she does a good job of making the topic approachable for the average person, which I think was the goal of the book. It's successful in letting people dip their toes into the water of oceanography, and serving as a launching point to more in depth, scientific books for those who want to dive deeper (both puns semi-intended, hah).

Kathleen (itpdx) wrote: "David wrote: "Kathleen (itpdx) wrote: "I have started reading. Casey getting ready to explore the abysmal brought to mind the book ...

No, I haven't read her book. I read an earlier book of hers (The Wave: In Pursuit of the Rogues, Freaks, and Giants of the Ocean). I had given it 3 stars, because even though it was entertaining, it seemed like a hodge-podge of different topics.

I have finished. I agree that this is an adventure book more than a scientific treatise. But I am grateful for that. It does hop around both in time and place but the information is presented in an engaging way and easy to understand way. I agree with Susan Casey's plea to protect and explore the deep.
As a resident of western Oregon, I really liked the parts of the chapter "Poseidon's Lair" on the Regional Cabled Array being used to study the Juan de Fuca tectonic plate. I see information on findings but I had not known the extent of the study and how challenging it is to maintain.
And the chapter "Selling the Abyss"! I had never heard of the International Seabed Authority nor the fact that attempts to mine the deep are ongoing.
Yes, if you are deeply knowledgeable on the topics discussed this would seem a little fluffy but as a book that can engage the curious general public, I think it hits the spot.

Now that I’ve finished it, I stand by it being an account of Casey’s deep sea adventures with some history, science and commentary sprinkled in, but still found it enjoyable overall.

I went into this with fairly minimal knowledge about the deep ocean, so I found the topics covered fascinating, if a little scattered in how/when/how deeply they were covered.

The sections I found most interesting were the history and evolution of humanity’s understanding of the deep, as well as the section on deep sea mining (interesting to learn about, horrifying to consider).

I did find it interesting that the author/publisher chose not to wait to publish until at least a brief comment could be included about how the ISA deadline imposed by Nauru came and went with no mining rules established.

I realize publishing a book is a lengthy process, but optically, this book was published after the deadline passed, but still talks about it as a future date. Obviously something like the Titan submersible implosion wasn’t something that could be predicted and accounted for before publication (immediately making her comment “no one has died in a manned submersible since 1974” obsolete) but the July 9, 2023 deadline was set in stone, and so very close to the publication date, that it seemed worth waiting for. I realize with science we discover new things every day though, so I suppose the line has to be drawn somewhere of what they’re willing to let go and possibly have obsolete by the time of publication.

Were there any sections you all found most interesting, enjoying reading about the most—or disliked the most?

CatReader wrote: "I read this book a while ago. Here is my 3-star review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

My biggest issue with the book is the author. I would've appreciated a scientist who's made..."

I'm still chugging along, but I do feel the pull of this criticism.

There were parts of a chapter or two so far, I think it was the paired chapters 4 and 5 (whichever were the Hades chapter titles), where it almost felt like she was justifying herself being there rather than commenting on the engineering science / trench geography. The parts I'm thinking of were the ones where she was discussing / brushing away criticisms of rich folk being the primary divers since they have money to blow, and how some academics went to Twitter (I suppose now it's X) to complain about how many grants that money could fund for real scientists.

I don't know, it seemed to stick out in a weird sense, almost like there was an implicit argument being made. Maybe I'm reading into it too much.

Jordan wrote: "CatReader wrote: "I read this book a while ago. Here is my 3-star review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

My biggest issue with the book is the author. I would've appreciated a sc..."

Those are great points. I felt it most near the end, when she managed to finagle a seat on a particular, time-sensitive expedition that was almost scrubbed due to weather issues, and she went on this rant about how she had worked so hard to get there and would be so disappointed if it didn't happen -- that part was a big turn-off for me.

Right, I've now finished, and my full review can be found here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Outside of my comment earlier today, I think this is likely a nice introduction to ocean sciences for laypeople. I grew up on the Atlantic, and even took Oceanography in high school (we were very lucky and had a few weird classes, despite not being one of the rich kid schools in my area), so this was a nice return to the sea for me.

I think what I really appreciated about the book is that, behind the adventure-style narrative, each chapter more or less served to introduce a different ocean-based science for readers.

And to answer Debbie's question above, what I liked the most was any time marine archaeologist Roger Dooley appeared. From shouting "I don't care about the gold! I can tell you hundreds of things that are more important on the ship than gold coins", to his quips about the French black market for enema syringes, to dismay over the new Columbian president, it was easy to tell how invested he was in the research and history that lies on the bottom of the ocean.

Nice review, Jordan!

Incidentally, I had both Underworld and fellow journalist Laura Tretheway's The Deepest Map: The High-Stakes Race to Chart the World's Oceans on hold from my libraries at the same time -- both books were published within a month of each other last summer. I managed to check out Underworld first, so when The Deepest Map became available, I started listening to it but it seemed so similar to Underworld (and I had been oversaturated with that topic) that I unfortunately had to DNF it. Perhaps The Deepest Map covers certain topics in a more comprehensive or nuanced way for those interested in further reading on the topic.