You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

One of the group reads for February is Rules of Civility by Amor Towles. Please discuss the book in this thread.

Krisite will be leading the discussion.

In order to receive a badge you must:
1. Have read the book before or during February 2024.
2. Discussed it in this thread. Discussion must be more than "I read the book and I liked it". Discussion requires something more substantial and analytical of what you read, for example, thoughts, opinions, impact it had on you, what was your favorite part, was it what you expected it to be like etc. You may also like to review the book and post a link to the review in this thread. Please refer to our group spoiler policy for further information.
3. Report that you have read AND discussed the book in the reporting thread (include a brief summary of what you thought of the book).

A note on discussion: Discussion must be more than "I read the book and I liked it". Discussion requires something more substantial and analytical of what you read, for example, thoughts, opinions, impact it had on you, what was your favorite part, was it what you expected it to be like etc.

In addition to this, the group reads are meant to be a "read along" so it is preferable that you discuss the book as you read rather than wait until you've finished the book.

And finally, discussion is not about just listing your thoughts. Please interact with the other group members, comment on their thoughts, and if they comment on yours, respond to them. This is what makes a good book discussion!

You may also like to review the book and post a link to the review in this thread.

Please refer to our group spoiler policy for further information.

General Rules:
1. Please mark your spoilers with the spoiler tags along with mentioning what stage of the book you are at so other's don't get a nasty shock. Chapter numbers/titles are generally best as they are the same across all formats and editions. See our spoiler policy
2. The book may be combined with the Year Long Challenge, Topplers, and Monthly Challenges.

Happy reading!

Looking forward to starting this in a couple days. :)

If anyone uses Chirp for audiobooks they have this one on sale for $5.99 until 2/7

I've been reading a book that has taken longer than I intended, so I am going to start this one today. Anyone else already reading or about to begin?

I am using this book for the yearly challenge so I have at least 3 books to finish before I get there

I’ve started. Enjoying it so far.

I started the story briefly, yesterday. Tonight, I read to Chapter Five. I thought the introduction to the story was interesting. I liked the atmosphere at the art gallery opening and the hints about a story to come, with contrasting portraits of the young man, Tinker Gray. I like Kate Kontent. (view spoiler)[ I wasn’t prepared for the ending scene at the close of chapter four! (hide spoiler)]

I've read through chapter 19, and I'm enjoying it immensely. It feels a little Gastby-ish, if that makes sense? Which is a problem because I keep mixing up time periods. The picture in my head of the characters is all wrong and I know it, but I can't seem to fix it, lol.

I do wish the author had put the little tidbit about the pronunciation of her last name earlier in; I'd had it wrong the whole time.

I got the audio book and have a few books before this but I am looking forward to starting this one.

I made it up to chapter 5 today. (view spoiler)[ I'm not a huge fan of Eve's, but I feel bad about the accident. I think this is going to be terrible for them all. Tinker already feels guilty about it because he was driving. (hide spoiler)]

I'm not sure how many of us have the physical book, but it's written in that strange manner where there are no quotation marks for dialogue. The spoken words are just preceded by a hyphen. It's a little strange to get used to, but not too bad because the hyphen still distinguishes it. In the audio, it is clear that they're speaking just because the narrator makes it obvious. You wouldn't know that the book is structured differently unless you see it.

The story up to this point has all been told from Kate's perspective, except the last couple of pages. It was told from that omnipresent perspective (and the whole bit was italicized to emphasize this). I wonder if we'll have little sections like that through out the story.

I just finished the story, and I'm having trouble deciding how I feel about it. The best I have is that it was Gatsby meets Rent. There were definitely twists and turns I didn't expect, and I wasn't really sure where the ending was going. But then again, I don't know that I'd consider that a particular strength in this case. My overall impression was just - meh. It wasn't bad, but it isn't going to rattle around in my brain for days, either.

I just finished a book that i am using for the yearly challenge. I tried to jump right in but i realized i need a bit of a break before jumping right in. I will start the audiobook today or tomorrow. I am looking forward to commenting in this discussion.

I'm in chapter 12 (45%, page 152 in my paperback) (view spoiler)[ I was so surprised when Kate quit her job and tricked her way into the new one! It seems like a very good move though. She was so unhappy and the promotion wasn't what she really wanted. I feel like she was a bit stagnant and may start to blossom here.

I wonder if we'll see Tinker's godmother again. She could possibly play a role in helping Kate make her way in the business world. I find her to be an interesting character (though her name escapes me in the moment).

I feel for Tinker. I get the impression that he is terribly unhappy, but trying to do the right thing. I think he was quite interested in Kate before the accident, but has chosen to "make a go" of it with Eve. They don't seem well suited to each other at all.

Some of the book has gone exactly as I expected, some not quite so much. Sometimes it meanders a bit too much for my taste, but overall I'm really enjoying the story. (hide spoiler)]

I am just starting Chapter Eight tonight.
I agree with Olliethat it seems a little Gatsbyish in style, maybe even more like Breakfast at Tiffany’s with all of the New York City vibes. I am not sure who Rent is, but I will look it up. 🙂

Kristie - I noticed the lack of punctuation too but I have enough other books under my belt that it doesn’t bother me much. It just feels very ethereal.

The characters are very interesting. I like Katy but not Eve so much. Tinker is still an unknown.
I am on the app and can’t read spoilers.

I agree, Cherie. The way it is written (lack of punctuation) isn't bothering me either. There is enough indication when someone is talking to make it work. It's just different.

I find the switch of narrators when Katey isn't around works well too. The story can't be told from her perspective if she isn't there and we need those scenes. I hardly notice it in the moment, except that they are written all in italics.

Hmm, Rent is a musical? Not sure I got that correct but there is a photographer?

I really enjoy Towles’ style of writing. He throws so much into the story. References like Brahmin bank and the Easter uprising. I love looking things up as I read! I think the character names are a crack up.
(view spoiler)[ We finally get to meet Tinker’s brother. He is a painter and goes by Hank. He must be a family black sheep, to go by Kate’s surmise of “a lifetime without manners”. I knew who Stuart Davis was but had to look up some of his paintings to recall his “style”. (hide spoiler)].

“...the sun was just beginning to heft it’s way over the horizon as if it needed to defy gravity to do so.” I love it!

I think the RENT comparison could be due to them being roommates, living in New York... I don't really remember the RENT storyline, but I think it involved music, city life, trying to make a living, overcoming hardships. That sort of thing. I'm guessing it was more a general feel and some overarching themes more than picking out something specific. Ollie, maybe you could clarify or elaborate on what made you think of RENT?

Cherie, I find Towles to be a very intelligent writer. I feel there is always something you can look up while reading his books.

(view spoiler)[Tinker’s brother was really something, wasn't he? (hide spoiler)]

is there a wedding in this book by chance? My wedding book for the challenge was the one I was supposed to read before this one but the book I chose ended up not having the wedding take place so now I am on a new hunt

I was wondering that myself when I saw your question in the other thread, Katrisa. (view spoiler)[ It's possible, but I'm at 45% and it hasn't happened yet. If no one else replies sooner, I'll be sure to let you know if it happens. (hide spoiler)]

Kristie wrote: "I think the RENT comparison could be due to them being roommates, living in New York... I don't really remember the RENT storyline, but I think it involved music, city life, trying to make a living..."

I think there's a lot of overlap both in themes and in pacing. Rent focuses on a year in the life of a connected group of people in NYC, trying to make their ways in the world through various inter-personal issues and external hardships. There's roommates, lovers, frenemies, and a lot of weight given to the impact that other people have on our lives.

But for me, the pacing of Rent has always struggled (I know, I know - criticizing rent is musical theater sacrilege, lol). It gets so wrapped up in the million little moments that make up the characters' lives that sometimes it drags. In both the play and this book it's a really busy year. But I'm not sure we needed every detail of that business.

Just to see if anyone else's brain makes weird connections, here's the one that made me go "wait - is this Rent?" (spoiler for something in the last 1/4 of the book) (view spoiler)[Wallace's death had a lot of parallels to Angel's death to me, in that we have this specter of a thing that might kill them (the war vs aids) hanging over us for a while, and then we see the fallout amongst the friend group when the worst comes to pass. (hide spoiler)]

Anyway, that's just my two cents.

As to there being a wedding - (view spoiler)[there's not one (hide spoiler)]

Oh! One thing I really, really want to give props to the author on: he writes women very well. There was nothing about Katey or Eve or any of the other women in the story that felt contrived or unbelievable. Given how many male authors struggle on that point, I think he deserves credit for realizing that women are people too, lol.

Yes, Ollie! I think he has great insight into women. He writes them as whole people with different personalities and interests. I love the subtleties he adds. His characters tend to be complex without feeling contrived. Very realistic.

On a side note - re: Rent sacrilege - I saw the theater performance many years ago and was less impressed than everyone I went with. I also thought it dragged at times and as I stated earlier I have even forgotten the plot line now.

I am just starting chapter 3 of the book and came across a quote that resonated with me. “Be careful what you choose to be proud of, because the world has every intention of using it against you.” I am curious to see if it just stuck out to me or if it is something repeated throughout the story.

I love that quote as well, Ammee. I feel it is relatable to many people.

I am just starting chapter 15 in the audiobook. I felt like it got slow around chapter 5 and didn't pick up for me again until around chapter 12. In fairness to the book though it may have just been that I am a bit more tired than usual today.

(view spoiler)[I went back and forth on liking Eve. The jealousy she got at the beginning because they happened to run into each other was a bit much for me. I still am not sure how i feel about her as we get more into the book.

I thought it was interesting when Kate met Tinker's brother as well. I was hoping she would like him. Than when we met him I was kind of annoyed with him. I thought he may pop up more but glad he hasn't so far.

It started to speed up when she got the new job before it felt sad and slow like she was pinning for Tinker and Eve's life and I think it was good they went on their trips so she had the freedom to live more.

I love Kate though and I keep waiting for her to find a love interest worthy of her. At the beginning i thought it was going to be tinker. Than Tinker's brother before he was rude. I am just at the part where her and Wally tried to kiss. I was thinking it might be nice but honestly am kind of glad they may just stay friends. I feel like she is really good at reading people. (hide spoiler)]

I'm at exactly the same place as you, Ammee. I'm enjoying (view spoiler)[ the friendship Kate and Wally are developing. The attempted kiss scene was cute. I think it made them realize there was no real fire there. I'm interested in seeing how their relationship develops. (hide spoiler)]

I agree that the book can be slow moving at times. Probably not a good one to read when you're tired.

I am finishing chapter 19 and it has kept a good pace and has been pretty interesting. Hopefully it continues. I do think I am going to be done listening for the evening.

(view spoiler)[I was shocked to find out the true connection between Anne and Tinker. I was not expecting that at all. I was hoping that Kate and Tinker even thought it felt a bit soon after Eve.

While I still think that Hank was a huge jerk to Kate. I have a bit more understanding of where he is coming from with his feelings towards his brother. (hide spoiler)]

I'm in chapter 19 (page 241, 72%) (view spoiler)[ I was stunned at the scene between Tinker and his "godmother." I definitely did not see that coming.

I was also surprised that Eve didn't accept his proposal. It seemed like that's what she was aiming for since she met him. The explanation that she didn't want to controlled by anyone does fit her personality though. As does her running off to California, I think.

It's unusual that this type of book surprises me like that and it was definitely welcome. I look forward to seeing what happens next as I really don't know what to expect. (hide spoiler)]

Ammee wrote: "I am finishing chapter 19 and it has kept a good pace and has been pretty interesting. Hopefully it continues. I do think I am going to be done listening for the evening.

I was shocked to find ..."

Just read that bit, Ammee, and had to come on here to comment immediately. I didn't even finish the chapter!

I finished the story today and overall I am going back and forth with if I really like it or just think it is okay. I will say it is different than what I usually read so maybe it is just getting used to the style.

(view spoiler)[ I throughout the whole book enjoyed that Katie was always strong and independent.

I also love how Wally was a huge influence on her life going forward. When we first meet him it seems like he was just there. Than they had an amazing loving friendship.

I also thought it was cute that, unbeknown to them at the time, Wally led to her first interaction with her future husband. I had a tiny feeling maybe something would happen in the car when they met but than no conversation happened so I thought I was completely wrong. (hide spoiler)]

Kristie wrote: "Ammee wrote: "I am finishing chapter 19 and it has kept a good pace and has been pretty interesting. Hopefully it continues. I do think I am going to be done listening for the evening.

I was shoc..."

Right it I had to rewind and listen to it again because I was so shocked. I thought I had just misunderstood at first.

Finished chapter 19 and now we know why Hank (view spoiler)[ was so rude. The coversation was misunderstood and he clearly takes issue with his brother's "relationship." (hide spoiler)]

Ammee wrote: "Kristie wrote: "Ammee wrote: "I am finishing chapter 19 and it has kept a good pace and has been pretty interesting. Hopefully it continues. I do think I am going to be done listening for the eveni..."

I'm kind of horrified...

I just finished the end of Chapter Eleven.
(view spoiler)[I was so surprised that Katy quit working at the law firm. I did not see that coming but I really have no expectations about the story. I am just along for the ride and have no idea where it is going. I liked the scene at the hotel where Katy followed Tinker’s Great Aunt Ann. I like the old woman. (hide spoiler)]

Cherie - I'm really interested to see your thoughts after chapter 19. There have been a couple of other things that surprised me since that point.

I started today but didn't get very far. I am really just meeting the characters. I am not sure what chapter I am on because my audio tracks don't match the chapters, but I am at just over 10%

I am at 27% now. (view spoiler)[I still feel like it's a bit slow getting going - well except for the accident - that was dramatic. Eve just came back from Palm Beach. I guess I'll see where we go from there tomorrow! (hide spoiler)]

Kristie wrote: "I'm in chapter 12 (45%, page 152 in my paperback) .."
That is about where I am right now. (view spoiler)[I like Kate quite a bit. I like her plucky-ness. I agree with your assessment about Tinker and Eve. (hide spoiler)]
The first Towles book I read was A Gentleman in Moscow which I absolutely adored. So while I am enjoying the writing in this book, it is not standing out for me like Gentleman did. Though there was one passage today that I thought was really great - it was where they were talking about chameleons and butterflies and something to the effect that few people can be chameleons and change completely to mirror their environment but that many of us are butterflies and have two sides that help us camouflage. I am not doing it any justice really and I was listening while on my commute so I couldn't bookmark it when it came on (one definite disadvantage to listening to books rather than eyeballing them.)

I remember that quote too, Katrisa, though I'd be hard pressed to actually quote it.

A Gentleman in Moscow was the first book I read by Towles as well. I also read The Lincoln Highway and loved it. Rules of Civility was actually his first novel, so I'm not surprised that it isn't quite living up to A Gentleman. I still thought it was very good.

I just read that this book was supposed to be made into a TV miniseries I think. I'm not sure if that ever happened or if is still in the works, but someone bought the rights for it to make a movie and then it was decided to do something with TV instead. I'd be interested to see what they could do with it.

I could definitely see it as a tv show. The characters have big enough personalities and the meat of the story is spaced out enough that an episodic format seems like a natural fit.

I would watch this as a show. I also loved The Lincoln Highway

I have the day off work so I got to finish today. I really enjoyed the second half of the book. The start was a bit slow but I ended up giving the book 4 stars. (view spoiler)[Like you guys - I was shocked at the truth of Anne and Tinker's relationship! I did NOT see that coming! Finding out about Tinker really made me think about Gatsby even more too! I really like Kate as a character. Towles really does a great job writing characters. I love his little bits of philosophy that he sprinkles in too. I loved the lines where he says "Most people have more needs than wants, that's why they live the lives they do. But the world is run by those whose wants outstrip their needs." Since I wasn't driving I got to bookmark it :) (hide spoiler)]

Sorry, Kristie - I am currently only in Chapter Fifteen. It has just been such a slow story that I have been working on a few crochet projects instead of reading. (view spoiler)[ Wallace just left to go fight in the Spanish Civil war. I cannot imagine where this story is going at all. It seems like something momentous IS going to happen in a few more chapters though, so I will try to keep reading. (hide spoiler)]

That's a great quote, Katrisa.

Cherie - I think there are some surprises ahead for you, but the pacing seemed pretty consistent.

I am just starting on Chapter Nineteen.

At Chapter Twenty
(view spoiler)[Hmm. What I got out of chapter nineteen is that Tinker is a fraud and a kept man. Ann G is a rich old woman and Tinker’s keeper. Hank hates what Teddy is and won’t accept his money. Katy was pretty crushed. She had fallen for him. Wow, I have so many questions! Did the wheelchair at her desk mean that she doesn’t have a job anymore?
Bitsy didn’t seem to mind that Katy was not “in her class” or even surprised at her story regarding Tinker. I’m not sure I get it all yet though. I feel a little slow. (hide spoiler)] I will keep reading. No crochet tonight. Oh, and since George was mentioned. Happy President’s Day!

At Chapter Twenty-One
(view spoiler)[ Whew. She still has a job. Yes, I definitely don’t like Anne G! Never did really. She never seemed “Aunty-like”. I felt sorry for Tinker but Worse for Kate. The bathroom/tub scene at the end of chapter twenty was terrible. I could not have thought of a worse place for her to go than to Dicky! (hide spoiler)]

Cherie wrote: "At Chapter Twenty-One
[spoilers removed]"

That scene surprised me too. I was not expecting her to go there at all.

I finished Chapter Twenty-Two during my lunch break.
(view spoiler)[ This last chapter put a slightly different slant on Dicky.
Maybe I don't dislike him as much. Hank presented a more positive light for his brother to Kate, when he met her at the night club. The paper airplane scene was pretty funny. I loved what he wrote to the children who had had the pillow fight. And now, Anne G is back in the picture in chapter twenty-three, but I have to get back to work. I cannot wait to get home today to read. (hide spoiler)]

I have not read any spoilers yet.

Okay - I finished the book. I have been thinking about the whole point of it, if there is one. As a character study, I liked it, but it was slow for me. I realize that every story cannot be filled with exciting minute by minute surprises. I think my biggest problem was that I loved A Gentleman in Moscow so much and I think I wanted it again. I just finished reading all of the spoilers and noted that Kristie pointed out that RoC was his first novel. I definitely enjoyed the last half of the book more than the first, but without the first half, we would not have had the background and information on the characters to compare. (view spoiler)[I was totally proud of Kate when she dropped Anne's keys to the appartment down her pants! What a hoot, especially after the kiss. Hank joining the Army was a shock. I was so sad that Wallace was killed, but I was so glad when Kate met up with Tinker. I was happy for him that he finally decided that he could do what he wanted and go where he wanted. Like Kate though, I thought he might have gone off on an adventure somewhere though. Good on Dicky for growing up! Yes, at the end, I was surprised that the "Val" was Wallace's brother and that he and Kate had been happy. (hide spoiler)]

I still love Towles' writing style and agree that he writes women well. I am really looking forward to The Lincoln Highway.

Thanks, Kristie, for keeping me going with the story. I did not realize how close my library book was to expiring while I was not reading. It quietly disappeared from my iPad this morning and I would have had to wait for another month to get it back.