The Sword and Laser discussion

So, I'm familiar with the idea of a kenning - at least as familiar as wikipedia can make me - and that's what I figure is going on with the phrase thought-cage. But why is this basically the only example and why does he use it twice a chapter? I think kennings are supposed to be for ornamentation, they would make more sense when a jarl or mercenary is speaking of their deeds or something. I don't really buy that someone's internal monologue includes thought-cage instead of mind, head, brain, etc.

Really, though, that's the only complaint I can level against the book so far. I'm enjoying it.

I don't know. Id the author a pretentious git?

There was a BBC radio show about thought cages but I could not read the article because I needed to pay to read more. So at least the term was out there in the UK. John is a down to earth guy, married to a teacher, and one son also became a teacher.

I was initially confused by this post and then I read the relevant chapter (8 I think) and yep, thought-cages. It’s not a term I’ve encountered before (and I live in the UK, so it’s definitely not in common parlance on this side of the pond). Is it perhaps a literal translation of an Old Norse term that Gwynne thought sounded cool?

I asked my friend Google and the only hits for "thought cage norse" were for this book. I think he made it up.

We keep Tom & Veronica's thoughts in cages between podcasts.

I guess battle fame is a kenning for valor? Not really nearly as specific a substitution as thought-cage, and not as clearly an effort to take a simple concept and ornament it however. Anyway, it's thought-cages all the way to the end, and I eventually got used to it.

So, I had to good fortune to study Old English in college. And in Old English / Norse culture, kennings aren't just a form of nickname or honorific - they're part of poetry as well, which would be very prominent in a society where literacy is rare or nonexistent. As an example, using a term like "whale-road" to refer to the sea.

As for why the term "thought-cage" would be used instead of "mind," well, I'd say it's how the characters would express the concept, the same way we use words like "brain" and "head" when we mean "mind."

What's a kenning? It only appears once in the book.

It's a bit of more poetic language used in place of a single word.

I know the term "ring giver" was used at least once, as a kenning for "leader." There's plenty, if you know what to look for.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the concept isn't explained in the book - it's something every character would be familiar with.

Sean wrote: "I know the term "ring giver" was used at least once, as a kenning for "leader."

Thanks, Sean. Probably thought-cage would have stuck out less-prominently for me if I'd noticed some more of those others. You mentioned "whale road," and I remember that one is in there. For more kenning examples there's actually an extant medieval Icelandic text that explains them, which is pretty cool. Here's one translation: https://sacred-texts.com/neu/pre/pre0...

And an example:
Snorri Sturluson wrote: "

In the ancient Bjarkamál many terms for gold are told: it says there:

The king most gift-gracious
His guardsmen enriched
With Fenja's Labor,
With Fáfnir's Midgard,
Glasir's bright Needles,
Grani's fair Burden,
Draupnir's dear dripping,
Down of Grafvitnir.

The free-handed Lord gave,
The heroes accepted,
Sif's firm-grown tresses,
Ice of the bow-force,
Otter-gild unwilling,
Weeping of Mardöll,
Fire-flame of Órun,
Idi's fine Speeches.

Gold is metaphorically termed Fire of the Hand, or of the Limb, or of the Leg, because it is red; but silver is called Snow, or Ice, or Hoar-Frost, because it is white.

"

I have read translations of Snorri Sturluson's work (its hard work), a lot of norse inspire books and a lot of these terms left me lost.,

I still think if you are going to use archaic language in a modern story you should make it clear from the text what the words are without using a glossary.

I mean, the few terms that I didn't recognize seemed to have some pretty clear context clues.

There is deep-cunning with this author.