Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

This is a Buddy Read for Foreigner by C.J. Cherryh starting on April 12, 2024.


Happy Reading

Thank you!

Foreigner is a huge ongoing series, but is largely sorted into three book arcs. I figure we can request trilogy by trilogy, and adjust as necessary. If we go straight through, here's a schedule:

Arc 1:
1. Foreigner (Apr 12)
2. Invader (May 12) [Link]
3. Inheritor (Jun 12) [Link]

Arc 2:
4. Precursor (Jul 12) [link]
5. Defender (Aug 12) [link]
6. Explorer (Sep 12) [link]

7. Destroyer (Oct 12)
8. Pretender (Nov 12)
9. Deliverer (Dec 12)

4th Trilogy, 2025
10. Conspirator (Jan 12)
11. Deceiver (Feb 12)
12. Betrayer (Mar 12)

13. Intruder (Apr 12)
14. Protector (May 12)
15. Peacemaker (Jun 12)

16. Tracker (Jul 12)
17. Visitor (Aug 12)
18. Convergence (Sep 12)

19. Emergence (Nov 12)
20. Resurgence (Dec 12)
21. Divergence (Jan 12 2026)

22. Defiance (Feb 12 2026)
Probably have a book or two more by this time.

Audio: 1-19 are on Audible as Audible Only. Apparently the audiobook contract fell apart so the last few have yet to be converted, and the audio is in limbo.

Ebooks: Open Library has a copy of the ebook and volunteer-made audio. I haven't tried them out though so I don't know the quality, or what their schtick is.

https://openlibrary.org/authors/OL264...

Some background on the series--this has been described as Anthropological SF, and as a successful application of "tell" as much as "show" in writing--a lot of linguistic and cultural ruminations that I really enjoy, but some might find dry. The first book is probably the weakest in the series, but it consistently improves. I'd recommend trying the first trilogy and deciding if it's for you, or at least giving book 2 a try.

I am so in! Have been wanting to read this series forever!!!

Yay!

Nirkatze wrote: "Thank you!

Foreigner is a huge ongoing series, but is largely sorted into three book arcs. I figure we can request trilogy by trilogy, and adjust as necessary. If we go straight through, here's a ..."

Big plans, as always... I love your new strategy of linking all books in the series in your first post now, instead of just saying IN :D

I'm into space anthropology/archeology... maybe with a hint of mystery?... just thinking of Alex Benedict / Academy...

This is definitely more anthropology than archaeology, with an emphasis on the psychology--a lot of philosophical ruminations on the nature of culture and relationships, and whether we can really understand an alien culture... or another being, period.

Putting all the links and series books in the top post satisfies the Type A parts of my personality. I think you started it, with the book club threads--it's really nice having the information there to refer to! I don't always have time or energy to do more than a Thank you! (to steal the top spot) but I try to come back... been going back through the upcoming BRs and adding information slowly...

If the story is broken into trilogies, I guess I'll stop at #18, until 20+ get audio... I'm really interested in the series, from the blurbs and what I've heard here...

Maybe if we're lucky they'll have figured themselves out by then... I guess we'll see when we get there! I know the books are grouped in to 3 book arcs wherever I see folk talk about them, but I'm not sure how strongly that holds up in reading...

The blurbs talk in arcs, too, for the most part...

Yeah... I was a bit thrown by the blurbs of some of the latest books, looks like #22 might still be part of the 19-21 arc, or something...

Tagging this so I’ll get notified when it starts. I’ve read the first book, so depending on my reading schedule, I may re-read it or join you guys starting on the 2nd book.

i have to say the first book didn’t really entice me to spend another 21 books in the same world. But people say the series gets better. So, I’ll give it a shot with you guys. At least until the 3rd book.

The first book suffers from three false starts before getting into the story, for sure. It'll be interesting to see if the next few change your mind! I do think that these also have a very distinct... flavor... that don't not work for everyone, considering how meta she gets with the anthropology and cultural aspects.

Started... interesting, so far...

Premise sounds rough... and crazy timespan... vaguely reminding me of Children of Time, kinda...

Checking the real blurb and some reviews, I haven't even reached the real story yet... I'm still in the centuries of backstory/setup...

I'm 40% in. (view spoiler)[I enjoyed the first parts and was really into the story when they made first contact with the aliens and then it went forward in time. I was a little disappointed that we didn't get more of that story. So far though, I like things about this and it's keeping me interested for the most part, but there is a lot of inner monologue for the main character, Bren that gets boring and feels too drawn out at times. There's something about Cherryh's writing that keeps me reading anyway. I'm not liking this as much as Down Below Station and the two sequels I read of that series, but I feel like this is the type of book, and probably series that I need to give time to develop before I can decide if it's for me or not. (hide spoiler)]

Tammie wrote: "I'm 40% in. [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[one of the reviews I read/skimmed said all the backstory is relevant in later books... (hide spoiler)]

I’ve been wanting to read these forever. Let’s see if I can focus.

Timelord Iain wrote: "Checking the real blurb and some reviews, I haven't even reached the real story yet... I'm still in the centuries of backstory/setup..."

Yeah--like I've said--the first book has like, three false starts.

When you meet Bren, you've hit the real story.

However--the rest of the 20+ books he's the protagonist, so it's just this first one with the crazy intro.

Having reached Bren, I question the point of the earlier sections, except to establish this as "a first contact story"?...

But... (view spoiler)[considering we're now like 350-450 years out from the first page of the story, I question how much those early chapters matter, and why they couldn't have just been explained as backstory from Bren's perspective...

We have:

1) the spaceship staying in FTL-space longer than intended, passing by their goal planet and ending up at the main one of the story instead... I think this spanned years, maybe?

2) 150 years in space, mapping the planet/etc, before entering it? (seems like a long time)...

3) 200 year time jump from first contact to Bren (the blurb says 200 years, the in-story says 6 generation, I think?...)

That's a long time to still be calling it first contact... almost longer than the US has been a country, after all...

So far, the Atevi only seem slightly alien... altho the descriptions and book cover nail in their size/color differences... (hide spoiler)]

I'd say, so far, the storytelling structure/wording leaves something to be desired (feels a bit stilted, altho part of that is probably to display the cultural differences between humans and atevi)... I'm just kinda sitting here thinking of other stories with similar feels that just flow and suck me in better...

Looking up details on the series, it sounds like the plot follows a pretty tight timeline, and has been running for 22 book in distinct trilogies... but I'm unclear how much remains to be told in this story, which concerns me a little, since Cherryh is 81... I guess that doesn't matter too much, since the last 2-3 books lack audio, anyway, but still... I like knowing my stories will have a conclusion...

Anyway, I'm sticking with it for now, and hopefully things smooth out a bit, later on or in later books...

I agree about it feeling like it doesn't flow very well. It did start to get better for me though.

50% in now. I got to the part at the Dowager's house and it became more interesting, but I still feel like there is way too much inner monologue for Bren. He goes on and on in his head thinking about things sometimes.

Tammie wrote: "I agree about it feeling like it doesn't flow very well. It did start to get better for me though.

50% in now. I got to the part at the Dowager's house and it became more interesting, but I still..."

I definitely think it's slowly improving, maybe, or I'm getting used to it...

I've gotten to the part where they're talking about sending Bren to the estate of Tabini's mother/grandmother?... nearly 33% through, I think... I'm looking forward to the Dowager... from the blurbs/wikipedia, it sounds like she's a main character long-term... the relevant characters listed on the wiki seem to be the people we've met so far (view spoiler)[Bren, the atevi guards he has, the leadership of the atevi, the dowager and heir of the leader, the opposing faction leaders on the planet, and some human characters we'll meet mostly in book 2... (hide spoiler)]

It's definitely a contemplative/monologuey book... second in a row almost, for me, after reading God Emperor of Dune, which was mostly in Leto II's head...

I'd say yea, the story got much more engaging at the Dowager Estate...

I found it really interesting, in the end, (view spoiler)[how much Bren found he identified with the Atevi more than the Humans... made it easier for him to understand what was going on than most other humans might have... (hide spoiler)]

The first book is also widely agreed to be the roughest of the lot, and from what I remember the later books have a lot more plot movement and tension from the start... Bren starts out pretty bumbling and clueless, imo... he does get better though...

I started this morning (up to Part 3 Chapter 1), and it's interesting from a rereader standpoint--though it's been about a decade or more--but being like "ah, yeah, this comes back" about the stuff in the opening... (view spoiler)[How the ship got lost, found a planet, built the space station... and then left and never returned... and the stationers--some came down to the planet... and we know something happened, but not what, yet.

Also, how Tabini-aiji keeps asking Bren "what did you see?" and he's totally clueless... he's like "nothing?" But by the end of the book... I'm pretty sure he was talking about (view spoiler)[if Bren saw the new "star" in the sky, docking at the space station... which is also why the assassins were sent. (hide spoiler)]--so it's nice catching that on a reread. (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze wrote: "I started this morning (up to Part 3 Chapter 1), and it's interesting from a rereader standpoint--though it's been about a decade or more--but being like "ah, yeah, this comes back" about the stuff..."

Oh yeah, I didn't catch that. I think you're right.

I finished and I liked it. I really want to see where this is going to go, so I want to keep reading the series, at least for now.

I always find it interesting to see how older sci-fi books age. This one still had TVs shaped like boxes and video tapes. Cars, trucks, and vans that all sounded just like what we drive.

Tammie wrote: "I finished and I liked it. I really want to see where this is going to go, so I want to keep reading the series, at least for now.

I always find it interesting to see how older sci-fi books age. T..."

I think part of that (view spoiler)[is the human colony putting the Atevi through an accelerated Industrial Revolution, through controlled technology releases, leading to the Space Exploration Age / etc... accelerated by the ending and the return of the Phoenix... (hide spoiler)]

In Ch. 16, which is 50% in... I agree with Tammie. I really wanted to know more about that first contact, the family of the dude that was kidnapped, about what happened with the kidnapper and everything! I really hope we get back to that story eventually...

I don't really have an issue with how it has been flowing once we got into the main story, and I am very intrigued by it. It really reminds me of Texicalla, maybe because it concerns the roles of diplomats in two very different cultures, both trying to live with each other, and how difficult it is even for people who are well willing, so imagine the issues with those who don't want to get along...

The Dowager seems fascinating! I expect a lot of back and forth between her and Bren and I think it will be good for both of them, and ultimately us, the readers:)

Up to 85% ... Goodness gracious! This escalated quickly. The interrogation is so intense, I can barely take it!!!! I am so nervous right now!

Yeah that part was really intense.

Finished yesterday and really loved the reread--was also thinking about how much this reminds me of Teixcalaan--it's a language and culture SF, and that's right up my alley. I was loving it from the start and didn't feel slow at all... I took notes and need to type them up, but I'm tired right now... tired a lot lately, just can't shake this bug.

This was awesome!!!! Yes, it was a rough start, but once we settled into the story, it was perfect!!! It kept me on my toes to the end! I loved it and am looking forward to continuing with the series:)))

I’ve hit Bren.

In the UK I cannot find these as ebooks. Only paperbacks. Does anyone know if I’m blind or if that’s really my only (written) option?

I am so glad that I read all of your comments and stuck with this story. At first I couldn't quite track everything going on but now have hit a good stride with Bren's story.

I agree with Tammie and Choko that I would love to know what happens to the guy who is first contact. That is a story line I hope we follow for a little bit longer as well.

Nirkatze and other reviewers seem to indicate it comes back up...

I had to re-read the first chapter twice, I got quite confused with what exactly happened to the computer. Was it human error, or machine error, or what happened?

Olivia wrote: "I had to re-read the first chapter twice, I got quite confused with what exactly happened to the computer. Was it human error, or machine error, or what happened?"

No idea... all we know is SOMETHING went wrong...

Actually, I don't remember the first contact stuff coming back up again--so if it does I'm looking forward to that too.

@Olivia, re: ebooks--I'm not sure what devices you use, but is Kobo available in UK? It's a Canadian/Japanese company, so maybe not as region-locked? Or uses universal rights? I found a thread from 2013 talking about how there's no Foreigner series copies on UK kindle, so it looks like they never solved that (and the author was involved in the thread). Some folks had success with Kobo though.
https://www.kobo.com/uk/en/ebook/fore...

I also just found a site called Open Library--a lot of Cherryh's books seem available through that, but I haven't tried it out...
https://openlibrary.org/authors/OL264...

Nirkatze wrote: "Actually, I don't remember the first contact stuff coming back up again--so if it does I'm looking forward to that too.

@Olivia, re: ebooks--I'm not sure what devices you use, but is Kobo availabl..."

Oh thank you. Yes, Kobo is available. I'm going to have a look :D

Kinda wish I knew going in about the false starts.. Hadn't read the comments here yet, I was really getting interested in Ian's bit and then it jumps ahead lol

I can tell this is something I'm going to need to be careful not to space out on.. Might have to save it for some mindless phone games! haha

I started this but threw in the towel pretty early on, reading the comments I may revisit at some point.

Found my notes from earlier!

Book 3 Chapter 3--was thinking of how a lot of folks are feeling it's slow and not enjoying much, but I love it--love all the language and culture and philosophy comparisons... (view spoiler)[Even Bren's frustration at how he's being handled--no information, no mail--just highlights how small of a player he is politically... he's like the ambassador from a relatively unimportant country with one relatively profitable export. He's not internal to their politics and not someone most people would bother with. But for some reason, they're bothering now, and Bren doesn't know how to deal. He's been tossed out of his little comfort zone and into the big ball game and he doesn't even realize it, has no idea what to do.

I keep thinking if we could have done without the multiple openings, or what the alternative would have been. I wonder what those conversations between Cherryh and her editors were like. (hide spoiler)]

Book 3 Chapter 5 (view spoiler)[I love Ilisidi! She goes on the list of badass grammas in SFF.

The tech levels in the story make me think of early-mid 1900s more than later, even though Bren has a computer. Running water, refrigeration, TV and radio but no internet, all phones are landlines, no cells or carry devices. Planes and trains but no flying cars, no SF level tech outside of the space station and prologue. And of course, assassination tech.

Yes, the poisoning was totally on purpose. Ilisidi's way of saying hello. And seeing how smart (or stupid) Bren was. How effective his staff is. And a way to test whether she really wants to kill him or not. She hasn't decided yet.

Love their conversation on culture...

I love the idea of the Assassin's Guild being an integral part of political life... and bodyguards of course must be part of the guild...

Banichi & Jago are very good at deflection. I love the dance around Bren's mail. Bren keeps wondering "what did I do?" but he never once asks if it was something someone else did, that upset the balance of power. If there was an external force that the Atevi are scrabbling to understand, and which they are trying to figure out what their captive foreigner knows--if they were played, or if this is random... (hide spoiler)]

Book 3 Chapter 7--(view spoiler)[The tourists, with the ribbons... Part of the formality of everything, from the different coats to wear, and ribbons in his braid, is what make me put this civilization level in early 1900s rather than later--dressing up for dinner, formal invitations, things like that still happened back then...

It's so interesting seeing Bren interact with a busfull of children--children who are the least indoctrinated by manners and cultural strictures, able to absorb new ideas and act in wonder... Very shameful for an assassin to make an attack where those tourists could have been hurt. (hide spoiler)]

Book 3 Chapter 8--some sneaky humor here: (view spoiler)[As a dinner date, he’d been a dismal substitute for Jago, who’d been off explaining to the Guild why somebody wanted to kill the paidhi; and probably by the end of the evening, Banichi had ideas of his own why that could be.

This made me LOL. Guarding Bren's gotta try anyone's patience, and that's without adding in the cultural mishaps that no Atevi would make, just from him not being wired to read the nuances.

It actually makes me think of autism--not being able to read social cues or body language, and having to learn everything from scratch... (hide spoiler)]

Book 3 Chapter 9--(view spoiler)[The assassin at the beginning of Bren's arc was sent by Ilisidi...

And in exchange, Tabini sent Bren to her as a present, and as a challenge... she is a force of power in the East, and the East doesn't like the way Tabini's connection with Mosphera is bringing modern technology in to change things... if Bren can change Ilisidi's mind... she might be able to bring all of the Atevi associations under Tabini. If she can be convinced that it is in the best interests of her people to do so...

I think Ilisidi does like Bren... like a salad. Something amusing that might need to be eaten. (hide spoiler)]

You and I agree on all the language and culture:)))

Ilisidi is one scary badass grandma! I want her in my corner and never as an enemy!!! Her stance on what her people need has a lot of good points, but also a ton of questionable ones...

The tech/ low tech level is easily acceptable because of the mix of the locals and Earth folks...

The fact that you have to register an intend to get revenge is a great detail!

I had so much fun reading this! So excited for the next one!!!

Ann-Marie wrote: "I started this but threw in the towel pretty early on, reading the comments I may revisit at some point."

It definitely took some work, early on, and I'm glad I knew to not get too attached to early POVs...

Choko wrote: "You and I agree on all the language and culture:)))

Ilisidi is one scary badass grandma! I want her in my corner and never as an enemy!!! Her stance on what her people need has a lot of good poin..."

And I love that your revenge-application can be rejected too. Like, I've read series with assassin's guilds, and even ones where a specific person is not allowed to be contracted on, but I can't think of one where it's an open and accepted part of society, and not a guild that functions in the shadows.

Also glad @Choko pointed out about the old/new tech dichotomy being very appropriate for the traditional Atevi/modern Mosphera schism...

Glad I persisted through the earlier bits because it got quite intense towards the end!

Glad you kept with it too, Emily!

Emily, that ending was awesome! The tension was so intense, I could barely take it!!! And the granny was definitely a much more complex character than I thought in the beginning...

Ilisidi is a mainstay for the whole series. I love her.