Ursula K. LeGuin discussion

I'm hoping somebody will be able to explain this story to me, because I don't really understand what it's about. It seems to me to be a series of incidents in Yoss's life, and I'm not sure what connects them.
I suppose the title must be a clue, but I still can't see it!

I'm sure this is me being stupid, because UKLG is a great writer and it can't be her fault. So what am I missing?

Jenny, I do not think you are being stupid! I will give you my thoughts about the theme of this story, but perhaps I am wrong.

I thought that each of the stories in this book was about finding a way to stay true to an inner belief or principle, in a world that tries to force its people to give up all sense of themselves. For me, 'Betrayals' charted times when Yoss' beliefs about the world were challenged, and how she responded: whether she ended up adapting, or whether she realised that her own principles were correct. For example, at the opening we see Eyid and Wada, the lovers she allows to use her house as a meeting place, and we realise that Yoss is flouting the rules of her community by allowing them to be together. But she thinks that it's wrong for them to be separated for petty prejudices, so she gives them a place to be together.

Yoss is most challenged by her relationship with Abberkam, someone she disagrees with vehemently, and on a personal level does not like. But when he is she feels it is her duty to care for him, and gradually she starts to see him with more nuance, which challenges a core belief for her. I think another one of the central themes of the story is the question: can we see past our own prejudices? Is it possible to see good in someone whose views we find abhorrent? Because Yoss' world is so ravaged by war, the story it gives a very real sense of how important it is to find common ground with someone, and yet that same background of war shows us how deeply and fundamentally people betray one another. Le Guin raises complex questions without giving any definite answers here -- something I love about her work!

This was one of my favourite stories from the book, because I loved the atmosphere Le Guin creates of the lonely salt-marshes, and Yoss' small house with her foxdog and hunting cat. I like how Yoss is very uncompromising in lots of ways, and how her kindness is often hidden by a brusque nature. I can picture her very clearly.

Rosamond has many valid points in her response to Jenny's post. I agree that this is my favorite story in the collection. Yet, I think we don't really come to understand how rich it is until we've read the other stories in the collection, which give a lot of background that may seem to be missing. Chronologically it may be the last story, but I'm not sure about that. Perhaps someone has taken the time to put the four stories in order? What really strikes me is the way the author seems to encourage us to go back and reread the first story. Going back to the beginning, completing the circle, is a common theme in her work, which is explicit in Always Coming Home.

Hi, sorry for the late addition to the thread, we had torrential rain stating last Thursday and all to the weekend and I've been playing catch-up with the aftermath...

I'll first add my immediate comments after finishing reading the story, then I'll comment of what has been discussed up to now.

It’s always been hard to put into words how I feel about Le Guin’s writing. There’s the beauty of it. The economy of words, each one consciously chosen, and this rhythm her prose has that makes it easy to keep reading, sliding along the story. So, I find it pleasurable to read her works for the craft itself, but then there’s also how she manages to say so much, in subtle ways and in very on-the-nose ways about our world while showing us worlds far from ours. This one, I think, is a story in which she expresses the very human need of explain oneself, of coming to terms with earlier parts of our lives, in order to move on.

This story is one that works hard on the subtle side of telling things but has some very on-the-nose moments. I liked it. One thing that surprised me about it is how subversive it feels. Not only are the themes and characters of a kind that it’s often abandoned by the literary mainstream, because old people and their preoccupations are not sexy, but she also subverts our expectations with her title, by focusing our attention on exactly what's not in the story, a life changing betrayal.

But then, again, if we look so much closer, there are little and seemingly meaningless betrayals happening on every page. There’s Yoss, deciding that silence is not for her. There are the lovers, abandoning their togetherness as it becomes more of a real thing. There's Tukuli, dying, taking with him Yoss's last tangible link to her daughter. Even winter seems to betray Yoss, pushing her into stealing what no one wants and, ultimately, pushing her into a future that feels less certain-death and more of a chance. In a way, is as if Le Guin is telling us that we have to betray our expectations of getting old to then see that old is not the end of the road.

I think that, if we put together the title of the book, the one of this story and what happens within, a picture emerges, this is a story about forgiving oneself as a way to find a new meaning to our lives. We must betray who we think we are, to then find out who we really are.

Yoss most forgive herself and what she feels she has betrayed (the idea of remaining in silence, not enjoying candy and conversation for the sake of an old religion) to see that while old, she still deserves companionship and love. Similarly, Abberkam most forgive himself, wrong as he was and terrible as he did, to then accept the real motivations behind his past betrayals and understand that it was fear that motivated him and that it's fear what now keeps him apart from others.

Yoss and Abberkam are both faced with their "betrayals" as they come together. They push each other buttons, but it's in that antagonistic exchange that they start to forgive themselves. Yet, Le Guin leaves a the process undone on purpose. They are not a happy-forever couple, but a reluctant one. One that in Le Guin's own words, ask:

"‘Would there be any peace between us?’she said at last.
‘Do you need peace? |
After a while she smiled a little."

Because, that's how forgiveness works, little by little and having to put a lot of work.

As I said, I liked the story, and I liked the references to the Left Hand of Darkness and the impolite lie of a world without war, as if that means no violence.

I also like how this story sits among the other three, but that’s a discussion for later.

Rosamund wrote: "Le Guin raises complex questions without giving any definite answers here -- something I love about her work!"

Fully agree with you. It's that sense of the story still going beyond the written pages that allows the reader to interpret it as they need to.

And I do also agree that Yoss is, in a way, betraying the community around her by not following their unwritten rules, those about the lovers and, to some extent, those about herself.

Judy wrote: "What really strikes me is the way the author seems to encourage us to go back and reread the first story. Going back to the beginning, completing the circle, is a common theme in her work, which is explicit in Always Coming Home."

I haven't yet read the last story but, even so, I see how the circular references within but also the ones to other works of her, other worlds, do may for an enriched second read.

Jenny wrote: "It seems to me to be a series of incidents in Yoss's life, and I'm not sure what connects them.
I suppose the title must be a clue, but I still can't see it!"

I wrote more about how I think the tittle of the book, the one of the story and what the story is about connect in my post, but perhaps the easiest way to see how the title informs the story is wonder about being betrayed and what that means for Yoss.

While reading, I asked, did Yoss betray someone? Herself? Has she been betrayed? Then, as this book is also about forgiveness, as by its tittle, then I also asked myself, did Yoss forgive the betrayals in her life? And if she did, what does it mean for her? For her life?

I think that questioning the story on this terms help us see the pattern that gives it meaning... Yes, Yoss has betrayed herself, her beliefs, and the beliefs of others. But those betrayals are not a bad thing because those beliefs were limiting and resulted in deep unhappiness, for her, for the lovers, for the community in general, so when she betrays those beliefs and forgives herself for not upholding them anymore, that's when she starts to see herself -and Abberkan- in a new light.

It's that light that lets her see she's old but not dead, not like Tikuli. So there's still a chance to live, to enjoy, to love and to forgive some more.

I'm sure my interpretation of the story may not be correct, and surely not the only one, but it's one that makes sense to me and that helps me find a connecting thread between each event in the story.

Thank you, Francisca, for an excellent analysis of the story. You have definitely enriched my understanding of it.

Judy wrote: "Thank you, Francisca, for an excellent analysis of the story. You have definitely enriched my understanding of it."

You're too kind.

Francisca said, And I do also agree that Yoss is, in a way, betraying the community around her by not following their unwritten rules, those about the lovers and, to some extent, those about herself."

It occurred to me that in Yoss' life, each betrayal is a movement towards something else. By accepting and helping the lovers, she betrays the community that excludes them. If her daughter's leaving is a betrayal, it was also a desire to know a different life. If not locking herself in silence is a betrayal, it is also a movement towards a different life, an affirmation that she may be old, but is not yet ready to die. Could Abberkam's betrayal be the first, painful step towards a different life, the life he seems ready to undertake with Yoss? Is betrayal a synonym for Turning Point?


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Thank you, everyone! That's brilliant. I'm going to go back and start reading again and I'm sure it will make more sense to me this time.

Judy wrote: "It occurred to me that in Yoss' life, each betrayal is a movement towards something else."

That's an interesting point. I agree with it. I also think this is Le Guin's way to play with our expectations. At least with mine, since I read this story expecting a betrayal only to them realize many of the little actions guiding the story were the betrayals guiding the characters into a new beginning.

This idea of Le Guin's playing with the readers' expectations only became more clear to me as I read the next story, since that one promise a Day of Forgiveness but it's full of life changing betrayals. For me, it feels as if, using the title, Le Guin has linked each story with the next.