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An Average Man
An average man - May 2024
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1. Along the way
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Manuel
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rated it 3 stars
May 01, 2024 11:42AM
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Although i could not read i will try to follow the discussion with big interest.
I am enjoying reading this book a lot. The writing is very good, there’s some admirable observations and, most importantly of all I’ve no idea where the book is going.
Richard wrote: "I am enjoying reading this book a lot. The writing is very good, there’s some admirable observations and, most importantly of all I’ve no idea where the book is going."Benson is really really good. I speak from my own experience. For me he is an undervalued writer. If he had lived more time with good health. I do not know where he could reach in the catholic literature.
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The situation is somewhat similar to Julia Blythe's marriage with Rex Motram in Brideshead Revisited: The Sacred and Profane Memories of Captain Charles Ryder, which we revised in the club. But the ending is quite different.
Somebody literary experts said that Benson was the Master of Ronald Knox and the last influenced a lot in Evelyn Waugh. It does not surprise me the comment of the Professor. Benson has the "Sentamentalists" in this plot line.
Richard wrote: "I am enjoying reading this book a lot. The writing is very good, there’s some admirable observations and, most importantly of all I’ve no idea where the book is going."I am also enjoying the book (about half way now) and marking some paragraphs. I will write them in the "Favorite quotes" thread.
I love the account of Percy's conversion and what happens thereafter, though I'm waiting for the inevitable "letdown" when he realizes he hasn't been instantaneously transformed! (I'm not very far into the book yet.)
Manuel wrote: "I have finished. This is my review:https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."
Tomorrow i will start to read it. I put like to the review but i do not read yet.
I love the contrast between the Anglican and the Catholic churches. The later has everything necessary and nothing "of interest", e.g. elegant.Boring jobs/schedules crush everything "elastic," creative.
convinced not by theological truths but by their embodiment in a genuine, attractive person (Father Hilary)
I can't help being disappointed by how totally wealth and power corrupt all the Smiths.
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Well, you know, power corrupts (Lord Acton dixit).
Richard wrote: "I am enjoying reading this book a lot. The writing is very good, there’s some admirable observations and, most importantly of all I’ve no idea where the book is going."I agree with all of what you say! RHB is one of my favorite authors. Jane Austen had her "little bit of ivory," and Benson does something similar in how he penetrates the surface lives of a few characters to reveal what's in their hearts.
I have started to read i am in the page 35. On monday i will continue.
How tremendously hard, raw, and bitter is the end of Chapter IV. In the Benson he makes no concessions when describing the Brandreth Smiths. They live, but without living passively.
What Benson says about Father Hilary, and his great charisma and attraction to attract the parishioners reminds me of what both Joseph Pearce and Shane Leslie said about Robert Hugh himself when he was a priest at Cambridge University and was so successful among students. The academic authorities, concerned about the possibility of the students converting to Catholicism, tried to persuade Robert Hugh Benson's brother, A.C. Benson, to restrain his brother's ardor and, if they were so concerned, they should devote themselves to sending Anglican preachers to Cambridge University (which, let us remember, has always been hostile to the Catholic faith), as good as his brother.
I don't know why my suspicions about Percy have been confirmed. Let's see how long the state of grace lasts.
There are such sudden conversions, and I would like to recall in particular those of Paul Claudel and André Frossard. Don Miguel Ayuso always thought the conversion of the Spanish priest and philosopher García Morente was very much like a movie.
I don't know if I'm hugely wrong, but Helen has a Bohemian touch that reminds me of the ill-fated Bloomsbury Group of infamous memory. Praised more than fairly, as Colonel Pound would say in a case of Father Brown.
It's funny how bad people are about actors. I remember that in England until the time of Charles II, only men could act. Molière's widow had to ask Louis XIV's permission to be buried. I don't understand why in some countries theatre is so frowned upon? In Spain we didn't have that problem and women could act. Maybe it's because some actors have very progressive and liberal habits. This comes for the woman on the train.
Percy's argument with Mr. Main reminds me a lot of the Guindal with Anthony in "By What Authority?" In addition, they have other things in common: the mistreatment suffered by both characters. Grindal at the hands of Queen Elizabeth, and Main at the hands of his wife Marion Main, who despises him for not having achieved the social ascent she desires. Grindal who had a lot of Robert Hugh Benson's father is a good and well-meaning person as Main is.
In the program presented by my much-admired Don Juan Manuel de Prada called Lágrimas en la lluvia (Tears in the Rain), it was said that God punished bad clerics with congresses, meetings and social engagements, and from what I see Robert Hugh Benson must think so, and we see it in the character of Main. PD. As in the case of Charles Peguy, it seems that the greatest obstacle to Mr. Main's conversion is his wife
I've been looking for the most perfect definition for poor Mr. Main. In Spain we call this type of people "calzonazos" and, I have looked for an equivalent in English and, I have come up with this wimp, wuss henpecked husband. He is a man who lives annulled and castrated by his wife.
When I write my critique I will reply to Mr. Railton's arguments. What I can say is that it is one thing for the Pope to be infallible in matters of faith, and quite another thing is that, like any normal man, he cannot sin or make mistakes. That would also refute Railton's argument of the monsters who have sat on St. Peter's Chair. They are Popes, but they are also men like us. Evelyn Waugh in "Brideshead Revisited" gives a good example when Father Mowbray is explaining the fundamentals of the faith to Rex Mottram and tells him to suppose the Pope says it's raining, and Rex Mottram tells him that if the Pope says it it's raining. Mowbray tells him that And if it doesn't rain in spite of everything, and Rex Mottram retorts that it's raining spiritually. When what he should say is true, it doesn't rain, because although the Pope is infallible in matters of faith, he is not infallible in other fields, even if his points of view have to be considered and taken into account. That's how I would have responded if I were in Rex Mottram's situation.
Looking at the case of Railton, I am going to tell a little anecdote. We all know that St. John Henry Newman wrote the "Apologia pro vita sua" to refute some slanders that Charles Kingsley had said about St. John Henry Newman. It seems that the reason Kingsley did it was because his wife was thinking due to John Henry Newman's influence on being Catholic and ordained a nun, and Kingsley had to use all his arguments to avoid it. He never forgave John Henry Newman for this, and for that he defamed him. It seemed to me a motif very similar to Railton's.
I think I know where it's going to go, but I'm going to wait, but it reminds me of the bush in the parable of the sower.
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But Kingsley case was different. He was a believer of the Church of England, trying to prevent his wife to convert. His parallel is not Railton, who is a deserter priest, but Mr. Bennett, who tried to keep Percy as his parishioner.
Manuel wrote: "Fonch wrote: "Looking at the case of Railton, I am going to tell a little anecdote. We all know that St. John Henry Newman wrote the "Apologia pro vita sua" to refute some slanders that Charles Kin..."It is possible that it was not the best example. But when i read the married i thought in Charles Kingsley and this story. Certainly Barbey D'Aurevilly wrote a novel called "The married priest" to prevent this. It does not like to the bishop of Paris and the enemies of the Catholic Faith.
I surprised me that Kingsley was a priest because his novels does not look anticatholic looks me irreligious. Hypathia was replied by Fabiola and "Callista Sketches of the third century"
I don't know why, but this reminds me of Honore Balzac's "The Wild Ass's Skin", when the protagonist finds the skin of the donkey just like Percy. Their luck changes and their fortunes and economy improve. I wonder if this is coincidental, or not? And if this will not have a Faustian consequence, also as in Balzac's novel?
I see that the problem that our friend (Percy) has, apart from the problem of Solomon (who because of his wives began to make sacrifices to pagan gods) is an issue related to nationalism and snobbery. Her conversation with her mother shows how authentic Anglicans are social clubs and, more activists, than a religious congregation.
With regard to a certain conversation between Bennet and Mabel about Mr. Railton, one might say the zeal of the convert, or rather of the Apostate.
On page 303, it seems that Benson did take the legend of Parsifal into account when writing this novel. Even though Percy is here, I left a lot to be desired.
As I'm reading this part thinking about Gladys and Mabel, I don't know why the movie Mogambo comes to mind. The point is not that a woman should seduce a man she loves to save him from adultery. It reminds me of Mogambo because of the love triangle. Mabel seems like a dark version of Ava Gadner's character, and she fights so that the protagonist doesn't become a Catholic, and I didn't sin against the norms of good society. Embodying, or being, an allegory of post-Reformation England. Gladys, on the other hand, although she is not Catholic, is the one who can keep Percy away from this bonfire of vanities and social commitments in which he has been trapped since his mother inherited that fortune.
The issue of divorce and separation and the position of the Catholic Church on this is very well explained. It's true that he doesn't talk about marriage annulments, but I like to read a speech like Benson's in these times.
I admit that there would be a possibility of marrying a divorced person, and that is that he or she has not been married in the Church, but in the civil one. Since civil marriage is not recognized, it is as if this person had never married and, therefore, marriage is possible. Then there are cases like Evelyn Waugh, who married as an Anglican, divorced his wife Evelyn (her name was after him) and, being a Catholic, was able to marry Laura.
Another case similar to that of Evelyn Waugh is that of the Norwegian Sigrid Undset who married, divorced her husband, converted to Catholicism, and as he was hostile to Catholicism, the marriage was not ratified and remained single. The one who was obsessed with the Church approving divorce at any cost was Morris West. I must admit that Scandal in the Assembly is one of the worst books I have ever read. Because of the author's pro-divorce and modernist views.
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Perhaps Benson didn't want the relation of the names to be clear, and thus he used the German name (Parsifal) rather than the English (Percival), which would have been transparent.
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But Evelyn Waugh had to wait several years until his first marriage was officially annulled, before being able to marry his second wife.
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This may be a different case, corresponding to what Canonical Code calls "the Pauline privilege" (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline...)
Oh the protagonist sends the letters badly or, the English postal system leaves a lot to be desired ;-).
Mabel has something of a femme fatale not because she is immersed in vice, or crime as in a hardboiled novel or movie is a femme fatale because it leads the protagonist to his doom and to doing what is not right. I will say this in my review.
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No, the problem was that he gave his letter to a servant, and the latter forgot to post it until one week later. At that time, the English postal system was very good.
What a Machiavellian woman Mrs. Brandreth Smith is, I wouldn't want to have her as an enemy for anything in the world.
The conclusion of this novel might be, "What good does it profit a man to gain the world if he loses his soul?" "Enter the narrow path, for wide is the path of the perdition"
Manuel wrote: "Fonch wrote: "Oh the protagonist sends the letters badly or, the English postal system leaves a lot to be desired ;-)."No, the problem was that he gave his letter to a servant, and the latter for..."
So the first meaning is the correct one, and it's a mistake on the part of the book's protagonist.
Manuel wrote: "Fonch wrote: "On page 303, it seems that Benson did take the legend of Parsifal into account when writing this novel. Even though Percy is here, I left a lot to be desired."Perhaps Benson didn't ..."
At least it wasn't a randomly chosen name, and it had a clear function within the novel.
Manuel wrote: "Fonch wrote: "Another case similar to that of Evelyn Waugh is that of the Norwegian Sigrid Undset who married, divorced her husband, converted to Catholicism, and as he was hostile to Catholicism, ..."I did know about the Pauline Privilege, but I didn't want to mention it in case I was mistaken. A very curious case is that of Charles Peguy who married an anti-Catholic woman civilly and then fell in love with a Catholic girl, but in the end chose to continue with his first wife. He was not fully converted, and died heroically in World War I.
It's a very sad ending, but as my friend says, the great Turbiales can't always be won.
Manuel wrote: "Fonch wrote: "On page 303, it seems that Benson did take the legend of Parsifal into account when writing this novel. Even though Percy is here, I left a lot to be desired."Perhaps Benson didn't ..."
I would love to hear more about how the Parsifal legend applies here. I am unfamiliar with it; reading a brief summary is intriguing -- it seems that Percy's story is an inversion of that story, in that his mother leads him astray rather than protecting him, and he goes from innocence to the brink of truth/peace but then ends up in delusion.
It's quite devastating of a story, and all the more because to most of the other characters, who have a worldly perspective, Percy ends the book "having it all." Like an x-ray -- the truth is the opposite of what appears to be seen. Benson is so good at showing the truth!
Fonch wrote: "The conclusion of this novel might be, "What good does it profit a man to gain the world if he loses his soul?" "Enter the narrow path, for wide is the path of the perdition""Absolutely right, Fonch!
