Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion

If anyone would like to lead the December discussion for Yellowface by R.F. Kuang, please let me know. You can respond here or dm me directly.

Reading discussion for Yellowface:

Today thru Nov 30th - Gen’l information about the book
Dec 1st thru Dec 6th - Chap 1 thru 7
Dec 7th thru Dec 14th - thru chap 14

Dec 15th entire book open

I had completely forgotten that Yellowface is a book about books and authors and a book about the publishing industry and so on…. I love books about all of those things and after reading the first couple of chapters this sounds like the book for me.

What books about books, authors, reading, the publishing industry have you enjoyed over the years? Fiction particularly but non-fiction as well if you have one.

I have a tag on my Goodreads just for books about book readers! The Reading List comes to mind as one of the better ones.

Wanda wrote: "I have a tag on my Goodreads just for books about book readers! The Reading List comes to mind as one of the better ones."

Nice, Wanda! You have several on your list that I’ve read. I liked the book content in both The Other Black Girl & The Storied Life Of A.J. Fikry. Although I only liked Fikry as a whole. Black Girl I enjoyed the first 3/4.

I don't know how fast you want to go down the postmodern slope, and maybe autofiction is off-topic here, but Paul Auster and Percival Everett come to mind as authors who have created fictional writers, characters named after themselves, or obvious fictional doubles.

Yeah The Other Black Girl seriously fell off when it turned sci fi seemingly out of nowhere.

Wanda wrote: "Yeah The Other Black Girl seriously fell off when it turned sci fi seemingly out of nowhere."

Indeed. Like she brought Jordan Peele in to save something that didn’t need saving at all.

triumphant ✮⋆˙ wrote: "ColumbusReads wrote: "If anyone would like to lead the December discussion for Yellowface by R.F. Kuang, please let me know. You can respond here or dm me directly."

i'm not quite sure i'm the ri..."

You’re a minor? Under 18 I’m assuming. This book is listed under “adult” fiction so I would be a little uncomfortable having you participate, if that’s the case. I’m sorry and hope you understand.

i've already read yellowface but i think i'd overdue for another read - i think i read it back in august last year - and since i keep seeing jokes being made about how as the months pass and authors are discovered to be partaking in a version of june's foolery, the novel seems more and more like a nonfiction piece instead LOL

@ColumbusReads i understand. the fact that it's technically "adult fiction" completely skipped my mind lol. i don't typically read ya so that's probably the reason

What other authors have been discovered to be doing this as well?

triumphant ✮⋆˙ wrote: "@ColumbusReads i understand. the fact that it's technically "adult fiction" completely skipped my mind lol. i don't typically read ya so that's probably the reason"

No problem at all. It’s a slippery slope though as far as that is concerned with content, maturity, complexity etc…and everyone is different. That’s all.

maya ☆ wrote: "i've already read yellowface but i think i'd overdue for another read - i think i read it back in august last year - and since i keep seeing jokes being made about how as the months pass and author..."

Lol really? I would like to know more about this. June, gurl!

Ok, so it’s December 1st. Our last discussion of the year. Yellowface received a lot of notice when it was released and I knew immediately it was one I wanted to read. A lot of noise out there from writers and others in the book world who identified with many things in this book. I can see why. There’s so many book-related things that were foreign to me from the first seven chapters alone.

#What’s your thoughts on these first 7 chapters? The setting, characters, writing style etc…
#Have you read this author before?
#You like this book cover? I’m reading the hardcover so not sure if the paperback is the same.

I read this book back in January I believe. I do not really follow the book world so I was not aware of the talk surrounding this book. I read this book because I was looking for another book by an Asian author. I had recently read Celeste Ng’s latest novel and then The School for Good Mothers (unfortunately I cannot remember the author‘s name without looking it up). This book was highly advertised on Goodreads, which is ironic given she talks about that type of thing in the novel.

can we talk about how Yellowface is sort of prophetic, considering how many authors are now being outed as having faked their race to market their books better?

If people want more context regarding that, i suggest you see Cindy Pham's (@withcindy on YouTube) videos covering those incidents

My initial thoughts on this book is that June is a terrible person, and there is no redemption for her. I hope the author doesn’t attempt that. She has managed to convince herself that the book she stole from a woman she watched die is her work and represents her talent and therefore she deserves all the praise/accolades that should have been hers in the first place. It’s sinister. I don’t know if the author means it to come off that way given the lightness of the writing but it is definitely my perception. I’ll say more later.

I really enjoyed this book. The main characters are not at all likeable which sometimes sours me toward books but it didn't with this one. I listened to this on Libby but the cover makes you intrigued I think. They are mostly in the DC area post graduation from an ivy league school. I grew up in the DC suburbs and spent a lot of time in DC and many ivy league grads who come to DC have this attitude that they are doing something important and people need to pay attention to them and you totally get that through June and Athena. It is interesting too because it seems neither or them really have friends but consider the other a frenemy that they can't let go of. Very interesting dynamic there as well almost like "keep your friends close but enemies closer".

shubhster⁷ wrote: "If people want more context regarding that, i suggest you see Cindy Pham's (@withcindy on YouTube) videos covering those incidents"

Thanks for sharing this, Shubster. I didn’t know this was as common as it appears to be.

I loved that scene where Candice suggested June use a Chinese diaspora sensitivity reader for the book. Then there’s talks of cultural appropriation and cultural leeching. How things blew up after that and Candice is pretty much labeled a problem and not a team player. Candice is eventually taken off the project. Hmm, didn’t see that one coming.

Tamika wrote: "My initial thoughts on this book is that June is a terrible person, and there is no redemption for her. I hope the author doesn’t attempt that. She has managed to convince herself that the book she..."

So as I am reading this, I have to say the author has done well to help me find another tunnel to look down, to forget that she just stole this...the tunnel i can not yet look away from is her explaining and believing she can represent a culture, a race, a perspective that she does not know, but by doing research. I may be getting ahead as I am a little further in the book, but the fact that she is white trying to pull this off... i keep 1 toe on each side of the line okay you can no you cant..bu when the man who comes to the book discussion and is happy that someone can validate his relatives existence in the war, he believes she really is in the know. I decided okay no your LIE is just way too big that this Chinese man, is happy to finally being validated.

But i agree with you her audacity

This kind of reminds me about the debate that happened back when The Help came out. I remember liking the book and raving about how this white woman really understood black people’s perspectives and how grateful I was at the time (I’m embarrassed about that now 😂. I read my review again a few years ago and thought to myself I was doing too much) for the validation.

Present day me wonders who has the right to tell anyone’s stories and if they are told incredibly well, is it a knock to the author if the story isn’t theirs?

(This is a tangential discussion bc I do realize what June did was straight up wrong!)

Yes, Wanda. It makes me think about all the controversy surrounding American Dirt by Jeanine Cummins. Remember she was accused of stereotyping and appropriation in her story about the woman and son escaping a Mexican drug cartel. She sort of double-downed on protecting her rights as a white woman until she couldn’t any longer - if I recall correctly.

As I’m reading Yellowface, June and her shenanigans reminds me of the American Dirt fiasco.

ColumbusReads wrote: "Yes, Wanda. It makes me think about all the controversy surrounding American Dirt by Jeanine Cummins. Remember she was accused of stereotyping and appropriation in her story about the woman and son..."

I remember that, and I still haven't read that book because of all the controversy! Did anyone else read it? Was it worth the read?

I checked out the YouTube videos others had recommended covering incidents where the author hinted/alluded/straight up lied about their cultural or ethnic background and WOW! When reality is crazier than fiction!

In my opinion, I'm glad to read great books, and I generally don't mind who writes them so long as they are truthful about who they are and what research they did. I do however get annoyed when that book is exalted over authors who are from that cultural background and have written equally or more exceptional stories.

Another thing I'm thinking of (sorry for the rambling) that annoys me is when authors who are Black, but not American write about the Black American experience. The experience of being a Black American that they describe is generally dismal. Nuance is limited.

shubhster⁷ wrote: "If people want more context regarding that, i suggest you see Cindy Pham's (@withcindy on YouTube) videos covering those incidents"

yess and on top of that, i think @readswithrachel on youtube also covers a bit of other, i'm not entirely sure. i think most of those incidents are like digital black or redface.

about telling other's stories, i really think it's about being faithful in practice more than anything. and naturally people from a community will pretty much be able to represent themselves with confidence bcs you know, they are just like their character or whatever. for those that are trying to portray a person from another community that you're not in, it's more work to make sure you're reflecting a proper existence in say community.

ex: that's my gripe with william styron's the confession of nat turner - the way it's written is very much unlike the black mind AND revolutionary mind nat turner had. for all the good intention he may have had, the work itself is a bad look in the end for nat turner, in a piece of literature that was supposed to 'bring forth' his legacy.

I think the issue with attempting to tell the stories of people outside of your culture is that you put your own beliefs as more important than or ahead of the beliefs of those inside the culture. For example, in chapter 4, the MC describes Athena’s initial writings as “unbearably biased “ and “unbearably sanctimonious” and the “new version” is “universally relatable.” When you are telling the story of a specific culture, it doesn’t need to be “universally relatable,” it needs to be true to the culture.

What’s your thoughts on Athena? Her literary career as a whole? Also, her and Junes friendship. Were they ever really friends? Keep in mind that we’re only discussing thru chap 7.

Tamika wrote: "I think the issue with attempting to tell the stories of people outside of your culture is that you put your own beliefs as more important than or ahead of the beliefs of those inside the culture. ..."

For June, though, I think she very much positions the idea of "universality" = white people/culture. It's symptomatic of white supremacy that she assumes that anything not immediately relatable to her = biased/foreign etc. and her audience (assumedly white people - let's be real, when she imagines her readers, are they Chinese?) to have the same viewpoint/cultural assumptions as her.

Has anyone read this authors previous books Babel or The Poppy War or any others?

ENTIRE BOOK OPEN

What are your thoughts on the book? What rating did you give it?

“She’d stolen my story. I was convinced of it. She’d stolen my words right out of my mouth. She did the same to everyone around her for the entirety of her career, and honestly, if I’m supposed to feel bad about getting my revenge then fuck that.”

Did Athena steal Juniper’s story? She seems to feel justified in what she did in return.

I think Juniper was telling herself anything to feel justified in what she did because she absolutely knew she was wrong for it.

I rated the book a 4 because I really appreciated the irony and how it was almost like breaking the fourth wall. I felt like I was part of that world bc it is this world.

What stood out most to me and what I kept asking myself is what makes a book a great book? Is it because it’s on the NYT bestseller list or your fave celebrity endorses it? Is it because you read it and you were engaged and the writing was amazing? Is it because it has high ratings in Goodreads? Numbers can be made up and then dictate what’s popular and gets exposure. It makes me think how much of my choices are me thinking for myself and how much are my choices influenced? I won’t lie; one of the reasons I read this book was because it was rated highly on Goodreads. I finished it because I enjoyed the ride. I’ve chosen other books that were popular Goodreads and finished them even though I didn’t like them because everyone else loved it and I wanted to know what the hype was about. Now I’m wondering how much those numbers were played with.

I was engrossed with all the social media talk in the book. There was quite a bit of it. Goodreads, Twitter, Instagram, et al…June spent so much time on social media wondering what others thought of the book. Why do you think people like June are so obsessed with social media? I’m always impressed with those authors who are not on social media at all: Zadie Smith, Haruki Murakami., Michael Lewis, Leila Slimani - did I miss anyone?

ColumbusReads wrote: "June spent do much time on social media wondering what others thought of the book. Why do you think people like June are so obsessed with social media?"

as an author, you need a good image. but i think this is an instant of which june unconsciously reveals that she knows what she's going is wrong. she's wary and lurking online for the first sign, she acts and is anxious about it like a guilty person. and that's bcs she knows deep down. if she genuinely thought this was her work, she wouldn't lurking wondering if someone "caught" up to her scheme - there would be nothing to be caught about. she wouldn't worry about her image if it's her authetic one.

Yellowface..the play..Premiering on PBS tonight 5/16/25. Most likely plenty of additional showings..

William wrote: "Yellowface..the play..Premiering on PBS tonight 5/16/25. Most likely plenty of additional showings.."

Thank you for the heads up!

I didn't enjoy the book as much as I had hoped but the premise was so good it felt like a great property for adaptation.