Tournament of Books discussion

Here’s the post:
https://www.tournamentofbooks.com/the...

And the spreadsheet updated:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...

If folks don’t mind, we can use this to discuss the book until the bracket is lit, when we’ll set up the pairings with separate threads.

Great idea - thank you!

I'd love to get a list of books people have liked on audio. I started Orbital at work but couldn't focus on it. I did pick up The History of Sound today to try on audio (I tend to like short stories on audio better).

Emily wrote: "I'd love to get a list of books people have liked on audio. I started Orbital at work but couldn't focus on it. I did pick up The History of Sound today to try on audio (I tend to like short storie..."

A friend told me today that Orbital did not work at all for her in audio. It's a short book, so it shouldn't take too much time to read. I took my time with it, though. The descriptions are worth pausing over.

So far I’ve done Beautyland, Liars, and Margo’s Got Money Problems on audio and they all worked in that format for me. Particularly loved Margo, it’s narrated by Elle Fanning.

My husband did Orbital on audio and hated it.

Margo's Got Money Troubles and The History of Sound are both solid on audio.

Orbital is hard to focus on in print as well.

Margo is great on audio. I thought All Fours was good as audio although I didn't like the book as much as Margo.

I looked up The Extinction of Irina Rey on AudioFile and their review was quite critical of the audiobook narrator. It was unusual, because they generally bend over backwards to give positive reviews. So I’ll be doing this one in print.

About an hour into the audio of Extinction of Irena Rey and I can tell audio isn’t going to work for me. Seems like there are multiple complex narrators but only one audio reader so I’m going to get lost. I’ll pick up a physical copy at the library instead. YMMV!

I'm abandoning my =Great Expectations= unless someone can explain its merits to me. I want to save some of this thunder for the Tournament proper (maybe you unfortunate readers will have to skip past the re-run), but one wonders that there were any commas or dashes left for any other books in 2024. It seems, and I say this - without apology, too - despite having only read, in the course of one morning - cold and sunny, though what bearing that may have had is unclear - the opening chapter, an unnatural, or at the very least, excessive, fondness for that punctuation. Maybe all those commas to capture the cadence of the candidate, and me too tone deaf to hear it?

Also, what is the point of naming some of the famous people in the novel (e.g., Cornell West) and not naming the most famous person in the novel (the Senator and candidate from Illinois)? I get why one might want to name names, and I get why one might not want to, but I can't quite figure out what purpose it serves to name some, but be so deliberately coy about the other, particularly when there is no doubt who that black presidential candidate is supposed to be (not that I intend to spoil it for you readers who haven't started the book yet!).

Vinson Cunningham appears to wink at us about this naming of names:

My friend Paul wrestled and studied languages and literature "in New Jersey," as he called it. Everybody knew immediately, in spite of - indeed because of - his embarrassed euphemism, that he meant Princeton, but, still, it made him feel better not to have to say the name.

Which, okay, but then why name the others? (I'm open to being enlightened on this account. It's obviously a deliberate choice on his part, but it is like saying "I got my B.A. at Yale, and now I'm completing my Ph.D. in New Jersey," which, I dunno, seems not entirely coherent.) (Also, please note, 7 commas and dashes in that last quoted sentence just so the author could be sure that we knew what "Everybody knew immediately.")

Maybe that's just butternut squash ravioli. But I'm giving up for now all the same.

I’ve done All Fours, Beautyland, Colored Television, Headshot, Margo’s Got Money Troubles, and parts of Orbital on audio. All I thought were good quality audiobooks, though that doesn’t necessarily translate to me having enjoyed all of the books.

Two stories into Rejection and wow, what a kick to the head? This book is punching Sally Rooney's millennial voice books in the throat. It's a car accident I can't look away from. I love it.

Oh gosh I’m adoring Colored Television.

Also I just noticed there are more than your average titles in this list with the words “The Book of” in the title!

The problem with trying to cram a bunch of Tournament reading into a short amount of time is that the books are too much in conversation with each other.

Normally I'd call that a good thing. But, for example, one of the books featuring a child who is an alien from another planet is so much better than the other that it is hard to enjoy the other on its own terms.

And then, having finished yesterday a book that was definitely drugs, I've started and abandoned three shortlisters that are obviously sugar pills. Maybe if I had read those three first, I would have had more patience for them. But all I want now is more reading that is drugs.

Tim wrote: "The problem with trying to cram a bunch of Tournament reading into a short amount of time is that the books are too much in conversation with each other.

Normally I'd call that a good thing. But, ..."




Which book was drugs???

And what's the second book with a kid who's an alien? Beautyland & ??

I want to be coy about the drugs for just a little longer, till I'm ready to talk about that book. It's still coursing through my blood.

But here's the second alien:

Finn had another explanation for his behaviors. he told Jane about it when she was stroking his back late at night, in the darkness of Max's bedroom, surrounded by Max's toys, with Max's star stickers glowing above them, that he was from another planet. Finn told her he remembered his home planet so clearly. One day he'd fallen asleep, and the next he woke to find himself living in a strange bright place, being held by strangers who called him by the wrong name. His name was not Finn. It was We. He wanted them to call him We. He said the people in this new land spoke a language he could not understand. He said the ground in this new land felt like spikes cutting into his feet, and this was why he walked on his tiptoes.

(=Colored Television=, my second favorite so far, out of 8 finished and 3 ... paused.)

Tim, I agree it's a little strange to have two baby alien books in the tournament. I have raved about Beautyland here but I think I love Colored Television more, so far. Less pure whimsy, and more pure humor.

I was going through the shortlist to record estimated page lengths so that I could prioritize my reading, and I noticed something wild..

Five books on the shortlist have 272 pages (according to the main book page on GR).

Liars
The Book Censor's Library
Great Expectations
Rejection
Someone Like Us

I know it means not much (and GR is hardly ever accurate on page counts), but it tickled my brain this morning.

Emily wrote: "I was going through the shortlist to record estimated page lengths so that I could prioritize my reading, and I noticed something wild..

Five books on the shortlist have 272 pages (according to th..."

Other than the long@$$ 'Book of Love', most of these books on the short list do seem fairly on the shorter side of page count this year. hmm.

I really thought Martyr! was longer. I checked it out from the library a few months ago but never got around to reading it, and I thought it was much longer than it is, apparently.

Martyr! -352
Beautyland - 336
All Fours - 336
Liars - 272
The Book Censor's Library - 272
The Book of George - 288
The Book of Love - 628
Colored Television - 277
The Extinction of Irena Rey - 320
Great Expectations - 272
Headshot - 224
Orbital - 207
Rejection - 272
Someone Like Us - 272

(I don't have Margo, James, History of Sound, or Wedding People on this list because I've already read them.)

Emily wrote: "... Five books on the shortlist have 272 pages ..."


I noticed that too. There must be a publishing reason. What is magical about 272??

Nadine in NY wrote: "Emily wrote: "... Five books on the shortlist have 272 pages ..."


I noticed that too. There must be a publishing reason. What is magical about 272??"

I think what is magical is that you can divide it by 16… which is the number of pages you get (with folding) from a certain size of paper often used in printing books.

Given the talk about Book of Love being a bit too long... can we think of any TOB books that did actually earn their (extreme) length? Off the top of my head, probably Wolf Hall and The Luminaries...

Lizzy wrote: "Nadine in NY wrote: "Emily wrote: "... Five books on the shortlist have 272 pages ..."


I noticed that too. There must be a publishing reason. What is magical about 272??"

I think what is magical is that you can divide it by 16… which is the number of pages you get (with folding) from a certain size of paper often used in printing books...."



Thank you! I knew it must be something like that, but I am ignorant about publishing and printing.

Kyle wrote: "Given the talk about Book of Love being a bit too long... can we think of any TOB books that did actually earn their (extreme) length? Off the top of my head, probably Wolf Hall and The Luminaries..."

I loved every page of The Bee Sting!

Kyle wrote: "Given the talk about Book of Love being a bit too long... can we think of any TOB books that did actually earn their (extreme) length? Off the top of my head, probably Wolf Hall and The Luminaries..."

Version Control!
Also: The Son, The Overstory, Milkman, The Orphan Master's Son, Skippy Dies, Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norell... and the most obvious one...... Cloud Atlas. but then this is just turning into a ToB favorites list... good to know The Luminaries is worth it! Birnam Wood I was recently meh about.

Also, Philipp Meyer (of The Son) has a new book being released shortly... can't wait.

Oh yeah? That's awesome, I loved The Son.

I second every long book mentioned so far and, looking at my shelves, I'll add Barkskins, Sacred Hunger and A Suitable Boy. I also felt that way about Infinite Jest when I read it nearly 20 years ago, but don't know if I'd feel the same today.

As a The Luminaries hater, its first round upset loss to a book by an author who didn't even want to be part of the ToB is one of my favorite chaotic Tournament moments of all time.

I did love Birnam Wood, though, so maybe C will have the opposite experience that I had.

I thought that The Nix was a great one for the worthy long book tournament hall of fame.

Babel, Breasts and Eggs, Book of Form and Emptiness, Bee Sting… all books I liked butttt could probably have been just as effective with some major cuts. Just my opinion.

I mean, I'm not gonna lie, I love a big fat book to get lost in for days or weeks. (I do read epic fantasy, after all.) It becomes a little trickier if you're aiming to fit 18 books into a 90-ish day span, though.

Rejection is a lightning read if you need get one in before the end of the year.

Rejection is Fight Club for millennials.

Much to my surprise, Lev Grossman's The Bright Sword was worth every word for me! And I'll second The Bee Sting.

I've got my eye on Bright Sword - I was a little turned off on the Magicians series once they used SA as a plot device in the second book, but I'm willing to give Grossman another shot.

Lark wrote: "Tim, I agree it's a little strange to have two baby alien books in the tournament. ..."

And two birthmark novels....

Nadine in NY wrote: "Which book was drugs??? ..."

=Liars=. Whew! I had all of Jane's rage coursing through my blood, and could not put the book down. Even when some rational voice in my head was saying "well, wait a minute here, Jane isn't without sin..." it couldn't make itself heard above the storm.

So far, it's the only novel of the 9 I've read (and 3 I've tasted and set aside) that provoked such an intense and visceral response. The NPR review says "It's a tour de force, but it is also relentless." And that's the best short description of it I can imagine. The New Yorker Review (which seems to feel that John didn't get a fair hearing, missing, I think, the point) says this true thing: "the novel is not so much the story of the slow implosion of a marriage over the years as it is the black box found amid its wreckage."

I'm still smouldering from that read. Loved it.

I am kind of curious how The Wedding People became so big. It's not like "Notes on Your Sudden Disappearance" was a smash hit, so why are there 100+ holds on TWP at the library, and it won Goodreads Choice? Was it BookTok'd? Did Jenna, Oprah, or Reese pick it up?

Kyle wrote: "I am kind of curious how The Wedding People became so big. It's not like "Notes on Your Sudden Disappearance" was a smash hit, so why are there 100+ holds on TWP at the library, and it won Goodread..."

Yep, Jenna's book club did.

Kyle wrote: "I am kind of curious how The Wedding People became so big. It's not like "Notes on Your Sudden Disappearance" was a smash hit, so why are there 100+ holds on TWP at the library, and it won Goodread..."

Oh, shoot, I hadn't realized the same author wrote those books. I think I liked NoYSD a lot. Now really looking forward to Wedding People

Bob wrote: "Oh, shoot, I hadn't realized the same author wrote those books. I think I liked NoYSD a lot. Now really looking forward to Wedding People.."

I'm just now realizing that I've been totally rejecting the idea of reading this novel based solely on its silly cover.

Notes was a standout 5 star for me, but Wedding People was a bit flat (probably because my expectations were SO HIGH). Gave it 4 stars but still.

Lark wrote: "I'm just now realizing that I've been totally rejecting the idea of reading this novel based solely on its silly cover..."

One of the things that I'm interested in, in a desultory fashion, is just how sophisticated book cover design has gotten. It's way out-stripped language in defining genres, at least for the big publishers.

Which is my way of saying that in the abstract, you aren't entirely wrong.

And also my opening for saying that I was looking forward to =Wedding People= (because, like Bob, I liked Espach's last one) and so didn't pay any attention to the cover art. But having started it, in this concrete case, you may not be entirely wrong either.

I think the cover of The Wedding People conveys the story held within. That cover tells me I'm getting something akin to women's fiction and/or the cartoon cover rom-coms that have inundated the market just a bit more literary than an Emily Henry. And, that is what the book is. MMV on how much you enjoy the book and what you take away from it.

I mean, when it comes to covers, nothing is gonna beat those for the Neapolitan Novel series...

Amanda wrote: "the cartoon cover rom-coms that have inundated the market..."

Margo's Got Money Trouble has a great cartoony rom-com cover but I'm only 10% in yet and it doesn't feel rom-commy...yet? I'm enjoying it though.

Speaking of Wedding People's cover, it reminds of that Mountain Goats song "No Children":

"...I am drowning
There is no sign of land
You are coming down with me
Hand in unlovable hand
And I hope you die
I hope we both die"

Also, both apparently are gonna be adapted.

Margo is definitely not rom-commy!

Emily wrote: "Margo is definitely not rom-commy!"

I haven't read it yet (although it is in the "looking forward to it" pile and not the "I'm determined to be a completist" pile) so I'll take your word for it, provisionally. But that makes one wonder....

Either the author deliberately requested that kind of a cover - maybe she just likes the aesthetic - or, perhaps, the publishers were deliberately marketing the book to the crowd that buys the kind of books that have that kind of cover.

A publisher certainly wants to attract a big buying audience, but if all your "word of mouth" publicity is from readers who didn't like and weren't expecting the kind of book they got, it feels like a pretty bad risk for the author and the publisher for some whatever minor gains are had. (You wouldn't expect a lot of positive notice on Goodreads if you stuck an Epic Fantasy cover on =To The Lighthouse=. Which isn't to say that someone looking for fantasy can't appreciate modernism, just that it is reasonable to assume that a lot of readers will feel deceived and will take it out on the book.)

One could imagine a "bugs bunny" book - marketed to one kind of reader but with enough between the lines to satisfy another. Or one could imagine the publisher wasn't paying that much attention. (Or maybe the publisher had already bought the cover art for some other aborted purpose, and wanted to get their money's worth out of it. There can be many unexpected reasons.)

I'm not trying to make more out of this than there is, but I see a lot of book covers, and so I see a lot of patterns in book covers, and I've become interested in semiotics of it. If the cover shows a woman from behind (maybe two, maybe with a child), staring off into the distance, while planes are just visible in the sky beyond her, you're going to expect a certain kind of novel.

These are (mostly) deliberate choices being made in the context of the existing book cover genre marketing. It is reasonable to attribute some kind of meaning to the choice.

Well, there have been MANY face-down-on-couch covers lately...