You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

A few of us have expressed an interest in reading The Wager: A Tale of Shipwreck, Mutiny and Murder. Any and all are welcome to discuss it with us.

How does the latter part of January or even February work?

Would this fit the Pirate theme for the yearly challenge do you think? I have access to the audiobook

The second half of January could work. I will be gone the first week in February, so could start after the 9th.

Sarah wrote: "Would this fit the Pirate theme for the yearly challenge do you think? I have access to the audiobook"

I don't think so. It's more about mutiny.

I'm open for either dates Jayme. Let's just wait a bit for others to weigh in.

Janice wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Would this fit the Pirate theme for the yearly challenge do you think? I have access to the audiobook"

I don't think so. It's more about mutiny."

OK, no worries. I might still join in anyway as it sounds interesting

I'd like to join. I still don't have reading plans for next year, so I adjust.

I'm planning my January reads, and will fit The Wager in starting around Jan 20 if that works for everyone else.

Works for me.

I've marked it in my calendar.

I've got it penciled in for Jan 20th :)

Perfect!

That date is fine with me too,

Oh good!

I’ve started this. The preface definitely peaked my interest. The first chapter is a bit slow going which is to be expected as it’s setting the scene.

(view spoiler)[Interesting how there wasn’t conscription but they were ok with kidnapping men and forcing them onto ships. I was expecting some to be criminals as I knew that they could escape prison or transportation by enlisting. But not that men who were old/ill/disabled were also sent onto ships. (hide spoiler)]

Grann mentions the Royal Hospital in Chelsea and the Chelsea pensioners. The hospital and the pensioners still exist today. The Chelsea Pensioners and their uniforms are pretty famous in London.

More info on the hospital: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_H...
and the Pensioners: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea...

Will be starting this Monday or Tuesday :)

That sounds intriguing Lori. I'll have a bit of research to do once I get started. It will likely be Tuesday for me since I have about 2 hours left in my current audiobook. But, do continue Lori, we'll be with you in no time.

I'll probably start on Tuesday too.

No problem ladies. I will be taking it slow.

That was fascinating reading, Lori. Henry receives a "pension" since he retired from the military. I just informed him about the meaning of the word and now he wants to take my book and read it. I told him to "stand in line soldier".

I presume Henry is your hubby? You'll be able to discuss it with him once you're both finished.

I'm starting the book today.

I would love to join in but probably cannot start until after the weekend

Yes, Henry is my hubby. He is retired navy. I won't be able to get to the book until tomorrow. I have a little bit more to read in my current book, but will finish tonight.

I plan to start today at bedtime. I am so tired I'm not sure how much I will read, but I'm really looking forward to it.

I read just past chapter 1.

(view spoiler)[I was shocked that people would be kidnapped to serve on these ships, some so old or infirm that they wouldn't survive.

I think the first chapter sets up the explanation as to the circumstances of the men forced to become the crew. It makes it understandable that people under these circumstances might consider mutiny.

I thought this was a novel when I first bought the audiobook, but was surprised to learn it was non-fiction. The author narrates the book himself and so far is doing a bang up job. (hide spoiler)]

Marie (UK) wrote: "I would love to join in but probably cannot start until after the weekend"

Join in when you can.

This is my 4th book by David Grann. I’ve enjoyed them all so far. His books are full of information but still easy to read.

Chapters 2&3

(view spoiler)[I wasn’t expecting an ancestor of Byron to pop up.

Grann is really good at setting the scene and helping you to get to know some of the people on the ship.

You can definitely see why there would be a mutiny:

Men forced to be on the ship some of whom are ill or disabled.
Senior officers in place due to social status and connections rather than experience.
Experienced men with no hope of promotion taking orders from those with less knowledge and experience.
Illness sweeping the ship and men dying.
The threat of the Spanish ships.
And now the prospect of the perilous trip round the horn.

I was surprised at how many phrases commonly in use here in the UK that have nautical origins. (hide spoiler)]

Janice wrote: "I read just past chapter 1.

I'm at about the same stage in the book as you are, Janice.
I agree, (view spoiler)[it would seem counterproductive to kidnap sick, old, infirm men who wouldn't be able to actually work on the ship. Was it just to fill a quota? What would be the point? I've watched lots of old movies that involved ships where members of the "real" crew were sent out to find/Shanghai more sailors to fill out the crew. What an awful practice. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 1

(view spoiler)[I think that putting old, sick, etc men on the ships was mostly box ticking as they needed a certain number for the crew. It didn’t seem to matter that they would be of no or little help. And the local authorities could get rid of people they saw as a drain on society as these men would have been on the lower scale of society if not destitute.

It’s the hypocrisy. Conscription was seen as being too intrusive into people’s lives (there was great debate on the matter when it was introduced during the First World War). However, it was ok to kidnap people. (hide spoiler)]

LoriLovesBooks wrote: "Chapter 1
."

It really was a horrible practice (view spoiler)[ I was telling Henry (husband) about that section in chapter 1 - he's retired navy - and he said that the only way that enlisted could make rank back in the day was to press other men into service. The more men you brought the higher rank and pay you could get. Which is why a lot of times the meanest, biggest, and cruelest sailors were highest in rank (hide spoiler)]

I'm at the beginning of chapter 4. The chapters are quite long. I don't like to stop mid chapter, but there's something like a half hour left in this one.

(view spoiler)[I like that we are learning the history behind some of the colloquialisms we use - like 3 sheets to the wind, and turning a blind eye, etc. How often do we walk around using these sayings without knowing their origin.

I'm not a huge fan of non fiction. Since I thought this was a fictional retelling of a true tale, my expectations are a little off. I find non fiction a little dry. David Grann does a great job and maybe it will get more intriguing now that I'm in part 2. (hide spoiler)]

LoriLovesBooks wrote: "This is my 4th book by David Grann. I’ve enjoyed them all so far. His books are full of information but still easy to read.

Chapters 2&3

I wasn’t expecting an ancestor of Byron t..."

I felt much the same way about (view spoiler)[ the recognizable names like Byron. I also thought the discussion about them not having the knowledge to cure diptheria or even knew what it was. (hide spoiler)]

Jayme wrote: "LoriLovesBooks wrote: "Chapter 1
."

It really was a horrible practice [spoilers removed]"

It's really interesting to hear Henry's point of view. Having been in the navy, he can have an insider's view so to speak.

Janice wrote: "I'm at the beginning of chapter 4. The chapters are quite long. I don't like to stop mid chapter, but there's something like a half hour left in this one.

I like that we are learning the history b..."

I also like that we are learning the history behind (view spoiler)[some of the colloquialisms we use. I have been reading a lot of this to Henry - he probably won't have to read it :) - and he was telling me where other colloquialisms came from. The phrase "cold enough to freeze the balls off of a brass monkey" is a naval phrase. A brass monkey was a brass holder with round divots that held cannon balls. Cannon balls are made of iron. When it got really cold the brass monkey would constrict popping the cannon balls off of the tray. That's how sailors knew it was below freezing prior to the invention of the thermometer. (hide spoiler)]

That's awesome that Henry augments the book, adding additional tidbits.

Jayme wrote: "I also like that we are learning the history behind (view spoiler)"

That is really interesting. I love to know the origin of popular sayings.

Just started chapter 4 and (view spoiler)[ was surprised when he was discussing the problems with longitude lines and mentioned John Harrison who invented the chronometer to determine longitude at sea. The book that I nominated for our February group read Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of His Time is about him. It seems like a seafaring reading year for me. (hide spoiler)] lol

I've read to the end of Chapter 9

(view spoiler)[They are now shipwrecked and castaway. The captain is injured with a compound fracture. The crew is turning on him.

I can see resentment building, fueled by the knowledge if they aren't on duty, they don't get paid.

I like how passionate David Grann gets as he reads this book. (hide spoiler)]

Jayme wrote: "Just started chapter 4 and [spoilers removed] lol"

What a lovely coincidence!

I am listening to this on Audio and have really only just managed the first few pages but I loved this quote

"we emerge as heroes of our stories so that we can live with what we have done"

That is a great quote, Marie. And so true!

That's a great quote.

To the end of Chapter 15.

(view spoiler)[ There's section about how the native people arrived on back on the island with their long boats and provisions. It struck me as odd how the "civilized" men were in dire straights - starving and displaying tendencies towards anarchy - and the indigenous people were self sufficient. Why is there such a dichotomy between them? How is the the indigenous people devised a means of survival, and learned men could not?

This was also the case with other events in history. When Franklin's ships were trapped in ice in the Arctic, his men showed devolution of society eventually starving to death. They were reliant on the Inuit for aid.

It appears that in both cases, the indigenous people washed their hands of them and left them to their fates. (hide spoiler)]

Janice wrote: "To the end of Chapter 15.

..."

Not only that (view spoiler)[ but how they treated the indigenous people who were helping them. Trying to sexually assault the women and considering them "savages." They were right to leave in the middle of the night and let the castaways fend for themselves. (hide spoiler)]

I finished the book and found it fascinating. The last half went very fast. I found it interesting (view spoiler)[ everyone's different take on the events of the shipwreck and life on the island and how the judges didn't want to open up the "can of worms" (now I wonder where that colloquium came from) of a deep investigation.
I'm glad I read it, but it wasn't my favorite of his books. (hide spoiler)]

I have just finished Chapter 2 - I was also amazed at how they got the men for their crew.
(view spoiler)[Also found the idea of someone asking to leave the ships due to being unwell - my brother was a chef in the Merchant Navy suffered dreadfully from sea sickness had to have injections daily but as they were on the way to the Falklands leaving was never an option. Cheep has got his Captaincy - interested to see how all the moves affect the outcomes. (hide spoiler)]

I'm resuming this one today. I'm only in chapter 1! I was planning to start last Tuesday but life got really crazy. It seems my husband has arthritis in his neck, which is not great of course, but it took many days to know what was going on. He woke up one morning in acute pain in his right shoulder and arm. After a couple of hours his hand started to get numb and weak. If it had been his left one I would have call 911 thinking he was having a heart attack. On top of everything he had fever (unrelated, just a cold) but this didn't help to know what was going on. We were scared, really. Now everything is almost back to normal. Of course he is still in pain (better controlled now), but compared with everything we imagined during the days it took to have a diagnose it is nothing. And compared to being in a shipwreck is also nothing! So back to my book. :)

Marie (UK) wrote: "I have just finished Chapter 2 - I was also amazed at how they got the men for their crew.
[spoilers removed]

I am loving the narration but may switch between book (on Everand) and Audio otherwis..."

Take however long you need to read the book.

Sandra wrote: "I'm resuming this one today. I'm only in chapter 1! I was planning to start last Tuesday but life got really crazy. It seems my husband has arthritis in his neck, which is not great of course, but ..."

Oh I feel for him, literally. An ER doc told me my neck was "loaded with arthritis".